I just got a MB-F premium list and noticed there's a new dog show classification in it -- "Amateur-Owner-Handler." When I checked the AKC web site, it lists this as a regular class, effective January 1, 2009. Out of curiousity, I looked again at the Big Apple Sporting Society Show superintended by Rau and it lists a "Amateur Handler Class" as well. Sounds like an attempt to level the playing field for owner-handlers! Things are looking up for us amateurs!

It was thought that it would replace the Novice class but that is not the case.

what changes,the judges forgive/overlook the way the dog is shown because the class is for amateurs?

No, it gives new or owner handlers a chance to compete against each other without professional handlers in the ring. It helps to build confidence and to hone their skills without pressure. Any judge worth their salt is going to find the best dog no matter if it is handled well or not. I believe AKC is also going to have year end awards for amatuer owners similar to what they do in Quarter Horses (AQHA).

There were always "amateur owner" classes for us at the horse shows. I have always wished they would do this for the dog shows as well! Yea!

Not only does it give amateurs their own class it also is an advertisement to get more money. AKC needs to make more money... and making a class appeal to beginners seemed the best way. They believe that more money will come in with beginners not being afraid to show and having their own class.

I personally think that it will not work. Why does it matter if beginners compete against professionals? it is suppose to be about the dog right? and When the beginner wins the class, won't they have to compete against the professional that won the other class? Its not like they are escaping the professionals.

Were you ever in a class when you were new with a handler running up your rear, or standing out to block the judges view of your dog, or giving you no room to set your dog up? Did that make you feel intimidated? It is not just the pros that do it and not all handlers are that way, but it sure happens. As far as AKC doing it to make money what is wrong with that? they do need to make money to compensate for the loss of registration fees that is the facts of survival. I for one hope it is a huge sucess.

i have no problem with the akc making money.

i personally think judges are going to over look the winner from that class unless they are spectacular. Thats just my opinion.

and if someone is running up on you in the ring or standing to close, and you care about your dog and winning, i hope u would speak up and say something!

How many dogs do you know take the points from the novice class? Seems this class is another class to put the dog in if it is not ready to compete in open for the points

I think it is marvelous that a newcomer could go in and win a class without competition from handlers. That is what is important to them and it can certainly boost their confidence.

Just as a side issue, I was sorry to see the Novice class discontinued. I used that class for showing young adult dogs that had no ring experience - usually their first weekend out. I have put many points on dogs from that class - including quite a few majors. If the only thing you were asking the judge to forgive is ring manners, that was the perfect class. If the dog was not of the quality and condition to win, why enter it at all? I never felt a judge ingored my entry because it was in Novice class.

Why are you all assuming only people new to showing are going to use this class? There are many owner handlers very skilled at showing their own dogs, as good as the pros, they could also utilize this class as a way to get away from pros and possible politics and at least get into the winners class and get a second look. By "amateur" the AKC is referring to someone who has never gotten paid for showing a dog, not someone new to showing.

I would think a seasoned breeder would not enter "Amateur" since they are not one. You hardly see a big name breeder in novice either.
I would think Amateur owner would have a "stipulation" as novice does. I myself would not enter Amateur just because I am not one since I've been showing for 25 years.

If politics are involved, your dog may get a second look from the amateur class but the pros will get the points.

IMHO, the only thing that will make dog shows more fair to us Labrador exhibitors with our often huge entry is to give points to the reserve winners dog and that is just a start. This weekend Judy Heim is judging 100 Labs at Fitchburg, MA, an all-breed show. From what I have seen in the breed ring lately, at least 5 of those dogs will be deserving of the points.

If anything, the "political" judge can put up two dog, one shown by a handler and one shown by the amateur and still get the brownie points with the handler.

With the economy the way it is and with dog shows being so expensive, it is way too much money for most of us to pursue a championship even with a very good dog. I don't think that we want champions to strictly come out of the homes of the wealthy.

Okay..I am putting down my megaphone.

