I just recieved an email from Pawsitive ID . Apparently they are legally able to offer the PCRD test again at a resonable price. Here is a link http://www.ingen.bs/

I am going back to read it more carefully now myself.

Holy Cow!
Thats great news! Thanks so much for the heads up.
Annie

Dear Past, Present & Future Pawsitive I.D. ™ Customers:

The Pawsitive ID™ Genetic Testing Platform has been acquired by International Genetics, Inc (InGen) of Freeport, The Bahamas from Pinpoint DNA Technologies, Inc. InGen has a genetic testing laboratory in Freeport and can legally sell and process the Progressive Rod-Cone Degeneration (PRCD) test for dogs. All the other genetic tests that were previously on the Pawsitive ID™ platform are still available as well as a few new disease screenings like MDR1 and some new color tests. Please visit www.ingen.bs for more information on our current product line and to order kits.

To refresh your memory on past events, PinPoint was forced to discontinue the testing of PRCD in April 2008 due to patent issues from a competing lab. The competing lab has (2) patents on the PRCD process issued in the USA, Canada and the European Union. International Genetics has purchased the Pawsitive ID™ product, trademark, database, IT system and other marketing material from PinPoint and is now processing Premium Tests including PRCD in The Bahamas. No competing lab has filed a patent for the PRCD genetic test in The Bahamas therefore it is completely legal and ethical to sell and process the Pawsitive ID™ test with PRCD within the jurisdiction of The Bahamas.

In addition to PRCD, InGen has made many upgrades to the database and IT system. If you have previously purchased a Pawsitive ID™ test, logon to www.ingen.bs and go to the Customer Portal. Enter your email address and password and you should be able to log into your personal page and view all previously purchased certificates. If you have forgotten your password, there is a place to find it. This should be a big help in managing data for your breeding operation. All future purchases of Genotyping certificates will only be available through this Customer Portal. An internet connection is required for the Pawsitive ID™ product. And more improvements are coming soon!

I have agreed to act as General Manager for Companion Animal Testing as part of the purchase of assets from PinPoint. I oversee lab operations in Freeport (I know, it’s a tough job) and manage sales and customer service. Please feel free to contact me at rick@ingen.bs or our Customer Service Manager Sherrill Williams at sherrill@ingen.bs with any questions, problems or issues. You can give us a call at 242-352-8986 but email is the best way to communicate. And this number is a toll call to The Bahamas.

Our website is new and will have a few bugs in it for the next few days, so bear with us. We are working diligently to make the site easy to navigate and shop on. Please send us any suggestions as to how to make the site run more smoothly (website@ingen.bs).

Thank you for all your past business and I look forward to serving each of you in the future and for years to come.

Best regards

Rick Dobbins
International Genetics, Inc.
rick@ingen.bs

I wonder if they need any skilled Lab Techs to run all the specimens that will be pouring in shortly....ahhh, to live and work in the Bahamas, I feel the balmy breezes now....LOL!

Has anyone used Pawsitive ID for anything?

This sounds kinda seedy and how do we know if they actually have the CORRECT test?

Healthgene did this in the past (before the lawsuit :-) and the results weren't the same as Optigen (I did some with both to check). Are we looking at apples and oranges with these tests?

Peggy? Are you out there?

search the forum, been discussed to lengths.
It is no difference than choosing to use different labs for color testing.

I personally used Pawsitive ID on all 14 of my dogs.
three of my dogs already had Optigen test and 2 others had Vetgen test.
All results matched test to test. I can afford to test pups early on for $70 each, finding out early PRCd, color genes and other possible issues.
definitely worth it!

The test methodology is well documented and used in many areas of human diagnosis as well as dogs and cats. The instrumentation pretty much does most of the work and the results should be correct if protocals and quality control parameters are followed.
"Snips" have been used for awhile now in parental disputes and forensics.
I plan to contact them for a kit, have a young guy ready for testing.
Lisa M

There were quite a few of us that tested dogs through Pawsitive ID and got the same results as we did when we tested with Optigen. In my case, Valerie and I tested 6 dogs, but I know that quite a few people did the same thing and had the same results.

Not seedy at all, I used them and two already had optigen status, results were the same!! I am going to do the rest of my dogs before something else happens to stop them, good for them, maybe now optigen will HAVE to bring their prices down like they originally said they would!
Aloha,
jackie

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Replying to:

Has anyone used Pawsitive ID for anything?

This sounds kinda seedy and how do we know if they actually have the CORRECT test?

Healthgene did this in the past (before the lawsuit and the results weren't the same as Optigen (I did some with both to check). Are we looking at apples and oranges with these tests?

Peggy? Are you out there?

Dear "I dunno",

Yep, Sheila is right we tested 6, no actually 7, dogs that had been previously tested through Optigen and VetGen just for our own little comparison study. Everything came back "spot on" with the other testing we had done.

I would use them again.

