Maybe this is a dumb question, but if a dog is listed on OFA site with hips only, does that mean that elbows weren't done or did elbows not pass? I thought if elbows didn't pass it would be listed. Please set me straight on this.

negative information is only shown if the owner of the dog releases and signs authorization. You can assume numerous things: Failure of joints, didnt bother doing them for whatever reason, etc...

If a person does hips, there should be no reason not to do elbows as well. I think most people agree when elbows are not listed, they most likely did not pass otherwise they would be listed. You can always go straight to the source and ask the person who owns the dog for the correct information.

I had my eye on a dog and when I looked him up, he had elbow scores and no hip scores. I figured that meant he flunked hips. Later I learned he had PennHIP scores that are about as good as they get. You need to ask the owner.

Debbie ~ The easiest thing to do is to call the owner. Why, as other posters intimated, should you presume negative? This way you get the answer and can make up you mind based on a conversation.

The bitch is listed on the breeder's website as OFA Good, Elbows normal. I assumed that was right, but got to looking on OFA website, I could find hips but no elbows. Could be she didn't do elbows and just didn't catch it when she made up website. Other dogs were listed with both. That's why I wondered, if they were done, but didn't pass, was it listed as such. From first poster, if you don't want that info released, they don't. I guess I should have looked into this earlier. I have a dog out of the bitch taking him to do OFA exrays tomorrow. I'm not real concerned. I could ask her. She's reallly nice. The bitch is retired from breeding. I do know that she had another litter after my dog's litter. I really just wanted to know about OFA's procedure about listing the results. I thought if she had not passed, it would be on the data list.

NEVER assume anything. If you don't ask most vets to do the elbows too most won't suggest it! Hips are the only thing the ones i've dealt with will do if the elbows aren't requested.
Aloha,
jackie

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Replying to:

If a person does hips, there should be no reason not to do elbows as well. I think most people agree when elbows are not listed, they most likely did not pass otherwise they would be listed. You can always go straight to the source and ask the person who owns the dog for the correct information.

I have a bitch that passed prelim's as elbows clear at 22 months (we wanted to breed her so thats why 22 months).
She was injured shortly after that and although hips passed at 26 months, the injured elbow did not.
It was grade I on one side.
It could be a simple thing like that.
I have never hidden it and was 100% honest with puppy buyers about why and how.

If you gave OFA permission to post the prelim results then you have proof positive about the elbows even if they were injured afterwards.

I would assume that most people are x-raying elbows these days. I know that many did not years ago.

That being said, many breeders will not sign off on the OFA form that says negative results will be listed in the OFA database. More breeders are being willing to post negative results, but I would say that they are still in the minority.

When I look on the OFA site, I assume that if there are a lot of "holes" in a list of progeny, that they didn't pass-especially if it is hips or elbows. Of course if I really wanted to know for sure, I would ask. Often I am just researching, and it is not worth a phone call to find out for sure. I would really want to be interested in using a particular stud before I went asking about unlisted clearances.

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Replying to:

Maybe this is a dumb question, but if a dog is listed on OFA site with hips only, does that mean that elbows weren't done or did elbows not pass? I thought if elbows didn't pass it would be listed. Please set me straight on this.

Wrong. OFA REMOVES prelim results if you do permanent xrays later. Regardless of outcome.
This is what happened to me.
The prelim results were there, hips and elbows and when the elbow failed at 26 months, the perm hips showed up and the prelim elbows disappeared!
I called them.
This is their policy.
I only have the original prelim sheet they mailed to me with the normal elbows.

The hips or elbows could have also been done through another registry outside the country. If you have questions always inquire to the dog or bitch owner.

Wrong assumption. On this forum someone posted
statistics that 30% don't do elbows.

Why wouldn't people be doing elbows this day and age?

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Replying to:

Wrong assumption. On this forum someone posted
statistics that 30% don't do elbows.

I think most do elbows, if not they just don't care and go on breeding bad elbows and know they have them. If I don't see both on OFA I find another dog. Sorry, some go to a Dr. and get a note ? Some go to another registar to get them "passed". All sorts of games you can play. Just got enough sense not to fall for it.

