What have others done when you have a litter, and take a deposit on a puppy, only to find that he is really something that you need to keep? I have a very small litter, and had planned to keep a nice yellow male if I had one. Well, unfortunately we lost the yellow male during delivery. Many people told me that I didn't need another black male, so I felt it was safe to take a deposit on him. Well, he is gorgeous, and I can't bear to let him go. He is only 4 weeks old, but so far he is everything I have dreamed of. Would you stand by the taking of the deposit and place him with the family (all the while crying your eyes out!), or offer them another puppy or a refund of their deposit?

Laurie ~ If you bred to keep something, even if it is the wrong color, I would keep him. Handle it candidly and assist the family in finding another boy, you may have to go to another breeder but if he is what you want then do what you have to do.
Feel free to shoot me an email if you need help finding a black boy, I may be able to help you.
Good luck!!

Be Careful as in some states there is a law that dictates if you take a deposit --you have sold the puppy and must offer them a puppy that is equal to the one they put a deposit on. Which means the potential owner can take action...

Not to say you should not keep it, but do think if the home is a wonderful home and would the dog be really loved. It may be a perfect home for this dog and you keep another from the litter. Just a thought.

I can't add to what has been said except to mention that I always tell everyone that "pick" male and female are mine regardless of color. I don't choose my puppy until 8 weeks so they may not know which is theirs until then.
It's worked fairly well so far for me.

I tell everyone the first 3 puppies are mine. I do not take money deposits except on duplicate colors/sexes. [ie. 2 black girls , I take 1 deposit on a black girl, 3 yellow boys , I take deposits on 2]

I suggest in the future you tell people they may have to give when it comes to color. You hope you can offer what they most want, but tell them in order to be sure they will have a puppy, they need to be flexible on color.

I understand what you are saying, but that isn't the issue here. I shouldn't have, but I listened to others who told me that I didn't need another black male. They probably are right, but I am afraid that I will let this pup go and kick myself forever for having done so. The litter was all black except for the yellow male that we lost. I have never taken a deposit and then changed my mind. I have decided to keep the pup, and will do what I can within reason to make the family happy. I will use this as a learning experience for future situations.

I don't envy your situation. It's a tough one to be in, and at the end of the day you have do what you feel is best. Good luck with the pup, and I hope everything goes well concerning the family. I hope they are gracious and understanding.

When I have a litter I make it very clear to anyone interested that I have the first option to keep MY first pick female and first pick male. (my first pick might be different from what a puppy buyer is looking for) I don't breed a litter without intending to keep something for myself so why risk giving away the best.
I explain to people that they won't know which puppy is theirs for sure until 7 to 8 weeks (unless there are those I can rule out sooner).

Now you've already taken the deposit without telling the people your pick could change which makes it a bit harder. Is there another black male in the litter? Since they are only 4 weeks old you could explain to the family that you breed with wanting to keep the best for yourself and you can't be sure the black male they wanted will be available. Ask them if they will consider a different puppy in the litter if you decide he is staying and that you can't be sure of that until he is 7 to 8 weeks old (because heaven forbid his bite could go off or he doesn't pass that puppy eye exam -- then he might be available to them). Then make them the offer of returning their deposit now or if there isn't a suitable puppy that you and they can agree on is right for them.

not to be a smart alec...but it looks on your site like you have 25 or more puppies on the ground right now...couldn't you offer them one from another one of your current litters? You even mention on your site that some of the pups are still available...have you mentioned your predicament to the family? Maybe they would have an open mind.

They had been on my list for this particular litter, and I am keeping all of the pups in that litter. I have made the offer, but have not heard back from them, so I am not sure what they will be interested in doing. I just haven't been in this situation before, and wasn't sure what others would do. Hopefully they will be OK with switching litters, but if not I will be glad to help them find what they are looking for or return their deposit...whichever they prefer. Thanks everyone!

with 4 litters on the ground and 2 more coming within the next 2 months, why wouldn't you have plenty of pups to substitute?

