If that is what a bitch owner has used to test for PRA as opposed to Optigen?

????????? what??????

Sorry, meant to type PAWSITIVE (InGen)
Blame it on the frozen fingers!!

If I had a carrier stud dog I wouldn't accept it.

If I had a clear stud dog you don't need to do any test if you feel you don't want to.

It would be plain ignorant for anyone NOT to accept it, it is the SAME test as the opitien test, maybe those "newbie" breeders will question it but the smart reputable ones won't.

Since I don't have any stud dogs, my reply is not relevant at all. I do feel you have more confidence in a new company that was specifically set up to circumvent US laws that I do. I certainly don't know that it provides the same test and that the results are reliable. It may be based on the published findings of the research, but I have no reason to be confident of a foreign laboratory with no track record here. Time will tell. When OFA decides to accept their results for certification, I suppose I will also.

Ignorance, like many other things, is in the eye of the beholder

Rules for suckers.

Dear Pawsitive I.D. ™ Customers:

From all of us at InGen, we certainly hope you had a good and safe holiday season and we are looking forward to a terrific 2009.



We have now been (re)operating for several weeks and the response we have received from the breeding community has been incredible. Thank you for all the kind words of encouragement and suggestions on how we can better serve your needs. We are still trying to get all the bugs out of our ordering system but believe we have addressed most of the concerns brought to our attention. Any suggestions are always appreciated.



There is an important area I would like to address concerning intellectual property and what International Genetics is involved in. One of our competitors has put a declaration on their website’s home page (http://www.optigen.com/opt9_impmessage.html) imploring its competitors to respect their intellectual property rights. We believe that is a direct shot at InGen for offering Progressive Rod-Cone Degeneration (PRCD) on our Pawsitive I.D. ™ DNA testing platform. This calls for a response because InGen respects all intellectual property rights and IS NOT infringing on any patents, copy rights or trademarks.



Our competitor has the following patents covering METHODS used to determine if certain breeds of dogs have PRCD. The following patents are from the United States Patent & Trademark Office covering the patent in the United States. They also have similar patents in Canada and The European Union:



USPTO Patent #7,312,037



http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=prcd&s2=cornell&OS=prcd+AND+cornell&RS=prcd+AND+cornell



USPTO Patent #5,804,388



http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=4&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=prcd&s2=cornell&OS=prcd+AND+cornell&RS=prcd+AND+cornell



These are well written, legitimate patents and InGen respects them. However, by putting the following on their website, we feel that our competitor is inferring we are doing something illegal:

“You may have recently received offers from foreign corporation(s) to have your dog tested for prcd outside of the U.S. to avoid patent protection here. However, offering to sell and selling an invention patented in the U.S. are activities that have been found to be violations of U.S. patent law and Optigen expects all parties to honor its intellectual property rights.”

First, the patents in question are utility patents protecting a scientific method within the jurisdiction covered by the patent. A violation of the patent rights would be called either Direct Patent Infringement or Indirect Patent Infringement. For definitions visit

http://www.ipwatchdog.com/patent/patent-infringement/

InGen is processing DNA samples using the PRCD scientific method in The Bahamas at a new laboratory facility belonging to InGen. Extensive research went into determining if the patents filed in the US, Canada & EU had any legal bearing in The Bahamas. The answer was overwhelmingly NO.

Secondly are the PRCD results. Again extensive research was made in reviewing the patents and it is believed that the RESULTS are not covered in the patents. Numerous case precedents were found that support our position here. But to further insure that InGen is not infringing on any patents regardless of supporting case law, it was decided that the entire sales process would be conducted from a Bahamian website and with a Bahamian Internet Service Provider. Also, all sales are processed through an international merchant account provider (Global Collect) and funds deposited into an international bank account. Therefore, when a sale is made, the entire transaction is conducted outside any jurisdiction covered by any patent.

Our competitors may cry foul but everything InGen is doing is within InGen’s rights and InGen is not infringing nor violating anyone’s intellectual property rights. The business world is tough. InGen has found an ethical “Legal Work Around” of the above patents. Maybe instead of complaining about baseless claims of Honoring Intellectual Property Rights our competitors might look to lower their overly inflated testing prices.

InGen is dedicated to helping the dog breeding community with affordable DNA testing with our Pawsitive I.D. ™ product. Every dog that can be identified with any type of inherited genetic disease will improve the health of the breed. It is to that end that InGen is in business.

I will be sending these updates about Pawsitive I.D. ™ from time to time. We have many exciting improvements in the works. If you do not wish to receive these emails, please send us an email to opt out.

Thank you for your business and support!!!!



Rick Dobbins

General Manager

International Genetics, Inc.

Oh, I am a clever fellow.

Never mind all the editorials. In the beginning the battery of tests only cost $49 and included color. Since $49 was less expensive than the other color test providers tests, many of us who only wanted color results and already had done Optigen, ended up getting PRA results using both tests. The Pawsitive test results have always matches Optigen's results.