Because they don't want to know, or don't want to pay.

The easiest assumption is what you have already stated...either they were cheap and didn't do it (I dont' accept NOT knowing it was necessary as an excuse), or they didn't pass. So to clear that up, you make a phone call. Simple as that. Or an email. Hopefully the owner of the dog in question will be honest.

Don't make asumptions.

I have a client who purchased a companion dog for a very active lifestyle. She did hip x-rays just to be sure the dog is sound, but didn't to elbows.

MK

I had a good friend buy one of my pups for her husband as a hunting companion. She raises and shows another breed. As a effort to help me, she had her hips done before they spayed her just to check them. She never thought about elbows because her breed does not have an issue and her vet did not bring it up. Her bitch came back and Excellent but never had the elbows done.

If you have a question...go to the source and ask. Making assumptions just perpetuates false truths. Especially if you then share these assumptions with others.

There is one idea you're leaving out . . . OFA Data Input errors. If you have the dog's AKC registration number, you're pretty safe. However, if you're looking it up by name . . . well, its anybody's ball game.

"NEVER assume anything. If you don't ask most vets to do the elbows too most won't suggest it! Hips are the only thing the ones i've dealt with will do if the elbows aren't requested.
Aloha,
jackie"


When did you last look at an OFA form? It lists both hips and elbows and the vet does both to fulfill the form with their signature.

Yes, I ran into this,too. While looking up some of the dogs I wanted to check, I couldn't find one that I knew without a doubt had had everything done. Finally, found it with the name spelled differently. I did try looking under other spellings for the the bitch in question...haven't found it, but it could still be there somewhere. I really wondered more about how OFA handled the posting of results. However, I went in today to have exrays done, and the vet did ask me if I wanted both hips and elbows done.Very experienced vet that does ofa exrays often

Never assume. Ask the breeder if you ever have a question.

Thats right.
Hopefully they will be upfront with you and if you don't like their explanation. move on!

"Wrong. OFA REMOVES prelim results if you do permanent xrays later. Regardless of outcome.
This is what happened to me.
The prelim results were there, hips and elbows and when the elbow failed at 26 months, the perm hips showed up and the prelim elbows disappeared!
I called them.
This is their policy.
I only have the original prelim sheet they mailed to me with the normal elbows. "

Good policy, unfortunately people use the pelim. report as "proof" to unsuspecting buyers.

Why in the world is that "unfortunate"?
It shows the whole story, passed at such and such date/age....
Isn't that considered honesty????

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Replying to:

"Wrong. OFA REMOVES prelim results if you do permanent xrays later. Regardless of outcome.
This is what happened to me.
The prelim results were there, hips and elbows and when the elbow failed at 26 months, the perm hips showed up and the prelim elbows disappeared!
I called them.
This is their policy.
I only have the original prelim sheet they mailed to me with the normal elbows. "

Good policy, unfortunately people use the pelim. report as "proof" to unsuspecting buyers.

"Isn't that considered honesty????"

Not if they don't mention that the dog didn't pass finals.

Excuse me but "I" know that elbows NEED to be done, what I said was that unless you ASK most vets to do them they don't tell you to! I know what's on the OFA form but I guess it's not something that most vets think about telling their clients need to be done when they take them if for OFA's... i've had numerous people that got dogs from me that had to go back and have them do the elbows because their vet didn't tell them it needed to be done.
Aloha,
jackie

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Replying to:

"NEVER assume anything. If you don't ask most vets to do the elbows too most won't suggest it! Hips are the only thing the ones i've dealt with will do if the elbows aren't requested.
Aloha,
jackie"


When did you last look at an OFA form? It lists both hips and elbows and the vet does both to fulfill the form with their signature.