Geez Louise

Another good reason to not take too many deposits and to not promise specific puppies.

If all they want is a black boy and you have 4 litters on the ground, why not offer them a substitute. It's rare that I meet a puppy buyer that really has to have a pup out of a specific litter, especially when they are only buying a pet.

Hi-
I will be breeding my girl soon and have a couple who fell in love with her and wanted a yellow female out of her by the male I picked. After many conversations about this and they now understand that I get first pick and they are willing to take the next puppy of either sex, any color. They are now most interested in a healthy, well-adjusted puppy out of this breeding. As other posters have written, always cover yourself by saying that you get first or first and second pick and they may pick from the other puppies available.

To make things easier, I have taken the first or the first and second 'picks' away when clients come to pick their puppies, so their is no, "I want THAT one" and they are looking at the one that they cannot have.

I have been known to 'hide' the really good pick colts/fillies that I have bred for that year also. It just makes it easier for people to pick out a colt or filly and not be distracted by stock that I am keeping that is not for sale.

I do agree that in some states a deposit constitutes a contract. Check it out in your state.
Hope this info helps.
A

I understand that the puppy turned out nice and you might hate yourself forever but your word is all you have. If you let them pick out a puppy and put a deposit on that puppy... it should belong to that person or family.

If you happened to explain how some of the others have said they explain the process of picking out a puppy then you are in the clear. It seems to me if you would have handled it differently, like some of the others have suggested, then I think you could try and keep it and replace with one of the other pups you have on the ground. Letting them pick out their new addition to the family and pay you a deposit and then trying to change the stars is indian giving, greedy, etc.

You could always do the breeding again and hope for a simular result(who knows maybe you would actually get your yellow you were yearning for)!

Now those that have looked at her site and seem to be making an issue at how many litters she has.. JUST SAY WHAT YOU THINK. Don't hide and do it! Sign your name on it! Or otherwise don't say anything at all!

OK Here is what I would do. I would call them up and start by saying, "You are going to kill me but...." This would include what you intend to do to for them to make up for their not getting the puppy in question.

You might be surprised to find they will understand and will accept your solution. However, if they go ballistic, give it up and back down.

When we screen families, we tell them up front why we are doing the breeding and the fact that we are hoping to get future prospects. I have had it happen that my best puppy was going to be the only black male in the litter.

We called them, apologized and were candid as to why we wanted to keep the puppy. I offered a puppy from a future litter or the return of their deposit. I also, did some research and found other reputable breeders that had black males available. At the end of the day, they waited for the next litter and were very pleased with their little boy they brought home.

I think being honest, treating them with respect and explaining the situation goes a long way. Also, we talked to them as soon as we felt that there was a strong chance we would keep the pup.

This is just my experience.

If I was told yes, there's a male puppy for you from this litter, I'd be very disappointed and disillusioned to be told now "no puppy, I'm keeping the male I was going to give to you". If there had always been the condition of "not sure if I, as the breeder, will take from this litter so don't get your hopes up just yet", then I'd be disappointed but it had been explained so - that's the way it goes.

I would request my deposit be returned. If it can happen once, it can happen again. That would be my lesson learned.

I agree - the bigger lesson is to stick to your word. This is a puppy you want, you don't need it. Staying true to your word is the bigger need. You want that from your pet puppy buyers, don't you?

I agree with you to a point...but we plan these litters for a reason. I don't think the average buyer understands the trials and tribulations we go through in this hobby. I know that I do not plan a litter without the intention of keeping the very best from it in order to move forward with. We spend months and sometimes years planning these special litters. We raise these lovely babies with the highest of hopes. Yes, we do want exceptional homes for them and value our pet families very much. However, we also want families who are going to be understanding as well. With our incident, we offered several options...the family was very understanding and because of the care we took with them and our dogs, decided to stay with us and get a pup from a forth coming litter. They felt we were truly invested in what we were producing.

