I know this is a touchy subject, but it has never been discussed here and would like to know what is common courtesy in this area.

I sell a pup to a client on co-ownership. They show the dog. Every time dog wins...they "brag, brag, brag" on public forums and emails and phone calls. No mention or congratulations or acknowledgment of the co-owner (me) or the breeder (Me). Its sort of weird. I never saw this happen before. Am I invisible? And am I unreasonable to be a little miffed at this? What is common courtesy? Maybe when I had been on the other end of it, I was so thankful to the breeder and co-owner maybe I "lauded" them too much?

What is customary, and have any of you been in awkward situations like this feeling like you are a "heel" for being miffed, but at the same time wondering if you are normal to feel this way?

Your years and years of hard work, and you just watch the newbie co-owner pat themselves on the back?

I'm ready for the "fire" to be launched (on me), but I'd really like to know if I am really the one that is the spoiled sport. I have said nothing and will not EVER say anything about this, except autonomously, as I guess maybe this person NEEDS this recognition, and I should just stand by and be happy for them.

I was in a similar situation. When my dog (whom I owned outright, no co-own) finished, there were kudos galore on public forums for his BREEDER; there was no mention of ME - despite the fact that I was the owner and it was my time, effort, $$ and perserverance that got him finished in the first place! I felt very slighted, too, so I can sympathize with you.

Having been on both sides my advice is to simply take the high road. The "breeder's" Kennel name is on the dog which confers automatic recognition. And those of us at the shows know who is at the end of the lead!
I personally am simply thrilled to see others win with my kids, even if I am no longer on the ownership papers.

1. If it bothers you so much, why not write a note to the owner and tell him/her please include me on your brags. You can be tactful...and it at least opens the eyes to the owner. And unless you see something malicious it can be a simple oversight in a moment of excitement.

2. Post on the public forum too.. "Yes I am so proud of this boy/girl I bred and co own with YADA YADA." you can add to it "Thanks to YADA YADA for getting him/her out and shown and (hiring a handler or showing him/her themselves" Again there are ways to be tactful and add your name too!

"Post on the public forum too.. "Yes I am so proud of this boy/girl I bred and co own with YADA YADA.""

Erin, that's the road I take on a very nice boy I'm co-breeder on, but owned by others. Never any mention of me as the co-breeder in ads, on his web page, etc. When someone congrats his the other co-breeder as his "breeder", I just chime in and say we're very proud of him too.

I'm so happy for someone who has won with my breeding, that's thanks enough to me.

This is the way certain newcomers take a short cut. Sell tons of puppies, use the money to buy a handler and buy the best puppy they can afford. They don't go in the ring themselves just get on the forum and brag. Some of these brags and posts are embarrassing.
I'd rather sell to a small time hobbyist who was going to love my dog, take him in the ring herself and enjoy the journey.

Doesn't bother me a bit. My kennel name is on there, and my name is on as breeder. I prefer congratulations that aren't initiated by my own brags anyway.

I think there is a proverb that goes like this "Let another praise you, and not your own mouth, someone else, and not your own lips."

those who get on forums to brag repeatedly (embarrassingly so someone mentioned) seem like they may be one who is just so dying for acceptance, and they are desperate for recognition.

All of you out there who work hard and sacrifice, mentor, and give....just sit back and be happy for them is my advice, I guess. If you get praise, be happy, if not, YOU know, and your dogs speak for themselves. Newbies still have to "do their time" to prove longevity, no matter how many ribbons they can buy. Some of us are "steadies" over the long haul. Consistent. Lovers of the breed. Constantly studying and learning. Not followers of the "flavor of the month" or needing to be in the "big girls club". LOL!

Interesting input here in this thread.

They may not even realize they are doing anything wrong. Maybe you should just talk to them? :)

I have seen this too. Some of these "newbie's" just think the world should be handed to them as if they are entitled or something. They think they have done all the work just by feeding a pup they bought from a real breeder.
It really irks me.
The other thing I have seen that is annoying is the newbie’s that DO use the breeders name TOO MUCH.
That’s what I call coat tail riders.
They brag and brag about how they have a dog from "such and such big time breeder", so much that it's so obvious that they are using the breeders name to get recognition for themselves.
As if people will really think BUYING a nice dog from a big breeder makes them now hot stuff too.
Both cases are irritating and both cases scream newbie who wants too much too soon without putting their own blood sweat and tears into it!

I'm gong to get a little philosophical. Recently I was talking with another breeder and gave my take on some of the common problems between dog owners. It is a"world view" difference that is very deep rooted and makes it almost impossible to see life the same way.