Jackie B.S. Labradors quoted-
"Excuse me but "I" know that elbows NEED to be done, what I said was that unless you ASK most vets to do them they don't tell you to! I know what's on the OFA form but I guess it's not something that most vets think about telling their clients need to be done when they take them if for OFA's... i've had numerous people that got dogs from me that had to go back and have them do the elbows because their vet didn't tell them it needed to be done.
Aloha,
jackie"


Jackie-BlackSands, there is no need to get upset with me. I did not ask you what *you* think needs to be done. I would like to know what do these vets that don't know about x-raying elbows fill out in the clearly marked elbow section of the form?

a) Not applicable.
b) I don't know how to do elbows.
c) Whoops I forgot that part of the anatomy.
d) I didn't ask the owner what to do.

I personally find when using a vet who is familiar with OFA x-rays they never fumble when its time to x-ray both hips and elbows. The form clearly states it. If they know how to read they should never falter.

Maybe you need to tell your co-owners or buyers that do OFA x-rays to go to specific vets that clearly know the OFA form and proper placement of the dog.

We don't have this problem where I live. If we know what needs to be done, we make sure it is by a recommended orthopaedist or vet that knows all about OFA x-rays.

A good mentor will also assist their co-owners where to have this done. Many breeder post on here to find out who to use for their OFA x-rays in a specific area their co-owned dog lives in.

When elbows aren't done today, I will ask the owner personally if I want to know why. Most of the time, the Labrador did not pass their elbow clearance with a mild, unilateral Grade I or worse.

Excuse ME but there is a selection of JUST hips or JUST elbows on the form you submit to OFA!
Hips AND elbows are certainly NOT mandatory!!

In your other post it sounded as if you thought "I" didn't know what the OFA form looked like.... might try re reading what you write before you post it.

You are more fortunate than we are here that you have the option to refer your owners to a orthopedist vet, we have all of ONE board certified orthopedist vet, I do tell my owners and co owners what needs to be done but them getting it done is another story, they tend to forget the elbows and it's not just dogs i've bred that haven't had elbows done because the vets didn't tell the owners, it's other people that come to me asking to use a stud dog from me. I know what vet I like to do my dogs xrays and I can "suggest" to others what vet to use BUT in the end it is their decision and people don't always follow good advise.
Aloha,
jackie

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Replying to:

Jackie B.S. Labradors quoted-
"Excuse me but "I" know that elbows NEED to be done, what I said was that unless you ASK most vets to do them they don't tell you to! I know what's on the OFA form but I guess it's not something that most vets think about telling their clients need to be done when they take them if for OFA's... i've had numerous people that got dogs from me that had to go back and have them do the elbows because their vet didn't tell them it needed to be done.
Aloha,
jackie"


Jackie-BlackSands, there is no need to get upset with me. I did not ask you what *you* think needs to be done. I would like to know what do these vets that don't know about x-raying elbows fill out in the clearly marked elbow section of the form?

a) Not applicable.
b) I don't know how to do elbows.
c) Whoops I forgot that part of the anatomy.
d) I didn't ask the owner what to do.

I personally find when using a vet who is familiar with OFA x-rays they never fumble when its time to x-ray both hips and elbows. The form clearly states it. If they know how to read they should never falter.

Maybe you need to tell your co-owners or buyers that do OFA x-rays to go to specific vets that clearly know the OFA form and proper placement of the dog.

We don't have this problem where I live. If we know what needs to be done, we make sure it is by a recommended orthopaedist or vet that knows all about OFA x-rays.

A good mentor will also assist their co-owners where to have this done. Many breeder post on here to find out who to use for their OFA x-rays in a specific area their co-owned dog lives in.

When elbows aren't done today, I will ask the owner personally if I want to know why. Most of the time, the Labrador did not pass their elbow clearance with a mild, unilateral Grade I or worse.

"might try re reading what you write before you post it."

Maybe you should too. Are you always so nasty Jacky? This is not the first time I saw like this. Who made you DoG of the labby world?

Please you all, it is not what the form says it is that we know that the Labradors need both hips and elbows done. There are more and more bad elbows out there and it is because we pretend they pass or just not a big deal ! One pup in pain with a bad elbow is a big deal. Jackie know what you are getting at. Anyway some can play mind games all day just do the clearances.

probably the elbows did not pass
Call the owners