The people on PRH website who are asking 10 to 15 thousand for their horses must think they're made of gold, because their horses certainly aren't worth the money! I know as I have looked at several of them.

If you are looking for a rope horse, I have a bay roan stud, very pretty, finished heel horse. AQHA point earner, very nice. Steve Orth will be showing him at Fort Worth this month. He is the real deal. 15,000 Definitly worth the money. Pictures available,

have not looked at your horse and am not saying he isn't worth the money, just saying at least several of the advertised high dollar horses on the PRH are worth about 30 cents a pound!, old adage buyer beware applies here.

I haven't personally looked at any on this website yet, but I've looked at enough on other websites to agree with you. I'm a serious buyer in the under 15k range for just a very WELL BROKE young gelding well started on barrels and showing promise, that just needs some seasoning. EVERYTHING I've looked at in that price range has had problems and only worth about 1/2 or less of the asking price. Most of them have no feel, aren't broke enough to even be running barrels, or sore. I know I will never drive out of state to look at ANYTHING. Either people just lie, or they are clueless.

I don't know who you are 'D' because you don't leave your name, but I noticed a little further down the message board you were complaining about the website not working and now you are complaining about horse prices. Maybe you have forgotten, or maybe you never have put in all the time and effort to make a really broke/finished horse. If you did it yourself, you might have a better understanding of what are worth. It is my experience that most people want something for nothing and you don't sound any different. But who really cares what someone is asking for their horse?! If you don't like him don't buy him.

Penny, I know where a patterned barrel horse is that might be in your price range. I trained her myself for a client who is wanting to sell her. I dodn't know where you are located, but the mare is in TN. Look at www.crosscreekrodeo.com to see her breeding.

Zac, well i did not want to start any disagreements, especially with any good horse trainers, and yes I know the time, work, and wet saddle blankets it takes to make a good one and I am willing to pay the price, but since you have taken issue with the old adage of "buyer beware", lets go over it a little bit.
1. The website owners (which is a for profit enterprise) does not guarantee the horses for sale. If they do I would like to know that.
2. Most sellers will not guarantee their for sale horses.
3.If the sellers will not guarantee their horses I would not buy them.
4.At my stage of the game my next horse must be gentle, and this is where some of my problems come from, that and the description and promises of a good gentle sound and solid ranch/roping horse which turns out not to be true. I could tell you several stories that have happened to me recently that would make you laugh and make you cuss horse traders at the same time. Some of these folks are giving the rest of the good horse people a bad reputation.
5.I have seen many ads for your horses on the website, I have never looked at your horses. Usually they are either too old or too young.
I have noticed your two 5 year olds in the tripping section. I have been a mile or two and it has been my observation in life that normally you don't find finished tripping horses until they are at least 8 to 10 years old minimum. The best ones are usually 12 to 20.
If you have two 5 year old finished tripping horses Zac, then certainly they are worth your asking price
and then some.
6. Do you guarantee your horses?
Thanks
D.

D,

The word guarantee can mean a variety of things, but in a nutshell, yes. They will be like I say and anyone is welcome to come try them. Situations vary widely, but I have sent alot of horses home with people without payment for a trial period with a no questions asked return. One thing that can't be guarateed is whether or not someone will get along with them long term, and what the horse really is boils down to a difference or opinion alot of times. A really nice broke horse to me might be a dink to you for some reason and vice-versa.

(As far as tripping horses go, you are right about the age. These 2 are not finished arena tripping horses, but both have had hundereds busted on them on the grass and have the tools in place to do it.)

What are you looking for in a horse, exactly.

I had a man call me from S.Texas,looking for a calf horse I knew where a nice one was a friend of mine had him and he was a good one.The man told me he had been 1200 mi and looked at them from 5,000 to 15,000 and not one was in any way what was represented.The 15,000 horse was lame and then wouldn't go in the box.He bought our horse.
and still has him.It is always been like that though horses are for sale and a lot of times it is for a reason other than this is what I do get them ready and sell.I had a trader come to my house and tell me he had a yellow calf horse and he was the best he ever saw.Wanted 5,000 for him so he brings him over he cribs baaaad on the trailer the fence.And believe it or not he managed to get the rope in his mouth and went to suckin on that.Long story short he wasn't no kinda roping horse.It always has been and always will be buyer beware.You will go through a ton of them before you will get a decent one and several semi loads before you get a good one.Makes it tuff on the rest of the world though.A few tips if the ad says needs and experienced rider,or wants to go and really loves to run barrels or what ever.He is a dead center run away.Or can buck off Billy Etbauer.If they are vague about any information just say thanks and go on.Common sence when a red flag goes up,pull a Hank Snow and be movin on.What are you looking for.I live in Ok.Amd we raise em.Thanks Ronny

