I have just learned that 2 pups, both males, from 2 litters of the same parents (repeat breeding) have each had seizures.
They are 3 and 4 years old now.
I am, to say the least, devastated.

My question is what should I do as far as my breeding program goes?

These are lines I have been woring with for 7 years. I have a lot in my kennel related, although none from the same exact breeding.
I have daughters of the mother and sons and daughters of the father.

What are feelings regarding mode of inheritance with epilepsy?

Do both parents have to carry the gene to produce affected offspring? Do we even know?

The sire has produced over 10 litters, most with outside bitches. I have not "heard" any negative feedback from them. But of course that doesn't mean anything.
I would hope that bitch owners would relate any information pertaining to offspring produced by my stud dog, but that doesn’t mean they will.

Do I need to washout this entire line??

How would I even do that with most of my kennel going back to these lines?
And how do I attempt to go about indentifying which line it could be coming from??

I have never heard ANYTHING about this problem in the lines behind the sire.
The bitch was an import, so it’s hard to say on her. Very limited info to say the least.

I guess I'm looking for some advice on how to proceed.

Keep in mind that if puppy buyers do not alert their breeder then how is a breeder to know their dogs are carriers? Lots of breeders only have "kennel" dogs and with that, it's easy to miss witnessing a seizure. It is important that at the time of sale breeders tell buyers to please keep them informed on the health and well being of their pup. Putting that aside, the following has been posted many times and I hope it helps: (1) if a dog with epilepsy is bred to a bitch and 1 or more pups have seizures, the bitch cannot be clear/normal. She must be a carrier. (2) if the epileptic dog is bred to a normal/clear, then all the pups will be carriers but none will have epilepsy.

Are they sure it is seizures and epilepsy? Have they described the episodes to you? I would test the sire and dam or the dogs that have had "spells" for EIC (Exercise Induced Collapse). Many veterinarians are not familiar with this genetic condition and will mis-diagnose as epilepsy or heat stroke.

It is an inexpensive test to rule out one possible cause. If the "pups" are affected, that means both sire and dam are carriers. If they are not also affected (only carrers), you could still use them in your breeding program to outside dogs that are certified as non-carriers.

If it really is epilepsy, I know there is reasearch going on and you should be able to search to find out the suspected mode(s) of inheritance.

Good luck.

MK

Is there a test for epilepsy?

How do you know this? I didn't think it took two to tango with epilepsy. I thought only one had to be a carrier/affected.

Here is a link www.canine-epilepsy.net. There is a lot of information that may help the owners of these dogs. Also there is help that should answer some of your questions and information about the ongoing research at the Univ. of Missouri.
I am sorry you are going through this. That happened to me in Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs and I quit breeding those lines. If these dogs have true idopathetic epi, it has to be assumed( because we do not know yet) that both parents are carriers, and without a test there is no way to know whether or not any future breeding partners will be clear or carriers. Dr George Padgett -geneticist who is now deceased, said to not breed known carriers( if there is no test so you know about the breeding partner), and to use their offspring carefully. Full siblings to the affected dogs would have to be considered carriers. Harder to know about their half siblings. Since your bitch is an import, is there any communication that would give you more information on her? I have seen but have no idea where now, a chart that shows the inhertibility % of using offspring from affected animals and carriers.
I wish you the best. Epi is an ugly disease and as long as people continue to hide it, finding an answer will be a long way off.

Julia

Just curious if both dogs are in the same household since you just heard about both of them? If so, could they have been exposed to something? I've heard that every dog has a seizure threshold, so if something unusual (chemical exposure/poisons) happens, any dog could have an epileptic seizure.

Just thinking out loud...

My information on epilepsy in dogs may be a bit outdated by current reserch. As best I understand it, it is really a combination of two likely genetic brain issues that must occur together in order for inherited seizures to be present. One of the factors is known to be dominant. The other is thought to e recessive. Two coies of the recessive gene will not result in seizures UNLESS the dominant is also present. One or two copies of the dominant will not result in seizures unless the dog also has two copies of the recessive.

As I said, this may be a little outdated, but it is what I learned a few years ago. This means that a dog with one copy of each gene can be bred to a bitch with only the recessive and offspring may get the combination required to produce seizures. That bitch can be bred to any number of dogs that do NOT have the dominant gene and never produce epilepsy again. That dog can be bred to any number of bitches that do NOT have the recessive gene and never produce epilepsy again. It is a real crap shoot!

Last I heard, they are working on isolating the recessive gene involved so there can be a test for it. I don't like this approach, because if we decide to limit expression of this gene we may be losing some other beneficial functions when the gene BY ITSELF does not result in seizures. I would rather see the dominant isolated, as it is required to "trigger" the seizure activity. Dominant genes are much harder to track for developing markers and eventually isolating (I am told).

In any event, just because there were pups with seizures in a breeding does NOT mean that all of the pups will be carriers of either (much less both) genes. Good luck on sorting it all out. The best advice I can give is to muddle through - just like most Lab breeders have been doing for 100 years. This problem is not new and isn't going away quickly. We just have to maintain a watchful eye and breed carefully.

The first and most important thing you should do is provide blood samples for epilepsy research.

http://www.canine-epilepsy.net/forms.html

Research is underway at the veterinary schools in Missouri and Minnesota. Read this very insightful article to get an idea of the current status of research.

http://www.essfta.org/Health_Research/epilepsy.htm

With multiple offspring experiencing seizures, it is very likely hereditary. In the article above, they state that 65% of seizures first seen between one and five years of age are hereditary.

As for your breeding program, talk to as many people as possible. This is the EXTREMELY difficult part. Most people would much rather lie (to themselves & others) than admit there is a problem. Seizing dogs have a way of disappearing. Well, that's probably a good thing. Even so, there are some people who are willing to share their experiences. Bless them!!!

As for breeding, when you are going to breed from you line, tell owners of potential stud dogs that you are concerned about epilepsy because others in your line have had problems. That way an ethical stud dog owner may suggest you look elsewhere. Their reason may not be assumed, and it is not necessary for you to ask why. It could be they know of something generations back. It may be they worry that their dog could be implicated if seizures come up, not necessarily from the contemplated breeding, but maybe a generation or two down the line.

The one thing that you can't do right now is purchase a dog that is guaranteed not to carry seizures. We would need a test for that. And that is why it is so very important you help with the research by providing samples.

There are some 30 forms of epilepsy, about 1/3 of which they assume are genetic. Look for trends, move away from trends, otherwise don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.