I would have had absolutely no problem refunding the deposit in this situation and it was offered as one of the options. I do think it is how you educate your puppy buyers. If you were my puppy buyer and you could not or would not understand this..then so be it. It is not about money for me...obviously.

Patience is a virtue that is lost on many.

I had a family that met my boy at a show and waited almost a year from him to be bred to one of my girls.
They wanted one of "his" pups - he had charmed them at this dog show

Anyway, I also have been known to hide my picks when families come to pick up their pups.
Tired of hearing, "oh we like THAT one" and now knowing theirs won't measure up in their eyes.
Would hate to think that the family would for the rest of this dogs life, wonder what if they had gotten "that one"...
Not fair to the dog they DID get...

Why not give them the pup? I appears all your litters are sired by your boys. You have 4 litters on the ground, plus that litterwhich you have not listed anywhere,saw no all black litters, plus 2 more on the way? Now you say your keeping the rest of the litter? What is wrong with you? Do the right thing! I hope you have all your puppies left with nobody wanting them.

OK. I was going to let this go. I can't, because I know Laurie will not say anything. This is the exact
reason folks will not ask questions and use their real
names. Laurie is a kind and giving person, she asked so that fellow members of the fancy might help her
with a tough decision. I think the fact that she cared speaks volumes. This was a special litter sired
by a dog that is not hers, they have been planning this litter for sometime. Ended up with 3 pups.
Laurie and her partners Desi and Richard love their
dogs and spend a fortune taking care of them. I know this well as I visited with her bitch when she had her in Raleigh undergoing physical therapy that I bet few would pay to do. I do not think any of us have the right to judge someone. Laurie's question should not have opened her up to the abuse a few of you have dealt her. I can't figure out why anyone would go to her website and count her pups. That had nothing to do with her question. If you ever have the good fortune to meet Laurie, Desi or Richard at a show you
will have friends forever that would always lend a helping hand. Maybe knowing the true character of someone would go a long way. It would not matter how many liters Laurie had they would all get the best care. I hope Laurie finds great homes for her pups,
I am sure she will. You can bet that she will make
the right choice in this matter. I am sure she appreciates all the kind, helpful comments, the others
should be ashamed.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes, I was a bit animated
when posting. (litters not liters)

It's common on this forum for certain people to bash others for what they do.
There have been many victims of this type of slamming and it's ashame it can be done without signing ones name to it.
I bet 99% of the bashers wouldn't have much to say if they were held accountable for their actions!!

I'm sure Laurie and Company take wonderful care of all their dogs and litters. I bet they also find wonderful homes for all their puppies. The main thing that was said is it's only a Hobby! So why compromise you word for a hobby. I'm sure the stud that was used could be used again unless God for bid something has happened to him.

Now to the person that said "That is how you educate buyers?" That is how you educate them in what...? That your hobby is more important than your word. That is ridiculous and if you don't agree... SO BE IT!!! I can't believe that keeping a possible Show prospect instead of letting some wonderful family keep a puppy that they picked out is more important than anyone's word? Get a grip and come to the real world. Just because someone else says it is alright or that this is what they do or have done... Doesn't make it right!

Now back on Topic...If the buyer is a family not involved in the show/breeding world then I would say talk to them and feel them out. If their heart was set on this puppy then you need to keep your word. If it is a show/breeder buyer they should understand and if they don't ...it sounds like the general opinion on today's forum is that they should understand and if they dont... SO BE IT???

Have you considered a co-ownership?

Hi again,
I would try to be really honest with the people. If it is a pet family - they might let you subsitute another puppy as other posters have suggested. Another option is to rebreed or co-own. But honesty is always the best policy. You might be surprised, they might let you have the puppy if you are really truthful and explain you situation and why you need the puppy for your program. It might make them feel helpful and a part of your program. Also, if the dog becomes a special show dog you might offer a puppy out of that dog later as incentive. ???
A

I tried to keep my answer on topic to the question asked, and I stand by what I said.

