The thread on elbow injuries below prompts me to ask: Assuming for the sake of discussion that all those folks who say their dogs didn't get elbow clearances due to injuries (and I'm not saying this doesn't happen), shouldn't breeders be somewhat concerned that a dog that's meant to be a working dog seems so susceptible to elbow injuries? I understand that puppies especially can hurt themselves playing, but should there be so many elbow injuries? Truthfully, aren't you concerned that there is some underlying weakness in the elbow joint if can be so easily injured? Just asking...
Kathy

Interesting question. I know someone whose dog did not pass elbow OFA's. And we were wondering if it was an injury or genetics. Someone told them that the Grade OFA gave them would be akin to an injury such as being hit by a car or falling from a deck. I guess in that case, it doesn't matter how structurally sound the dog is if you sustain that kind of injury. Now this dog did not suffer such an injury so genetics is obviously suspected.

It just goes back to making informed decisions about your breeding program. There's more to finding the right dog than just clearances but they do serve as a guideline for newbies as some of us might not know lines and have decades of experience to know it's worth ignoring a clearance.

We have a boy with one grade 1 elbow, he had his elbows done at 60 months. This boy jumps straight up 3 ft off the ground from the time he was a pup. Was that an injury? I would think yes, 5 years of occasional bad landings would do it. Are all injuries real injuries? Who knows. we put his grade 1 elbow up on our site with all his other information. We can live with the truth. The problem I see alot is the ones who know the truth and try to hide it. The only way people will know the truth is if everyone is forth right with the information, we all know no dog is perfect. Owners could learn alot from their dogs on truth, honesty and being faithful to the breed.

Just my opinion!

Here is a question for you. How many people get elbow injuries fro just living life?

For that matter how many people would be allowed to reproduce if they had to go through a bunch of health clearances prior to reproducing? I think mankind would be an endangered species.

FWIW - once a dog sustains an significant injury to a joint, once the joint is not 100% correct, it is termed dyslpasia.

IMHO, Dysplasia can be genetic or environmental. I have a dog who passed elbows at 12 months and 24 months. No known dysplasia 4 generations back. He jumped out of my truck and yelped at 4 years old. When he has extended extercise, he will be a bit lame, other than that he is fine.

We did a bone scan. Radiologist specialist and Ortho vet said he sustained an injury to his elbow. Unless he underwent surgery, they would not know the extent. It could be a loose frament or a slight fracture. In any respect, the clinical diagnosis was elbow dyslplasia. He does not show any signs except when strenuously extercised. Had he been severly lame, I would have taken the surgery route.

I don't advertise this dog. He is a Champion and I do campaign him close to home. He has won groups a couple of times and had several group placements and specialty JAM's. I am very proud of him. I will use him in my program and if any other breeders want to use him, I will let them know what I have found out. It will be up to them to decide what they want to do.

Funny you should say that...I was just talking to a couple of friends and we were talking about the many illnesses folks have today and that compared to the work people used to do such as farming, factory, using horses and such, the illnesses and injuries seem to be much greater today. There were five of us talking and not one of us could name five people that did not have some sort of illness or injury...hhmm/

"This boy jumps straight up 3 ft off the ground from the time he was a pup. Was that an injury?"

We have one that does the same thing and it worries me waiting to do OFA's. Lines are good but over activity can certainly be the cause.

How much time do we spend telling buyers not to over exercise their pups. Same reason. Although in our case it is not an exercise issue (granted).

I have never dealt with this issue but my feeling is from reading the other thread that the minute you suspect an injury to get x-rays so you have it documented, especially prior to OFAs.

I think the previous thread had great reponses and was very informative from breeders who have been thru this.

Keep the info coming folks.

I had a young puppy about 4 months old come running thru the house after coming in from romping in the snow. He went flying across the pergo wood floor in the living room and smashed into the wooden corner of the couch frame. He immediately got up and was limping on his front leg and sore shoulder that had come in contact with the couch. Needless to say crate rest and Rimadyl helped but as he grew after running or heavy swimming he would favor that leg. He did not pass OFA on that elbow. Injury? Probably. Did I advertise him at stud, no. But if people were interested I told what happened and let them make up their own minds.

This was very different then a male I bought from the west Coast who was always a couch potato, never limped but on 1 yr old OFA prelims had Grade 2 both elbows. Hereditary, more than likely.

If a breeder is honest he will tell you. And lets not forget that many breeders still do not do OFA elbows, do yearly eye clearances but not always CERF, knees, hearts .. so ask..