*I would think a seasoned breeder would not enter "Amateur" since they are not one. You hardly see a big name breeder in novice either.
I would think Amateur owner would have a "stipulation" as novice does. I myself would not enter Amateur just because I am not one since I've been showing for 25 years.*

There were plenty of experienced and seasoned handlers who used the Novice class at specialties or supported entries. When they had a number of entries and ran out of places to put a dog/bitch, they'd use the Novice. I've seen many well known breeders in Novice and I imagine we'll be seeing them in Amateur, too. I've been in dogs for 30 years. If I had filled Open, Am Bred and BBX and had another adult that I wanted to show myself, I'd enter Novice/Amateur. It's not just for inexperienced handler/dogs.

I'm sorry, but didn't Carol Heidl win at Potomac with a Novice Bitch. At least that's what I had heard ;)

I remember a yellow Borador dog that was WD at the National from Novice years ago. I always liked the class for just what it meant - dogs that were new to the ring. Since qualification for the class was limited and very specific, a dog would likely only be in that class at a first set of shows - when the dog was truly a "novice"

Amateur owner handler class doesn't seem to have any real purpose to my thinking, but others may find it interesting. I guess I think of dog shows as being about the DOGS, not about the exhibitors

The word Amateur from the dictionary:
"a person inexperienced or unskilled in a particular activity"

Any seasoned breeder that enters Amateur that has been showing for years, shame on them. Tacky tacky tacky. Let these newcomers have their class for petes sake.

My take on it is that is a class where a pro will not be in it and at least one dog will have a chance to win without the judge looking up to see who is at the end of the lead. And give you a chance for the pts. Anybody who is not a pro can enter the class and it does not mean you do not know what you are doing.

We must be looking in different dictionaries because mine says "An amateur is generally considered a person attached to a particular pursuit, study, or science, without formal training or pay."

There are also amateur field trials and championships, which means the dog was run by someone who was not a paid professional trainer, same concept I believe.
In the beginning I don't think you will see this class used much, but if it takes off then I think you will be seeing exhibitors with all degrees of handling experience in it, just like in the other classes. Another option to also put a young dog in who may not be mature enough for open. If you did not breed the dog then your only choice after 12-18 is Ambred or open, but now there is another choice.

Although the early information from the AKC involved replacing the Novice class with the AOH class, cooler heads prevailed, and Novice remains.

Both are "optional" classes, so I imagine quite a few all-breed shows will choose to discontinue Novice, but it's a nice option for specialties.

Amateur owner handler class doesn't seem to have any real purpose to my thinking

I get really nervous and knowing that everyone else in the class is as new as I am, and as bumbling as I am will help.

Also, the expectation and patience of the judge might be different in that class than in the open classes - knowing that the handler is a beginner, the judge might be a little more patient or kind.

I think that some of us who are really new at this game just want to learn enough and get enough experience to the point where we feel we can compete in the other classes. That's my way of thinking about it.

Thanks for posting that information. I knew the recommendation was to "replace" novice with AOH and am very glad it did not happen that way. Novice class is a perfect place for truly novice dogs - regardless of the handler.

As to AOH, well.... it will be interesting to see who enters those classes. I have a sort of jaundiced eye about how it will be used.

Novice classes are used by ALL, when breeders enter mulitple dogs, and need classes such as this to get all the dogs in the ring, that is their purpose whether or not that was it's original intention or not.

i for one will be using this class if offered at any spring specialities i attend
reason being i have 2 young girls who will just be out of the 12-18 month class, one is UK bred so instead of open this class will be nice for her as she is not mature enough for open.and the other girl can still go in novice .. LeeAnne

As judge, would you find yourself prejudiced to the dogs and handlers who enter this class under you?

taken from the book:

am·a·teur
Pronunciation: ˈa-mə-(ˌ)tər, -ˌtu̇r, -ˌtyu̇r, -ˌchu̇r, -chər
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Latin amator lover, from amare to love
Date: 1784
1 : devotee , admirer
2 : one who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport as a pastime rather than as a profession
3 : one lacking in experience and competence in an art or science

What dictionary do YOU have?
Note #3.