Some people view the Universe as limited. It only has so much good and so much bad. If someone else takes a bit of the "good", there will be less left for that person. This view leads easily to jealousy, stinginess and a reliance on "luck" to favor one with the "good stuff" instead of the leftovers. These people seldom want to share their glory and will sometimes go to great lengths to avoid acknowledging any part of the credit for their success.It might take something away from them to share it with another. Glory "watered down" to spread around is not as satisfying as glory hoarded

By contrast, some people view the Universe as limitless. This is a much harder concept, since our brains are geared to enumerate, count, measure, etc. The idea of limitless is hard for some to grasp either conceptually or philosophically. People who accept the idea that there is boundless good and evil in the Universe are glad - even eager - to share the limelight with others. They can be genuinely happy that another person has had success and believe that hard work, skill and perseverance can lead to rewards. When something good happens to them, they gladly include others in the congratulations. There is enough limelight to go around for them - and they certainly appreciate others to share the blame when things go awry

This is sort of like the glass that is half full or half empty - but is determined by a much deeper seated core belief. One can learn to be more optimistic and improve one's attitude, but one can likely never learn to accept the idea of no limits or boundaries for the bounty life has to offer. Those of us who take joy in shared fortune or accomplishments should not feel slighted (though it is hard sometimes) when the limited world view of others pushes us to the wings. Just accept them for who they are and be glad you don't have to live that way

currently have one that we bred living with co-owner
we shoulder costs for showing with the co owner paying for field work. when ever we are asked about the dog we always mention the loving co owner with whom he lives, and the co owner always refers others to us because of this.

If you don't know something is broke, you can't fix it.--communicate with the other person. [

Does co-ownership ruin relationships? Is it like lending money to friends or discussing politics at a social gathering? Doesn't someone in a love triangle always feel cheated? I'm sure these things can work, but co-ownerships seem fully loaded and ready to explode from the moment they are signed. Whew!

Many people make co-ownerships work just fine. Look at the Hyspire gals - they do a great job of it. Also some of the Michigan gals co-own many of their dogs together as well. I think problems crop up when greed does - people who have a bit of common sense and aren't out there to take everyone for all they can get, can make co-ownerships work out well for everyone involved.

YES IT DOES!!!

I have had it happen to me and yes it does hurt my feelings. I try not to be thin or thick skinned but it is nice to acknowledged.

" Re: touchy subject

Many people make co-ownerships work just fine. Look at the Hyspire gals - they do a great job of it. Also some of the Michigan gals co-own many of their dogs together as well. I think problems crop up when greed does - people who have a bit of common sense and aren't out there to take everyone for all they can get, can make co-ownerships work out well for everyone involved. "

AMEN TO THAT SISTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every man who praises himself brushes the luster from his best efforts.

Ellen Gould White

The breeder gets the acknowledgement from having the kennel name on the dog. When people see a nice dog that they like or see winning in the show ring and they want to learn more about this dog, they look up the kennel name, not the owners name. On the other hand, yes the breeder supplies the material, but the owner is the one who (in most cases)trains the dog, pays for the dogs entry fees, pays the dog handler or handles the dog themself, conditions the dog, drives the dog to the shows and supports the dog living with them. There must be credit given to the owner as well as the breeder. With some co-ownerships the breeder sells the puppy to the owner and once sold is not involved with the showing of the dog after the papers are signed.
There are also some breeders that want ALL the credit and don't want to give any credit to the owners. Where if it was not for the owner taking the dog to the shows and planning the dogs strategies for the shows the dog would not even be showing at all. I think we need to start accepting that the credit should go to both the breeders and the owners.

* Does co-ownership ruin relationships? Is it like lending money to friends or discussing politics at a social gathering? Doesn't someone in a love triangle always feel cheated? I'm sure these things can work, but co-ownerships seem fully loaded and ready to explode from the moment they are signed. Whew!*

Not if you choose the right co-owner who has the same goals as you do. Co-ownerships can lead to life-long friendships and successful accomplishments.

First, I would say don't worry. We see right through them. We always look to see who the breeder is and who the sire or dam is. We as long time breeders know how much goes into breeding a nice puppy. I would just say, we know and you can be proud. Some do brag a little much.

My mentor always told me ANYONE can go out a BUY a great dog with tons of money if need be, its the BREEDER who deserves the CREDIT as it took in many cases several generations of work to produce. Yes, the same people with the money to buy the dogs can pay for the best handlers to finish them and it still wasn't your hard work, as a great dog would finish with anyone handling it. Buyers are just lucky to chose what dogs to buy and will get some great lines to work with in the future.....