Valerie Jones (Bibsmom)
JonValer Labradors

I like the flourescent tag Pawsative ID uses in their system. Very specific for the gene sequence they are identifying.
Works for me!
Lisa M

fat finger syndrome again, sigh.....*fluorescent

Yes yes, quite a few people used the test! It was all the buzz back when they were about to stop the testing as many of us were rushing to order our kits before the deadline. I kept track of many results for a while to see if they were turning out the same as optigen, for those who had already done optigen and were using the test for coat color/dna etc, or those who were confirming clear by parentage. Not a single one came back different than the optigen or the assumed clear by parentage. I stopped tracking when they announced it was not going to be offered anymore as they made it sound like it would NEVER be offered again. I am thrilled with this:)
Yes they have had their troubles, but such is the way when you are trying to break into such a closed system where it is the status quo that everyone prefers.
I am sure they have a long ways to go before they can be considered an accepted standard by all, but if people simply use them for DNA and coat eventually it will be a bit obvious that results are consistent, or at least I hope they are, as this would be a huge savings and something even our puppy families would be interested in for DNA ID's at that cost.
Time will tell

Annie

I used Pawsitive ID for color testing. I already had Optigen, so the dog was tested by both Pawsitive ID and Optigen. The dog was found to be a carrier by both tests.

Fair enough.

Two questions. Does the $70 cover all the available testing for one dog? The sample certificate seems to have tested for everything including color.

If this test is accurate why would it matter if Optigen dropped their price or not?

I'm interested in it at this price.

Yes the fee covers testing for everything. Optigen would have to include a bunch of other things to compete with these guys for sure.
Aloha,
Jackie

I have 4 dogs that need to be tested. With this cost, I glad I have held off doing it. I will use the Pawsitive test.

can i ask a stupid question?

this is just a cheek swab ? no blood draw for this test?? or am i missing the info from the site? I am not familiar with this company from before....

TIA

So you go to the web site, order the kit, do the swab and that is it ? Think it says $75. am I at the right place ? Help !

Yep that's it and yes if under 6 dogs cost is 75. per dog. You also do need to pluck a few hairs off the dog to include with the cheek swab.
Aloha,
Jackie

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Replying to:

So you go to the web site, order the kit, do the swab and that is it ? Think it says $75. am I at the right place ? Help !

We are trying to order 5 kits and we can't seem to figure out where or how we put a credit card in to pay for them. We checked out and got the total, order number and status pending but no where or at anytime did we see an option to pay or put in a credit card.

Has anyone else had this problem or know how to pay?

Do you order one Breeder Pack for each dog? It is a bit hard to understand

I order one breeder kit with a total of 5 kits for 5 different dogs.

Where does it say they do all the tests for your breed, including color???
I'm lost!

So for that price it does more than just the PCRD test for eyes ? Glad others are trying it before me. I will be aware of some of these things. Need to do three. Thanks.

They did say something about their website being new & expecting problems. Maybe you found the first bug.

More questions... LOL

So you order the test or the kits, do you pay when you order, or do you send in with payment???

VetGen had me pay up front before sending me swabs for colour test, HealthGen just sends the swabs and you pay when you send in.

I remember when i did my boy for Optigen, it was well over $300 to do the test, and I went outside of a clinic and it cost me $105 just to ship. (Canada to US).but that was blood rather than just a swab in a cushy envelope.

Very interesting....of course, i have no colour coat tests to run and no PRCD to run right now either. :-( but very happy to read all the info on this!

Yep, you get I believe this list of things (found on their website) also.
Progressive Rod-Cone Degeneration (PRCD)
Canine Multidrug Sensitivity (MDR1)
Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA)
Hypothyroidism with Goiter (HTG)
(Congenital Hypothyroidism)
Cystinuria (CYST)
Globoid Cell Leucodystrophy (GCL)
Neuronal Ceroid Lipofuscinosis (NCL)
Phosphofructosokinase Deficiency (PFK)
Von Willebrand Disease (vWD)
Narcolepsy (NARC)
Cone degeneration (CD)
Canine Leucocyte Adhesion Deficiency (CLAD)
Hemophilia B (HmB)
Muscular Dystrophy (MD)
Myotonia Congenita (MC)
GMI Gangliosidosis (GMIG)
Retinal Dystrophy (prad)
SCID (DNA-PKc & DNA PKc2)
Mucopolysaccharidosis Type VII (GUSB_NOSVVIII)
Thrombasthenic Thrombopathia (THROM)
Aloha,
Jackie

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Replying to:

So for that price it does more than just the PCRD test for eyes ? Glad others are trying it before me. I will be aware of some of these things. Need to do three. Thanks.

All for a LABRADOR????
Wow, this seems too good to be true...

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth
Aloha,
Jackie

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Replying to:

All for a LABRADOR????
Wow, this seems too good to be true...