Heck, I am so oblivious that I likely wouldn't know what class was in the ring until I marked the winners
Seriously, I am focused on the dogs and most judges I have spent time around are also. We might notice what COLOR of skirt or jacket someone has on as a marker, but I seldom notice a face until I smile (have to give everyone a smile!) and hand out the ribbons. In the Winners class, you just judge the dogs as if it were a single class (thus the name), so it doesn't matter what previous class the dogs came from. Some judges may do it differently, but most I have talked to are very focused on the dogs all the way through. That is why I am so dismayed when many exhibitors complain about politics. I certainly do not see it in action much from my experience as exhibitor or judge.

As to giving some leeway to an inexperienced handler, I think most judges do that anyway... though some are tough and expect both dog and handler to be all business! I have asked exhibitors to repeat a pattern one or more times so they have every opportunity to get the dog under control and follow the instructions. The purpose is to observe the DOG. If I want something specific done to let me evaluate the dog, I will tell the handler and give them every chance to comply. If you make it about the DOGS, then everything else follows logically. Do I always get what I want from a wild dog and inept handler?? No... but at least I tried

What I'd like to see is a conformation equivalent to the AFC, a set of classes that only amateur owner/handlers could enter to actually win points. Now that would be a money maker for AKC, as people would enter both the open and the amateur classes just as they do in field trials, and you could get TWO conformation titles on your dogs. Perhaps there could be two sets of judges at any given show, and maybe there would be fewer classes needed in the amateur competition. I would suggest either that national breed clubs could decide whether or not to offer the other title or that it is restricted to breeds at the top end of the point schedule, as it doesn't make much sense to have it in breeds where there are only 4 or 5 dogs required for a major and/or you seldom see a professional handler anyway. But in our breed it would still be a very meaningful title and would encourage people to show their own dogs, as well as allowing a venue for those who, for whatever reason, have to hire a pro. It would be a revenue maker for AKC, as people are going to the show anyway, so what's another entry fee?

I think that I would use the class, as well as Novice - if it is available. I often have littermates to show and Novice gives me an extra class to enter, so that I can show 2 and not have to find someone else to show one of my dogs. I think the new class would be better than Novice if you can enter it over and over again (even if the dog places). I got stuck once - misunderstanding the rules about Novice and lost my placement. There are many breeders out there that like to show their dogs that will admit not being the best handler. I don't think ability is what it is all about - it's about the Amatuer status.

I think this will be a great class at specialties where people bring a lot of dogs and need extra classes so that they can all be shown. But heads up, if you don't think it matters to judges what class a dog is in, one of my dogs shown professionally was put in the Am Bred class because we thought he was too young for Open. He did get the points at that show but the judge asked the handler, "what is wrong with the dog that you have him in Am Bred?" This was a very seasoned judge.

We have a youngster that I am getting ready to enter this week and plan to put him in Am. Bred. I have to trust that the judges don't question it too much and hope the handler doesn't have to explain the Why of it. (Yes, there is a reason )

Please do not "put down" the Am-Bred Class.
My friend finished two dogs out of the Am-Bred classes.
Both at Specialites!
I was also told that the European judges consider the Am-Bred class a show of pride as to where the dog was born.
Just another class as far as I am concerned.
At the last speciality I attended, there were more entries in the Am-bred class than the Open classes!
A good judge can find a good dog in whatever class it is shown well in.

I am sure I missed this so be kind......Does the amateur class replace novice or is it in addition to novice?

I thought it replaced the Novice class (that was the original proposal), but that is not true - someone up the thread a bit explained that. The Novice class is still available if a club wants to use it. Both Novice and AOH are "optional" classes and a club does not have to offer them.

Yes, I just checked the AKC site. It appears to be in addition to Novice (not replacing it). It is placed between novice and bred-by.

I like that a lot. One more chance to get into winners. I will be proud to enter that class.

PS Regarding an earlier post...

I have always thought that when there is a major, the reserve dog and bitch should get 1 point. I never thought about why so much, I guess it just intuitively seemed like the right thing to do. The fact that it gives the judge more flexibility to play politics and reward a deserving nobody is an interesting angle.