Then the breeder must also take credit when they sell a client a mediocre dog as a top show prospect. The new owner relying on the breeders knowledge of breeding for several generations spends countless dollars on showing the dog and hiring top handlers and the dog does not win a single point ever.

"spends countless dollars on showing the dog and hiring top handlers and the dog does not win a single point ever"

Sounds like sour grapes to me...

Sorry but not EVERY fantastic puppy PROSPECT actually TURNS OUT AND passes clearances!! NOT the breeders fault, call it genetics!

It's those newbies again that think they should be handed the world in a box.

Get a grip, get a mentor and MOVE ON!

What about the supposed "breeder" who leases a bitch, puts their kennel name on the pups and tries to take credit for something they really had nothing to do with??

If someone leases a bitch, the bitch is theirs for the litter. They are the ones selecting the stud dog, paying all of the litter expenses and raising the litter, selecting the pups, etc. Why wouldn't they put their kennel name on the litter? I would say the bitch owner had nothing to do with the litter, and chances are they may not have even bred the bitch. They obviously agreed to the lease, so what is the issue here?

I know of one who doesn't pay for any fees associated with stud or pregnancy. Kind of a brokerage for selling puppies.

How some get so defensive and start singing sour grapes every time someone hits a senario right on target. You must be the one selling the mediocre dogs.

I might add, get the RIGHT MENTOR you can trust. If you are a newbie you might have to Kiss alot of Frogs before you get the Prince and pay your dues like all of us did. The very Old Time Breeder Mentors want to see what you cand do with their dog. Sometimes, and very rarely you get lucky in the beginning. Humility and respect is very important.

My how the claws come out when subjects get "touchy"...

I think you all should refer back to Maureens example.
She is right on!

Of course not every show prospect turns out and I would expect that to be a given. If the dog doesn't work out, place it and move on instead of complaining about it. Be honest with the breeder and tell them the dog just wasn't what you had hoped for.

If a breeder cannot handle another person doing well with any and all of their puppies that are bred, they shouldn't be breeding or selling puppies to other people. Its just NORMAL to be happy and supportive of a buyer who has purchased one of your puppies.
Those who are out there spending the money, showing your breeding and doing all the work, deserve alot of respect and thanks. The puppy/dog/bitch could just be sitting home where no one would ever see it and that doesn't help you out for future puppy buyers.
If a breeder can't be supportive or happy for the successes I would say there is a green factor going on of jealousy and that is very unfortunate.
I agree with the above poster, finding the RIGHT mentor is key!

"Those who are out there spending the money, showing your breeding and doing all the work, deserve alot of respect and thanks."

And so does the breeder....because without the breeders WORK, you wouldn't be winning with anything!!

Also think the breeder deserves some thanks for allowing you to have one of their breeding, don't you?

This thread is getting very sad .... a lot of jealousy and sour grapes. Be happy for others' successes. If you live long enough, what goes around, comes around. Even the most successful breeders have many, many failures with only a few successes thrown in just to keep them going. Be grateful that you have possibly been able to benefit from their efforts and enjoy what everyone is able to accomplish. I can only be thrilled with someone who may have one of my puppies and has been successful with it. If my kennel name is on the papers, if my name is on as breeder or the bitch was leased and my name isn't on it, makes no difference to me. I know what I've done and so do others whose opinions I value. The number of people remembered in this sport when we're all dead and gone is very small and 99% of us won't be one of them. Some of you say that the same people win continually. They win because of the quality of their dogs not because of who they are. They become who they are because of the quality of their dogs. They've sacrificed their lives, money and talent to achieve what they have. Why begrudge them? In a much smaller way, the same can be said of the person who happens to have a single dog winning on the circuit. Whether it's their breeding, something they bought, leased or borrowed for the day, allow them their 15 minutes of fame and concentrate on your own goals. Gosh. I just don't get the sour grapes and envy that seems to prevelent in this sport. You're missing all the fun and joy.

I think the original question by the OP was lost...they were asking what was "customary"

She did not sound sour grapes, in fact, she sounded like she felt bad that anyone would think that???

derailed threads...happens...

The sour grapes and need to be acknowledged was pretty clear in the OP. Enjoy that your breeding is doing well. There can't be a better "thanks" than that.

It's the holiday season. Be pleasant for a change. Buy & breed what you love and love what you buy or breed.