I have a 6 month old female who is totally out of control on a leash.
I have been trying to get her used to the leash for months now to no avail.
She acts like a nut when pressure is applied to move forward and she starts, leaping and rolling around like a lunatic. Sometimes to the point of almost strangling herself pulling away from me.
She tries to put her head between my legs and trips me constantly.
All the while her tail is still wagging. Like she thinks if she makes me give up, she can go off and play.
I don't know how else to describe this but she is a dominant personality and is very energetic all the time. I don't feel this is a fear thing, but I could be wrong.
I am at my wits end and ready to place her because of this.
I just can't seem to get through to her, not with food, toys, nothing.
The only way I can move her forward is to hold her jaw and the collar with both hands and literally drag her. As soon as I let go on the jaw, the head goes back down, and she tries to bull her way through my legs or behind me to get away. I am in a sweat after every "session" and have gotten nowhere.
Never seen one like this.
Is there hope? Because I've about had it.

I think I should add, she is fine without a leash on.
What am I doing wrong?
Any and ALL suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

I think she is making it perfectly clear that she thinks she is in charge.
You need to work on alpha issues first. She must earn her food, she must not walk through a door before you, she must learn to poddie on command.

I agree 100% that this sounds like a dominace issue. She needs to learn who walks who around here. There are many techniques that can be used to show her you are dominate and that she must submit to you. Once you gain your status, you will can gain control on lead and everyone where else as well.

Best of luck!

Agreed - and PLEASE don't try and rehome her to a pet home with this behavior. Pet owners are much less able to deal with issues like this than the breeder. Don't dump your problems on an unsuspecting pet owner.

I've got a puppy right now that is exactly like yours. Mine is just over 5 months old and she is a handful. When mine was thrashing around, I just made sure her collar was tight enough that she couldn't come out of it and I just stood there and let her thrash around until she wore herself out and realized that it wasn't going to get her anywhere. Eventually she gave up and when she moved forward a bit she got a lot of praise. I also often took another dog out with her on her first few walks, so she could hopefully emulate good behavior and it also just kept her moving forward.

I agree that this is a dominance issue. My puppy is already trying to dominate everyone in the house - dog and human. I'm doing lots of obedience and I have also started her with field work. It's going to take lot of persistence and discipline to turn this kind of puppy into a well behaved dog.

The upside to my puppy is that she is extremely smart and is really birdy, so I have high hopes for her as a hunt test dog. Her mother wasn't exactly a walk in the park as a puppy, either, and she ended up with her CD, JH, SH, and MH titles. Sometimes these types are worth the extra effort.

Have you tried a Halti-lead? I have also use an extra lead wapped around the rear like when you are teaching a young horse to lead.

What kind of collar and lead set up are you using? Chain training collar, nylon collar, gentle leader,buckle collar, web lead, leather lead, chain lead? Are you working in the same place each time? Have you gotten her to move forward at all, even a foot, on lead? Do have an Obedience club in your area?
Do you have a good sit or down on lead without trying to heel?

I do the same thing when I have a stuborn pup. Just stand there and let them throw a fit until they realize they didn't win. That is really the key. Once they know they didn't win, it forces them into a submissive state. You won, therefore you are dominate.

I start puppies on a leash by using a Flexi and a soft collar and just going where they go and let them go out and then stoop down and click the Flexi and call them and treat them when they come. Over and over again. I never, never let them strain on the leash at first and I have never had a problem and I personally don't think it is an alpha thing and the more the dog is corrected for that thing the harder he is going to rebel. Also I don't wait for months to start this. I start them at around 7 weeks when they are still in love with me and come when called. It is not that hard to teach them. We just kept three puppies and they all got the training and did just fine. That is not that they won't eventually pull on the lead because this seems to be a Lab thing, but they are manageable and they learn to turn around when they hear the click of the Flexi. Then on to the cotton training lead and then on to the show lead. Just what I do Ellie

Try walking her with another dog at the same time. She may need the visual! I've had babies like this as well, it really does help to walk them with an adult. GOOD LUCK and DON'T GIVE UP!!!!!

Have you tried a harness rather than a collar or head collar? Sometimes a harness works because there is nothing pressing on the scruff of the neck which is where dogs feel quite vulnerable.

I always shudder when people start throwing out the "dominence" term. So many things are contributed to dominence and "showing them who's boss". While I don't discount that some dogs are dominent dogs and others are not, most people think that you control something like this by somehow "overcoming the dog". Coming from an obedience background, I would suggest strongly suggest taking some obedience lessons with your dog and having them learn some other things too, not just trying to "walk quietly on a leash" Just skip the "sit" part if you don't want her sitting as a default position. Teach "stand" instead. Use positive,happy, but firm methods for training. And with a young lab, I would also suggest a properly used prong collar and lots of treats for a while.