I just had to put my two cents in here. First off, I agree with Zac, you better be carefull with a guarantee. It can mean different things to different people. The best course of action, is to get references. Somebody usually knows somebody who knows somebody who bought a horse form the guy you are trying to do business with. Another thing, Mr. D, as far as I am concerned half the people out there don't know what a good horse is. I once had a guy drag my name through the mud because he wasn't cowboy enough to handle the horse that I sold him with full disclosure. As for Zac's horses, I would bet that they are just what he says they are. I bought a horse from him, and she was just as he represented her.

I'm in the OK/TX area. Any further and they'll have to be in this area where I can watch them and try them. I won't buy a mare...period. I can finish a horse, just no time to start one, so I want a horse that is really well broke, soft and supple, respectful. I will pay up to 15k. Prefer 4-7 yrs. old. I've been on a bunch, and I know exactly the feel I want. Most horses advertised waller in the bit, have no feel, root their noses, are too lazy, crib, bleed, cheat the turn, crooked legs, bad feet, awful conformation, whatever. They are for sale for a bunch of reasons that I don't want to deal with. I just started my search a couple months ago, and I hope I can find something by April. You absolutely can't believe what I've looked at. They have to far enough along to go exhibition at a jackpot. All I want to see is a correct, honest pattern with room to improve with speed, and one that knows how to use their rear end correctly.

I would have to agree that there are people out there that have horses in that price range that aren't worth that much money by far, but I also know of many horses that are worth that much. I have owned, sold and trained plenty expensive horses.

Penny I have a really nice colt that is ready to start on barrels. E-mail me if you want more info. I'm asking $5500.

Penny,

We have a really nice super broke gelding. He has all the buttons. If you want to talk about him, email me or give me a call at 515-230-4689. He is NOT a waste of time. Thanks

To Holly....Is your colt ready to haul and exhibition? If not, I don't have the time to start one at home first. I want a horse that I can put in the trailer this weekend and make a decent exhibition run on. Penny

I will call you when I get to a place where I can come and watch your horse run at a jackpot. Right now, we are knee deep in ice and off and on electricity. Where do you take your horse to run? I have some questions for you. I don't want to waste your time until this weather clears up.

If you want to give us a call I will give you the details on where and what he has done. 515-230-4689. I am sending out videos this week of him, people must have got that tax money back already? A lot of interest lately. He is listed on this site. We are in Winterset, IA. Thanks!

I can understand your stance on this point. I looked for a heading horse for 7 months over about 10 states. Everyone has "just what your looking for" and everyone thinks their horse is the best.
You just have to find one that fits you and it will take sometime and some wornout truck tires. I looked at over 20 horses and only 2 were worth what they were asking, by my standards! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

I said I wasn't going to get in on this but because i have had similiar experiences, thought I would share them. I had Team Roped for about 8yrs when I decided to start Calf Roping. Drove from Heaven to Hell looking for a good solid horse too and like "D" stated earlier, everyone had a horse that would fit "ANYONE". Well needless to say they were totally untruthful. I ended up finding the best horse i've ever owned by accident, and he cost me $25,000. Now did I have $25,000 to spend on a horse, NO! But I scraped around and sold 4 good roping horses I had and still ended up having to go to the bank to borrow the rest to get him. Now three years later I get a new job (Salary) and nolonger have time to go anywhere to rope, so I turned him out to pasture then not long ago decided to put him up for sale. This horse has won tons of money because he does not have one single PERFORMANCE hole in him, and alot of guys in the Oklahoma (Tulsa, Oklahoma City) and Texas area know this horse because he is a proven winner and will give you every chance in the world to win. I usually mounted at least 4 or 5 guys everywhere I competed and of various skill levels from beginner to pro. And more times than not they won checks on him. So I Advertised him on a few sites at what I had in him ($25,000) and gauranteed him as sound. Then I got to thinkin I might need have him vet checked myself since I was gauranteeing him to pass one, well as my luck would have it, digital x-rays showed minor deterioration around the Coffin bone (Early stages of Arthritis was the diagnosis) in his right foot. He's 17yrs old this year and I don't know that it would prevent him from passing a vet check or not, And although he hasn't showed any signs of lameness, I lowered the price accordingly and updated my ad to specifically state his condition. I don't know if he had it 3yrs ago when I bought him but definately WASN'T told that he did. My stupidity for not having him x-rayed. But just took the guy at his word, BIG mistake #2. And he may not have known and he may have, I had him flex tested by a vet the same day I got him home, but not x-rayed. Won't make that mistake again...So now I have a $25,000 calf horse for my son to trailride on every blue moon. I do have a few PRCA guys interested in him though at the new lowered price, but its been so muddy who know when or if they might ever show up. I can assure you one thing they will know EXACTLY what they're getting, I will tell them exactly what his condition is and nothing less. My apology for the long novel....

