Kate, Mary Roslin-Williams made the observation about the elbows on American Labradors compared to the British more than 30 years ago in April, 1976. I think that point should be made clear.

The first solid, factual and sane comment in this thread. Thank you MSW.

"I'm already following Chris Zink's lead
about exercise for my babies."

Kate, could you elaborate on this please, i.e. age, frequency, and type of exercise? Thanks.

Margaret, Do you think that things are different now
than 30 years ago in regard to elbows? I actually have heard judges make similar comments now about "out at the elbows." Of course, I have also heard judges talk about being "tied in" at the elbows and talk about straight shoulders and rears, which I may also play a role in elbow overloading.

But I wasn't actually implying that MRWs comments about elbows sticking out were the "clue" to understanding elbow issues but more that elbow structure in the context of the whole body and even whole dog was the "clue." She has written about evaluating the whole dog several
times and about overall soundness.

Kate

Maria, What age baby are you wanting? At the moment,
my mind is stuck at 3-16 week olds. But I am planning ahead for the next several months in which I have the litter. I talked with Chris about what we're doing, and she thought it appropriate for puppies we're raising.

We have constructed tiny agility equipment (e.g., dog walk, tunnels, teeter boards, stairs for climbing) that has safety built into it by virtue of its size
and safety rails. No falls really possible. We also start swimming lessons in our pond, which we constructed so that puppies could walk into the water easily; we block use of the dock.

Their agility equipment play areas are packed sand, easy for walking but still soft for falling. (They also like to dig in the sand). They also have a grassed play area. No concrete or asphalt anywhere.

Puppies are supervised most of their time outdoors,
and we enforce some rest times so no one can get
overtired.

We continue this approach with the litter for the
four months we have them and then continue with the ones we keep. Weather permitting, we encourage
swimming in order to discourage high-impact activities on the ground.

Until they are about 9 months old, the only leash walking we do is in the house or a round pen. We can
practice the skill of being on a leash without actually walking them. They never need to walk on
leash. Chris recommended waiting until puppies are
at least 6 months old before walking them on leash; we find that 9 month is a better time to start from a training standpoint. No running on leash until 24 months old. We never ever try to
"tire out" a puppy. We restrict the amount of exercise so that the puppy never gets very tired; lots of injuries occur when animals are tired

We monitor puppy weights regularly by weighing and
correcting food amounts so that they don't grow too fast.

We do lots and lots of supervision of play. I don't just turn them out to play alone, any more than I
would let small children play unsupervised on a playground. No playing with large older dogs unless
we are mighty sure about how the older dog will
interact with the puppies. We have one large male
who is exceptionally careful with puppies and helps
us with swimming lessons by letting the puppies
ride him and use him like a life preserver.

Puppies are most vulnerable to injuries before growth
plates are closed (and there are growth plates in the bones of the elbows just like other places) and joints
(ligaments, tendons, etc.) are forming. Growth plates
close at different times throughout the body; my
understanding is that the elbow joint is most
vulnerable in the first 6 months to injury during
growth.

I'm putting together stuff for puppy exercise as
I learn it. I've consulted Chris and another
rehab specialist and a vet orthopedist at the
vet school in our area. I've taken some
weekend courses from Chris as well. My current
area of interest is elbows so I'm going to do another
round of consultations this fall about elbows.

Who do you think is going to get the last word?

Who knows? This whole thread has taught me never to try arbitration again. I have learned my lesson.

Elbow replacement surgery for dogs with arthritic ED.

http://petloverstips.com/ForTheLoveoftheDog/news-updates/dog-undergoes-rare-surgery-for-arthritis-video

Thanks so much for posting this video. Amazing stuff.
I sure hope that others see it because it sounds like
they are still enrolling dogs for the clinical
trials. Perhaps you should post this on another
thread so that it gets the attention it deserves.

Again, thanks for the post. I'm going to call this
guy so that I can talk to him about elbows generally.

Kate