Yes, I'm just an lab pet owner, not a breeder. But like many pet owners we were counting down the weeks when the litter was born and it was confirmed we would get a puppy. So when I read the original question, I was struck with how disappointed I would be. And part of my disappointment would come from being told "yes I have a male puppy for you from that litter" and then being told later on "I changed my mind, I'm going to keep it".

I understand that breeders breed for themselves first. But don't commit dogs to people when you might still change your mind. That's my point. If changing your mind is still a possibility, then say that. "I might change my mind the day you drive here to pick up your puppy, so be prepared."

At some point, you have to stand by your word. You want that from your puppy buyers who are screened and advised on how to raise a healthy happy labrador, we're asked to sign contracts. It's a 2 way street.

(If I picked a litter because of goals in field, or hopes of training up to utility, substitution would be disappointing. There's no guarantees, but it is sometimes part of reason you want to go on the list for a certain breeding. Another thought I had when I read the replies.)

I was referring to the fact that when a family is being interviewed, we do educate them on why we are doing the breeding and how we pick our puppies. Our families do not pick their own puppies. We do explain that we evaluate for our prospects first.

If it was not for "hobby" breeders putting their heart, soul, tears, sweat, and money into this hobby they would not have these wonderful options to choose from. If this puppy buyer is so enamoured with this breeder's dogs, it should matter very little what litter their puppy came from. It should matter more that the puppies were well reared, socialized and given every opportunity to be a wonderful companion for years to come. It sounds to me that this breeder does this and cares very much for her dogs and her puppy buyers. If she did not she would not have posed the question on this forum.

Frankly, I have met breeders who would sacrifice their best stock for the almighty dollar...heck they would probably sacrifice their kin for it. If I were a puppy buyer this would worry me more.

It is not always as easy as just repeating a breeding. Repeats do not always yield what you hoped for. Sometimes dogs are not available, etc.

If the puppy shows that much potential than we would keep him/her or place him/her with a family who has interest in showing. Just think if some of the great dogs in our pedigrees had been bypassed and put in pet homes.

Of course I can only speak for what I do here. But I am upfront with my puppy buyers and therefore have had very little issue. I don't see the issue if the breeder makes every effort to honor the deposit. That was the point of my posts...to reflect how we handled it and our experience...that is what she asked for. You are the one getting in a toot by other's posting their experiences.

I appreciate all of the constructive responses. I have given it serious thought, and have talked with the family. I knew that they had wanted a pup from this litter, as they had been on my list since well before she was bred. They will be a wonderful family, and are interested in putting him in the show ring (as long as he continues to hold together). I was wrong to have snatched the pup away from them, even though my motives were pure. I was honest with them, and although they were disappointed, they understood where I was coming from. The pup will go to this family, and I hope that at some point I may be able to show him, and use him as a stud. All in all, I use this as a learning experience. But most of all I have always hoped that I treat people like I would want to be treated. In my excitment over this puppy, I think I temporarily forgot that part.

Good for you Laurie, I'm so glad this has worked out will for you and the new family

Kudos to you for stepping back and thinking it over. Very candid about yourself too - that's refreshing. Hope this puppy turns out to be everything you hope for.

Laurie...I agree with previous poster (pet puppy buyer), your personal values shining through & so very refreshing to read your words from the heart. Sounds like a possible win-win solution.

For the last 10 years or so, I've always told my buyers ahead of time that I "reserve the right" to pull any puppy (or more than one) that I feel should be kept for a show/breeding prospect, either by myself or another breeder placement ... and that we won't know for sure until 7-8 weeks of age. Pet deposits are on "a puppy", not a specific puppy. I hate to disappoint people at the last minute but sometimes can't be helped. When this happens, I offer their deposit back, an alternate puppy, or a transfer into another upcoming puppy. At least they understand up front. I always feel bad, though, when a nice family misses out on a puppy for any reason.

But, it is YOUR litter. We invest a lot and if you have something special, you should keep him.