In my experience, the top horses are like top human athletes...if they have the heart to win as they age, they usually have a high pain tolerance to go with it. They are tough, and that's the hardest attribute to see in a horse when you are buying one, but you can usually read that look in their eye if you pay attention. I'm real picky about buying a horse with the "look of eagles". I want a large eye with no white, a little on the hard side, not too soft. A horse with a little bit of an independent look is a tougher horse than the softer eyed ones. I want a tough horse! Arthritis is common in older horses, and if managed right, a horse has many years left.

Sorry, but Iowa is too far. Videos don't do me any good. I want to see the horse in person, look him over, then get on him and feel what he is like. I can tell in 10 minutes if it's what I want. There's no way I'm driving to Iowa to look at a horse. I'm sure I'll run onto something near me when the weather clears up and I can look more. thank you anyway. Penny

Carl,I wouldn't worry about him a horse 17 and a calf horse will have some artharits.That is just like people.There are very few horses going down the road that win a lot of money that can pass a vet check.What does it hurt if your son learns to ride on him he is safe and you know him that is worth a bunch.Mever know in a little while he might want to rope and with managerment they can last into their 20s and do well.We have a barrel horse that my wife won a good bit on in the pros he is 21 and our son rides him now and wins.With management he will last him a few more years.You will drive the wheels of of a new Dodge hunting one.I had a horse for sale for 3yrs before I sold him Tim Pharr bought the horse and won a little over $50,000.on him at rodeos and jackpots this year.We raise them have the stud and mares.He had been to AQHA world show and made the finals twice had money won with four different ropers riding him as a mount horse in the pros and am as well.ROM in 3 events.Still if Ryan Jarret doesn't ride him we would probably still have him Ryan got the deal done.They didn't care if I was nobody he was a good well broke and sound horse.He passed the vet check and all went well.People want to buy from a big name that's human nature.There are very few horseman left in any event.We have a producing stud and producing mares.Two are half sisters to Charmayne James,Magic and one is a sister to Dave Brocks dun mare.They are money,saddle,buckel,winners from youth rodeo to the pros.They are ranch horses as well.The ones we haul are all used outside.But we show up in a stock trailer and not a really nice rig.What I was told was that you don't really sell winneres as such but name recogniotion.They have some size and are good looking but ranch looking.Cowboy horse's not broncs they are gentle but still cowboy looking and It doesn't matter what you win as long as they are pretty.Pretty will sell before a good plane looking one.I wouldn't worry about it let your kid learn to ride and have fun never know in a while you might be in a situation where you can go to some ropings and riding a good one is better than not.The 4D barrel races you can enter as many as you want so we usually have around 5 or so to take and win in several divisions so it works out fine.Good to take a green horse to can kinda pay their way since you are there anyway.That way if one horse gets soar sill have some coming a long you can turn him out and haul another.I tell them if mine don't sell we will just haul em till they are old and let em die here there are some buried here by the house.We sell one maby two a year they are not assembly line ridden and get a bit for them or they can stay.

Thanks everyone for your input.

To Ronny @ Carl.
Was watching RFD the other nite, had Bob Loomis on (cutter @ reiner trainer) he said most horses cannot pass xrays w/o some little thing showing up. Most of time doesn't matter. Your vet will not tell you whether to buy or not, unless it's pretty bad. I called a couple of young fellas I know about the xrays @ vet checks, one of these boys made the last couple nfsr's and one has made 4 or 5 nfr calf ropin's in a row, and they both told me that yes when they are buying horses, they do the xrays and stress tests, but there is always some little imperfection. So, they just go on the way the horses work, and best guess on how long one might last. For them guy's, hauling probably takes as much out of their horses as ropin.
I'am still looking for the perfect horse for me, broke/solid/sane. After the ice clears that is!
Thanks again everyone. And good luck!