It does seem like a lot of tests for a single fee, but once the test system is set up, depending on the system, it may be less expensive in the long run for the provider to run everything on all the specimens rather than pick and chose the individual order.Saves the consumer money and simplifies the test system.
I am sending mine in when the payment snafu is cleared up...haven't ordered yet....hope that problem is fixed soon!
Take Care
Lisa M

Okay. The Optigen test came out and there were bugs. While they were working out the bugs Healthgene "thought" they had correctly grabbed the formula and they brought out their own test. The results were different from Optigen. Optigen managed to get them to stop doing this because of North American patents.

For probably 5 or 6 years the "big" breeders pooh-poohed the Optigen test and told everyone they wouldn't do it. Eventually they came around and now it's an accepted standard.

The the EIC test comes out. Peer reviewed it is considered a viable test (based on the published information, not hearsay) but again the "big" breeders are refusing to do it.

Are we sensing a cycle here?

Now another company has taken Optigens "formula" from the published papers and gone off-shore so that the patents no longer touch it.

Now everyone is going to this new company and their cheaper test and want to "get back" at the people/company that spent the time and money (alot of which was YOURS, donated by the various Labrador clubs)to make this test possible for you.

Now that's one thing but other than a few people saying their "test" dogs came back the same as Optigen (btw, this happened with my dogs and the Healthgene test so this really says nothing)what proof does everyone have that this test is THE test?
What if everyone is running off to a cheaper test and is inadvertently bringing prcd back into our programs using incorrect data?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Not "everyone" is planning on using this company. I personally feel what they are doing is unethical, if they are willing to skirt the law to get around the patent, what else would they be willing to do?
I hope Optigen again sues them to prevent it's use in the "civilized" parts of the world that respect patent laws.
JMO of course.

I think it's unethical to patent a diagnostic test, period!! How about I found a test for breast cancer, have it patent then I can charge whatever! Ya, That's really ethical!

I personally feel that Optigen's test are to expensive. Now that they have it "down pat" they should drop the price to something more reasonable so more breeders would be able to test all dogs and litters.

I want to do "the right thing" and test for PRCd and eliminate it from my lines but unfortunately in today's economic times Optigen is out of my reach.
I will be using Pawsitive ID to test a few pups I would like to keep.

Ummm Beebop,
Tests as you describe exist, for breast cancer (BRAC) and other cancers. They are patented and yes, they can charge whatever. I agree with you, I don't understand how a patent for a human or animal gene is ethical or reasonable. But, if you patent a test for a specific part of a gene that diagnoses a hereditary trait, that is reasonably patentable.They spent the bucks to develope the test and submit to FDA for clearance, including extensive testing. So the gene sequence is wrapped into the test methodology. That's how they do it.

The key of any tests, as far as I'm concerned, is not necessarily to eliminate diseases. I do it so I don't produce affected dogs. Along the way I manage to produce a few clears. In almost 10 years of using Optigen I still have carriers in my program and probably always will.

If you can't afford Optigen I would suggest breeding to a clear dog and taking what you may get from that litter to test a dog or two. Over time all will be tested and I bet you'll be happier you didn't go with the other company.

As a stud dog owner I don't think I'd consider this other company's test as an appropriate clearance.

If I had an Optigen B bitch, I am not sure I would feel comfortable using a stud dog that is only Pawsitive ID tested prcd PRA normal/clear. There is too much at risk, IMO. It just isn't the Gold Standard that Optigen seems to be...

why do you consider Optigen the gold standard?
they have screwed up many times in the past.
Just because they were one of the first does not mean they are the only one.

marker test is just that should not matter what company ran it. are you saying you would not accept a dog with penn hip results if they had decided not to use OFA?

"why do you consider Optigen the gold standard?
they have screwed up many times in the past.
Just because they were one of the first does not mean they are the only one."

Technically, they are. Anyone else using a similar test has taken it from them. Anything else is like someone putting a Cadillac label on a mountain bike.

"marker test is just that should not matter what company ran it. are you saying you would not accept a dog with penn hip results if they had decided not to use OFA?"

PennHip is a measurement, not just an opinion.

There are several accepted joint "registries" and any one of those would be acceptable. Again, the Pawsitive ID test would be equivalent to taking the reading of a PetSmart veterinarian as the gospel on hips. Yes, they both have an idea what they should see but how can you really tell if they are right without checking apples against apples? Optigen and Pawsitive ID are apples in oranges as far as I'm concerned.

"Optigen and Pawsitive ID are apples in oranges as far as I'm concerned"


They both use the same exact testing to get to the answers so how can they be different?
It has been PROVEN over and over by many breeders that optigen and Pawsitive ID testing get the SAME results. They are apples and apples, maybe different variety but still the SAME test.

I agree SFbreeder. Both are molecular based tests, each having multiple test methodologies (more than 1 way to arrive at the same gene sequence isolation/identification). All are valid, proven methods.SNP genotyping is a little newer technology but still well tested and validated. We use several different test methods in our human Molecular Diagnostics Lab, depending on what we're looking for.
I like the SNP tests, very reliable and fairly easy to perform.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNP_genotyping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsatellite_DNA

Best to you