Use a choker and don't let her thrash. Ease up and then start out again. If she starts to pull or act up, lead her around in a tight circle and start out again. You may make your self dizzy but it throws them off. When horses act up trainers will have them do a tight circle to keep them from getting momentum. It tells her that you are in charge.
Go to a gentle leader in combination with a choker. Use treats to praise. Keep sessions short and slowly increase the time and the distraction. Remind her frequently who is in charge with stops and sits. Correct her with the choke if she doesn't. Be firm.

Be gentle with her; you are the problem. Get help by consulting a professional trainer.

Have you tried keeping a leash and collar on her and just letting her drag in around behind her when you are out for a walkin your yard or a safe place? It can be a very light lead at first and then move up to a heavier, leather lead. Some puppies think they are being strangled if you pull on their collars. At some point, you convinced her that the collar and lead were a dangerous. Take a BIG step backwards. When you get to the point where you can pick up the lead, every time she pulls, you just say EASY and stop....don't pull back. When she relaxes pressure, give her a treat and then move forward.
Hope this helps.

I did this. Started walking the 3-4 month olds one at a time with a seasoned adult. I have no problem letting them bolt and hang themselves on the end of a tight lead, and they only do it once, maybe twice before they catch on to their stupidity. I do agree that it's also a dominance thing, could be an avoidance tactic too. I have a young dog that throws himself down to avoid things, and another that will roll into a submissive looking pose to avoid things.

Good luck though. I have never had really severe issues like that, we don't really put up with much nonsense in the house from an early age, so they learn it's easier to do what we say than to fight it.

Use her mother ! Walk her with her mother, it is the best way, let them learn from example. Couple them together if you have to.

Obedience classes & various positive training techniques are great and should be used when training a dog or pup of any age, however, we must remember that they are still dogs, pack animals. As such, they must develope a social order in order to live together. If you're pup does not understand that you are dominate over her, she will constantly be challening you. Obviously, this is not a good thing. Once a dog understands their place and ranking, they will fit better into your social structure and you will have a much easier time training them.

Social order is something they must all learn through interactions. A pup or dog that pulls on a leash this way, has not yet learned it place and is challenging you. This is normal, but not acceptable. To let them pull and throw their fit will not hurt them, they are the ones doing all the challenging, while you simply stand by and wait it out. Once it's over and they settle down, they have realized who is in charge. You simply cannot train a dog until it is submissive to you. I don't mean timid or afraid, I mean submissive. Don't confuse these terms.

The words "dominance," "who's boss," "in charge," "alfa", etc, should not be seen in a negative mannor. They are simply words used to describe a very real situation. To let them realize their place in your pack, even if that means just their human family with no other dogs, is quite nessacary. To teach them their place is not a bad thing and doesn't have to mean harshness or pain, it's just a way of teaching them in a way they will understand. Dogs speak a lanuage of dominace and submission, they is how they communicate, learn, and survive. Speak to them on their own level in their own language and they will learn more quickly and with greater ease. They will not fear you as the alfa, they will respect you.

Dogs are not pack animals. And even if they were,
pack order is only relevant for dividing tasks during
hunting.

Humans, on the other hand, are very focussed on dominance in their social relationships.

I certainly do appreciate all the responses, most were very helpful! Thank you.
I have trained many Labrador puppies in my time, just never seen one quite like this one.
I have had a few that fought the leash the first time or two, but it was an easy fight, they gave up quickly and went on to walk and show without a problem.
This just has not worked with my little devil child.
I have let her do her rolling around and when she stops, it's no better the next time I put pressure on her.
I like the circling idea someone had and have tried it, however this puppy glues herself to my ankles and puts her head between my feet. It is almost impossible to move her out of this position without actually picking her up with both hands.
She is very strong and makes herself weigh about 10 times more than she probably really does
It’s very weird, the way she puts her head down to ground, I think so she has leverage against me. The rest of her body is up and the tail wagging, never stops.
Perhaps she thinks this is funny? I sure don't.
I think I could deal better with her if she only was throwing fits trying to get away from the leash but with her so close to my feet and legs too, I can't get away from her enough to move us both in any direction. It's like she purposely trips me!
I have only used a regular rope slip lead on this puppy so far, as I do with all of mine.
I was hesitant to use a choke because of her fits and did not want to injure her.
I could try a harness maybe.
As for the dominance discussion, yes, this puppy is dominant. This puppy is not well liked by my adults because of her strong personality. She is a very ‘in your face’ kind of temperament with the others and attempts to act dominant with them. She will do the head and feet over their backs trick and as you can imagine, it doesn’t usually go well.
I have to be very careful who she is allowed with. I want her with a dog that will teach her that’s not acceptable but not one that will actually kill her in the process.
So yes, she does have some things we need to work out with her behavior.
She is not a "bad" dog, although I know she sounds that way from this discussion!
I don't have any obedience classes around, we live too far.
I have done obedience with many of dogs, so I do have the basics myself.
I really do not want her to learn to sit on lead either.
I guess I’m just very frustrated right now.
I did not do anything different with this pup than with any others I have raised in the past.
Thanks and I will keep you posted on our progress.