What people want to know is what problems does the horse have.The thing people looking tell me is this sellers try to hide too much and when they get there the horse is not even close to what was described.If he is not sound but can be managed by proper shoeing and medicine they will consider a winner.I have seen some horses with ring bone,navicular,artharitis but was managable if they are still great keep them ready for the big events where the most money is up.And the average age of a timed event horse at the finals is around 18.There are some calf and steer horses that are in there 20's and with care still have a trememdious value.The main thing like I said is don't hide anything and be up front with it all.That is what people are wanting.

You might want to think about taking a look at the Williams' horse. I got one of their roping geldings and he was absolutely everything they said he was. Two years later and he is still a great horse. They are nice and honest people. Snickers says hey.
Steve Darden

You know "D" & Ronny you're both probably right, I have taken very good care of this horse and he has eaten better that I have most of the time. I haven't given up on him at all, just at the moment don't have time to go anywhere and compete and let him do what he loves to do which is ROPE CALVES.You can tell that some horses just love what they do because of how hard they try. He is actually one helluva Heel horse too and although I don't Team Rope anymore, he's a Pro Caliber Heel horse too. I know he has alot of years left in him because how how well he's taken care of. And I have a few guys wanting to lease him but I ain't going down that road, noway nohow. This horse has been too good to me, my son and my girlfriend and actually anyone else that has either trail ridden on competed on him. I just felt he was going to waste because my son and girlfriend only rides every blue moon. But he is so gentle, trustworthy and personable that you can't help but become very attached to him. Its like he knows when a child is riding him, because he will just drop his head and walk around and tolerate all the silly little things kids do while riding and then when an adult is on him then he becomes all business. For anyone that is either wanting to learn to rope or a seasoned vet that just needs a horse he can throw in the trailer and go to any rodeo on any level and know he is mounted on a horse that is going to give him everything he's got on every run, which most of the time translates to winning checks. I had just thought I might want to sell him and recoup some of the money I have in him but maybe it just one of those deals where its just meant for him to stay in my pasture. Who knows, I guess time will tell...

AHHHH.....give Snickers a huge hug. The kids still watch videos of him, we just loved him. Hope all is well. Call sometime! Kelly

Well I only put horses i want over 25,000 on here. I have lots of young horses from 1500-6500. I am sure there are a lot of junk on. here. I don't buy. I only sell. But i did a trade and got ripped. So be careful. But if you want resonably priced horses feel free to email me. I have lots of references people who know my horses. people who have bought horses off me.

I think this Penny is like most buyers and just wants to talk about it. If she won't take a video into consideration like the people in IA offered then she REALLY isn't looking. If you like a horse well enough off video, pictures, or references....you will make the trip. Be it in a car or airplane. It isn't that hard to get up and travel if you are a SERIOUS BUYER. I have had buyers come and buy for all over the world. This is why people don't like to sell horses is because of people like Penny who just want to talk the talk.

WOW! This post has a long life! I just wanted to add a little something. I know that it goes both ways, that there are plenty of horses that are NOT represented perfectly...but I also feel strongly that there are plenty of "lookers" who LIE about thier abilities with horses. Not only on thier backs, but have NO common sense around them at all. All I can say- the truth will come out! If your horse is junk- it will be known to the buyer. If you cannot ride- you will be fun to watch :) We raise, train and sell horses because we love it- there's not much profit in it- but we love horses. We have had people come try horses that could NOT even ride in a straight line. They have told us they are looking for pro-level horses and that they are pro-level riders...all I can say is, "LOL!!!!" I have some great-FUNNY-stories about some "buyers". Sometimes- people need to realize- that a SUPER well broke horse is usually going to be HARDER to ride for someone who doesn't understand what signals THEY are unintentionally giving the horse either with thier hands, feet, legs, seat, etc. Also, NOT EVERYONE can ride a 1D horse- and they shouldn't try! Have fun and enjoy a horse at YOUR level- don't try to jump up to look cool for your buddies- it will just make you miserable and probably ruin a great horse! I feel strongly that you cannot get a good feel for a horse without riding them a couple of times on separate occasions. If a seller is unwilling to let you try the horse for at least 3 days (even if on thier premises), then don't even go look!! I ride several horses EVERYDAY and I would NEVER expect to go hop on somebody else's horse and run flawlessly my first time out! Honestly- in my experience, I would say that only about 35% of potential buyers are truly as good as they (or thier parents) think they are. Instead of getting help they try to get a "better" horse- only to mess that one up too! NOBODY is too GOOD, OLD, or EXPERIENCED to get even better!