I agree with the above about the point and majors.

Also it would be nice if this new class was truly for amateurs. Maybe a stipulation could be that the owner has never finished any dog to his Championship? That would stop the big owners from using it. Leaving Novice class for the dog that doesn't have 3 firsts.

That would be in keeping with the application of the same principle in Obedience using the A and B categories. I only showed in Obedience twice, but was never eligible for A... my name was on several dogs that co-owners had shown to titles. Oh, well.

I don't see much hope for changing the rules for at least 5 years. They will have to see how the class is used and get feedback from the fancy.

I think most of you are missing the point of what the intent was in making an amateur class. It is intended for non professionals. It is not intended for beginners only. It is not intended for the more experienced only. It is just a class that eliminates the pros. Perhaps the use of the word amateur is the problem, as it has different definitions. But, I think it is to be used like the Olympics used to be. All amateurs, but in no way beginners or in any way less quality or experience. I think the AKC hopes it to be used by dog owners, not just newbies trying to learn the ropes.

Like in the horse world...amateur owner hunter or jumper classes...very nice pricey horses with experienced owner/riders who are just not pros. I guess that is how I would interpret it's intended use, coming from a horse background!

Exactly! So many here seem to think it is for inexperienced handlers. I think it should be like the bred by class, but for people who did not breed the dog they own. Good, quality dogs!

Does the AKC have a description or rules for the class on the web site?

I think it will be nice. A class without professionals. Love the idea. I do get tired of them getting in front of me, close to me, throwing toys when my dog needs to be set up. I have shown for years and will love to go in this class. Also think it will be good when you have two dogs the same age. I sure do not see it as beginners. Thats not the idea. Sure hope it does not go that way.

Amateur-Owner-Handler – For dogs that are at least six months of age that are not champions. Dogs must be handles in the class by the registered owner of the dog and is limited to exhibitors who have not, at any point in time, been a professional dog handler, AKC approved conformation judge, or employed as an assistant to a professional handler (effective January 1, 2009) (optional class).

"handled by the registered owner" Looks like I should have listed hubby on those papers

Also, I have to agree with about those toy tossing professionals who continually step forward towards the judge. He steps up, blocking me, I step up and then so does he. It's almost (almost) comical.

so this class is for dogs over 6 mos. of age up to ...

I love Peggy's post above. Not only do I think it is a good idea, but I never really thought about what an amateur field champion really was. Do I have it right, there are field trials where professional handlers are prohibited??? I like that idea for conformation...AC, Amateur Champion.

I also like the other post suggesting something consistent with Novice A and Novice B in obedience. If the new amateur class turns out to be really popular, we could have an amateur A and amateur B. Once you have pointed/put a major on/finished a dog, you can't be in A anymore.

Does Maureen or anyone know if these ideas were part of the preliminary discussions?

I guess it would be ACH...

Why would Maureen know that? She doesn't even think the class is worth while at all. Interesting to see her comments considering she is going to be judging it. I thought AKC didn't want their judges voicing their opinions like that.

The Amateur is a separate stake offered at just about every trial that has an Open or Limited (Limited is for dogs that are all age qualified by winning or placing second in Qualifying- a way to limit entries in the Open to dogs that are really ready). A pro may be handling the dog in Open, but an amateur must handle in Amateur, and the stake is often restricted to owners. This is at the discretion of the hosting club. The story I have heard is that the stake was invented because some people wanted to make the owners, who were incredibly wealthy in those days, the Harrimans, Belmonts, etc., handle their own dogs. Most field trial dogs are professionally trained and handled to the FC, but the AFC gives the owner a chance to shine with his/her dog. There is a national amateur championship stake, and the winner of that is highly prized. As in the conformation world, many amateurs are very experienced, so the competition is tough. Owners brag about dogs doing a double header, winning both the Open and the Amateur on the same weekend. Usually the Open is run on different days from the Amateur. As I remember, a dog that wins or places in Open stakes handled by an amateur gets points toward both titles.