Raymond I think you need to go back to Dog school 101.......
Go sit down, get a bag of popcorn and turn on the National Geo channel.
Maybe you could learn a little something about animals??
Here's the basics:
There are Prey animals -
And there are Predators (dogs fall into this catagory)

With all due respect to you, as I do not wish to get into a heated debate or agrument of any kind, your opinions aside, it happens to be a well documented and proven fact that dogs ARE indeed pack animals. I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary. They live in families, they are social animals, and as such a social order is a must otherwise there would be only chaos. You may dissagree with the facts, but please do not misreprsent what a dog is.

Now it may be a fact that many humans are obsesed with issues of dominace and submission, but that is a serperate issue atogether.

You need to read my research and book.

Your ideas say more about you than about dogs.

It sounds like she needs more than a slip lead. I wouldn't use a chain (choke) collar on her either, because it wouldn't be effective and she could hurt herself. While I have never used a Halti type "collar", it might be what she needs because of what she does with her head - "control the head, control the dog". Be calm, but firm - "friendly military" is a term I like.

Now that you put it that way, you're right!!
I never had much faith in those things, seems like a "pet" kind of training tool but you're right, the head IS the problem!
I will be going out and buying a halter lead tomorrow
Thanks!

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Replying to:

It sounds like she needs more than a slip lead. I wouldn't use a chain (choke) collar on her either, because it wouldn't be effective and she could hurt herself. While I have never used a Halti type "collar", it might be what she needs because of what she does with her head - "control the head, control the dog". Be calm, but firm - "friendly military" is a term I like.

I had a bitch just like this and it was not a dominant thing. She was very submissive. She did get better with lots of work - other dogs and dragging the leash, but was never happy with a leash and collar on.

Second, be careful who and when you advise using a haltie. My vet "loves" them due to all of the upper neck injuries that they bring his way.

Lastly, I am so honored that you are on our forum Dr Coppinger. I have read and reread your book and anything that I can find that you have written. I have also recommended your book - "Dogs" to anyone who will listen. I even took the book with me when I gave a speach in South Africa and I know of several people who were on Borders the next day buying it.

JanisG

have you tried luring her with a treat just in front of her nose, basically just above your knee level while you move forward? I use string cheese with my hand folded over it long ways...let them nibble and then move forward...most pups follow the cheese. Move a few steps reward with another nibble. Another way to lure is a toy on a stick...I use a one of those cat teasing toys...bounce the toy to get pups attention move forward keeping toy bouncing but just out of reach. You might also try letting pup get use to the lead by attaching it to a buckle collar- and letting pup wear the lead and drag it long....picking it up now and then and try walking a few steps giving lots of praise. You need to make wearing a lead fun with no pressure, if you are getting frustrated pup will pick up on it. Maybe have someone else work with the puppy or find a puppy obedience class. Most of all, lots of praise and remember 6 months is still very much puppy.

Peanut butter on a wooden spoon is great also as an enticement to move forward...sticky enough even the most fearful or willful puppies forget the lead and focus on trying to get the sticky treat off the spoon...sometimes diversion is a good method to have in your training bag.I prefer the extra crunchy because it takes longer for the pup to work on the treat. You could get 10-15 ft before the pup realizes shes moving with the lead and you.I've used this in both obedience classes and with my own willful girl. Trick will be to get her head up....I'm not a gentle leader or halti lead fan because of the possible neck injuries already discussed.
Best of luck and Happy New Year
Lisa M

Just a little warning about the Halti - many dogs need to get used to wearing it first, and some never like it, but others do very well. Good luck with your pup - I'm sure you'll hit on something.

Hi,

I agree with the harness people-am just doing the same with my two 5- month olds, and it is SO much more comfortable and easier on all concerned than chokers, haltis or moxons. Dogs DO get used to haltis and don't really "learn" to be docile, they're just "retained"! Try walking with a completely strange dog-usually, these problems also come from a lack of being "off the farm" and relatively little socialization, other than amongst the kennelmates.

I not sure if this was already said but if not, try this. If you have a fenced in area for your dog to be secure, put an old lead on her and let the dog run around with the rest of the group. They will stomp on the lead and your dog will get it caught and feel the pull without associating it with you. I was taught to do this by a very experienced breeder and it works everytime.

op, anon breeder
I have tapped the resources of some very experienced obedience instructor friends and would like to email their recommendations to you...could you provide email addy?
Thanks
Lisa M