I'm curious as to whether stud owners are listing the Pawsitive ID results on their websites yet.

If you've done this test do you want to let us know what you're doing with your website? Would you share the URL with us?

this is a BIG world...US patents are just that.
More folks would have stayed with Optigen if they weren't so darn expensive.

sounds like they are sulking over a little competition from a company that didnt let the big boys stomp them down.

Economics 101 = Marketing, customer service, price and reliability are all important factors in buying services and products.
Pawsitive ID, Optigen, Camelot, Minitube, Clone all compete for our $$. Right now most of us are shopping with our wallets, not just blindly writing checks.
Had Optigen kept their promise on price the door would not have been open so wide for others to compete for customers.

DNA is DNA
it has been proven through many breeders that Pawsitive ID's results have been the same as Optigen.

Why wouldn't a stud owner accept a valid test that shows the results?

When it comes to science, anecdotal reports are not a measure of validity. If the processes used are not the same and/or the equipment quality varies, the results may NOT always be the same. As with any "cut rate/foreign made" product, buyer beware.

Maureen - once again you are boorish and repetitive. Yes, we know you love Optigen and also want everyone to EIC test their dogs. I have no idea why you are so outspoken other than the fact that you like to beat everyone over the heads with your OPINIONS like they are facts, which they are not.

Optigen has competition. It should make them a better company in the end - too bad, so sad. They should have kept their promises about the cost of the test - if they did, so many people wouldn't be using the new company.

I see no reason why people have to get personally insulting about differences in approach to a situation. I have posted twice in this thread. Both comments were directly to a specific point AND were FACT based. OFA/CHIC does not accept ANY DNA reports from InGen. Different companies can run the same basic tests in different laboratory conditions and get different results. Both of these FACTS are true at face value. They are not simply opinions, which (humorously) is all that your post contains.

You are certainly welcome to have any opinion you like on the real topic and manage your stud dogs accordingly. I have just tried to point out two facts that OTHERS (whose minds are not already set in stone) might want to consider. Your personal insults have nothing to do with the topic and only make YOU look boorish and repetitive as well as petty. Stick to the topic and stick to the facts.

"...OFA/CHIC does not accept ANY DNA reports from InGen..."

Not good.

""...OFA/CHIC does not accept ANY DNA reports from InGen...""

They will, give it a little time.

So does this mean that IF I lived in Bermuda or the Bahamas or another foreign country the only registry accepted to post on the OFA website is Optigen?
Will Labradata accept other data suppliers in their data base?

Even though this topic has dropped "over the edge" of the page, I did spot your question.

1. OFA/CHIC will not accept any results from InGen. Period. It doesn't matter what country you live in. InGen is not recognized as a documented (by US standards) provider of verified DNA tests. Perhaps they will be some day, but not at this time.

2. LabraData is a document database. It indexes and stores all documents about a dog submitted by the owner. If you wish to submit your InGen results report, it will be added to the dog's record like any other document. LabraData does not issue, endorse or decline any documents - they are just stored, indexed and displayed as a service to the owners and the breed.

As always thank you Maureen.

I seriously considered using the Ingen test on a few of my dogs but I heard a breeder say that he couldn't trust a company that is operating illegally to give accurate results.

Plus, since the OFA doesn't recognize them it is just one more reason for me to stay with Optigen for now. We'll see what the future brings.

You must have more money than some of us. I go with the same or better item at a lower price. OFA will post one day don't worry. Think of all they have added in just a few years. But Optigen will always take your money. I too miss the 20/20 clinics. We were good with that. Going with Pawsitive ID now.

OVC (Ontario Veterinary College) hip/elbow certification is cheaper than OFA (payable in Canadian funds, 25% less than US funds). Would you switch to them because it's cheaper?

"I too miss the 20/20 clinics. "

Optigen still has 20/20 clinics. There are LOTS of them listed on the website. I just sent in the listing for one our club will be hosting in April. With the additional 5% for online registration, I NEVER pay full price - always get the 25% discount when I use them. Unfortunately, they do not give a price break on the clear x clear testing beyond the advertised half-price fee, so I get no value from the 20/20 pricing these days. I have a couple of young males that will be leaving the country that I want to have their own test certifications before they go.

If you make an arrangement with a 20/20 clinic and send the blood to them to be included with their shipment you can still get the 20/20 price.

Does the 20/20 price come off the current sale price they have listed on their website?

BTW, you should think of these fees as seen by folks outside of the US. Canadian listers pay about 25% MORE than you pay for the same test!!!!

the idea that the test is inconsistent keeps coming up.

But every time this subject comes up many breeders state they have used the Pawsitive ID test on dogs that already have optigen and the results are always the same.

Anyone...someone stand up and tell us you have different results proving the test is inconsistent!