WOW! This post has a long life! I just wanted to add a little something. I know that it goes both ways, that there are plenty of horses that are NOT represented perfectly...but I also feel strongly that there are plenty of "lookers" who LIE about thier abilities with horses. Not only on thier backs, but have NO common sense around them at all. All I can say- the truth will come out! If your horse is junk- it will be known to the buyer. If you cannot ride- you will be fun to watch :) We raise, train and sell horses because we love it- there's not much profit in it- but we love horses. We have had people come try horses that could NOT even ride in a straight line. They have told us they are looking for pro-level horses and that they are pro-level riders...all I can say is, "LOL!!!!" I have some great-FUNNY-stories about some "buyers". Sometimes- people need to realize- that a SUPER well broke horse is usually going to be HARDER to ride for someone who doesn't understand what signals THEY are unintentionally giving the horse either with thier hands, feet, legs, seat, etc. Also, NOT EVERYONE can ride a 1D horse- and they shouldn't try! Have fun and enjoy a horse at YOUR level- don't try to jump up to look cool for your buddies- it will just make you miserable and probably ruin a great horse! I feel strongly that you cannot get a good feel for a horse without riding them a couple of times on separate occasions. If a seller is unwilling to let you try the horse for at least 3 days (even if on thier premises), then don't even go look!! I ride several horses EVERYDAY and I would NEVER expect to go hop on somebody else's horse and run flawlessly my first time out! Honestly- in my experience, I would say that only about 35% of potential buyers are truly as good as they (or thier parents) think they are. Instead of getting help they try to get a "better" horse- only to mess that one up too! NOBODY is too GOOD, OLD, or EXPERIENCED to get even better!

Penny Pincher, ha, I think not. I'll write the check it takes for the right horse, money isn't the issue. Finding what I wanted was. I wanted a horse with the feel to make a top 1D horse, and that's hard to find if you don't start them yourself the way you like them. I lost my good horse and I'm not ready to sit out a year or more getting one started. It's interesting how you can make the assumption about me from a website bulletin board that I'm REALLY not looking! The horse advertised in Iowa is too old, and it's a mare. Not even close to what I want. You must be the people in IA. I can tell that you've never looked at the really good horses or you'd never even consider buying from videos and pictures. That's truely laughable, and comes straight from the mouth of a novice. I won't buy off a video. I want to get on and FEEL the horse. I should never have came to a bulletin board and voiced my opinion on my horse search since I see that it's assumed I am looking for something average. Just try finding that ABOVE average prospect that hasn't already been pounded on or had it's legs run off before it's 6. It's people like you that I don't want to buy from. I found just what I wanted this weekend, and I travelled all of a hundred or so miles to the BBR in OKC to try it. Paid a lot more than I planned, but no big deal, I figured I'd have to anyway. What a waste of time this has been to try to discuss horse searches here! I've never done the bulletin board thing before, and someone told me that the REAL horse trainers and serious buyers and sellers don't do that, either, now I know they are right. Have fun here putting people down, I definitely WON'T be back. My time is better spent in the barn and on a horse.

Penny, I agree with a lot you said and just had to let you know. Most of the people selling horses on a classified website are trying to appeal to the masses because there are not enough people in their area that want their type of horse(s). I'd never buy a horse just by looking at a video either. It might give me an idea as to whether or not I'd travel to go ride the horse and try him but that's it. Same goes for auctions, might be fun to watch but I'd never buy a horse that I haven't ridden no matter how good someone else might make the horse look.
Now there are a few on these sites that are in the business of training or "tuning up" horses and then selling them, and they have quite a few so they are trying to expose the horses to as many people as possible. These are usually good average horses but not the "cream of the crop". Their really good horses sell too fast to post on a site.
My favorite way to buy a horse is to watch horses in the event I'm competing in and if I see one that I think does his job really well and seems to have a good temperment then I approach the owner and ask if they would consider selling the horse. If they are, then I ride them several times and make a decision. They might be a little more expensive to buy like this but well worth the money in my opinion. I'm not trainer and I know that so I prefer buying a finished solid horse.

If you are still looking for a well started barrel horse, I have one. He is doing very well on barrels and we have started the poles with him. We are asking 6500. for him. Let me know and I will send pics to you and his pedigree. He is registered AQHA and PHBA and he is incentive fund and he is six years old. He is fast, safe, and sound. Thanks. My phone number is 8703650432

Don't let the door hit you in the *****.

Doesn't it smell better in here now?