Can any of you tell us the pros and cons of using Oxytocin during whelping please. My vets used to use it but don't now unless really necessary.

If the pup is well and truly stuck, the uterus can contract down around the pup and suffocate it. I would never use it at home because of the inability to do a c-section quickly enough to save the pup. It can also cause the uterus to contract enough to rupture it if the walls are already weak.

Pros-You can get a pup out alive.
Cons-You can kill a pup.

Uterine torsion, uterine rupture.....
Also once you give it placental detachment starts. That is why dogs can not be induced.

or kill the bitch if not used properly.

My girls tend to get very weak on their contractions so about 3/4 of the way through whelping their pups, I will give oxy per directed by my vet who I trust. Yes, the pups that come out after I administer OXY have almost always come out green, sackless and sometimes hard to revive but we've never lost a pup yet to this method. It's a matter of some bitches running out of steam towards the end and the process of whelping has gone on for quite some time. I agree, that breeders need to understand when to give oxy and when not to. You really need to know your bitch lines and what they are capeable of where whelping is concerned.

I always keep it on hand--just in case, but rarely ever use it.

You only want to use it when all of the following are true:

She's already had her first pup
You know there are more pups inside
None of them are stuck in the birth canal
She's not really pushing on her own

The drug will help her contract and get more pups out. IF any of them are stuck it won't really help. You'll either have to reach up and help it out yourself OR go in for a possible C-section.

Some people also use it after birth to make she everything is cleaned out.

The biggest convern using the drug would be the possibililty of uterine prolaps.

You also want to use the correct doseage and give it only as needed and no more often than recommended by your vet.

I usually avoid any questions that call for medical or vet input - your vet is your best source of advice. I am going out on a limb and replying to this because most of the other posts have already given the BIG reasons oxytocin should not be used without a LOT of caution and vet agreement.

I have used oxytocin and injectible calcium to manage welpings for about 30 years. I follow a very strict protocol that was recommended by Dr. Mosher of K-State many years ago and ALWAYS keep in touch with my vets to assure someone will be available if an emergency C-section becomes necessary.

I have found that "lazy" contractions are more often a sign of calcium depletion than lack of oxytocin. That is why calcium is a more important drug in my whelping kit than the oxy. For those that want to learn more about drug management during whelping, WhelpWise has some excellent information. NEVER use drugs at home without careful monitoring.

Here is an excerpt from a case study on the WhelpWise website:
Using low does of Oxytocin are very effective in restoring a normal uterine contraction pattern. Effectiveness of these low doses seems to correlate with the timing of their administration. Administering any size dose of Oxytocin before a reasonable time in labor has elapsed is frequently not helpful, and presents a potential for uterine rupture, especially at the higher doses. Uterine contraction monitoring is very beneficial in documenting that adequate labor has been established, and Oxytocin dosing is appropriate.

Calcium is also very helpful in managing inertia. While Oxytocin will increase the frequency of the uterine contractions, calcium will increase the strength. By using the WhelpWise service, the whelping can be managed by the correct drug or drugs, using the correct dose, administered at the correct time, not arbitrarily administering drugs without feedback on the presence and type of uterine contraction pattern.

I only use it after the girl is through whelping. I would never give it during. Not that smart. Don't want to kill pups or the mother have problems. Big problems. Leave that only to a Dr. or a few Breeders I know who seem to know what they are doing. But be very careful and with the dose. We know we use to use to much in the past. JMHO

I do use Calsorb. Seems to help a great deal.

Absolutely agree. Playing with hormones is a practice that requires a lot of caution and careful monitoring - or it just should be avoided.

I agree here also. I can do without oxy, but I make sure I have calcium before a whelping. It, too, requires a lot of caution or can cause heart problems and even death. With all of these drugs, the concept of "less is more" is very important.

I completely agree with Maureen. I haven't had to use Oxy for about 5 years and then one of my girls started having trouble during whelping and I felt a pup tail first,legs tucked up and upside down. This was her next to the last pup and she had been whelping for 7 hours (not this puppy of course) and her contractions were "tired" or "lazy" contractions. I had never used injectable calcium with Oxy (I have used Oxy in the past but prefer not to if I can at all help it) but but was advised to use the Oxy/Cal combo and I DID have to help deliver the pup getting those back legs to come out and after that the pup was delivered with ease and was a fat lil butterball and did great. I firmly believe the Calcium provided the strength the contraction needed to help deliver this pup and will always have it on hand. Now I have put both Oxy and Calcium back in the fridge and lets hope that it expires before I ever have to use them again.

Our vet won't give it to us. Told us that if we have a problem, call him or go to the evet, and they'll administer if necessary.

So far never needed it. Always made sure moms had enough calcium ingested during the whelping, all born naturally, no c-section, never lost a pup. KNOCK ON WOOD.

Does orally ingested calcium get to the blood stream fast enough? How much, how often?

What dosage and how often for the injectable, like Calsorb, if used alone without Oxytocin? What dosages and timing if used in conjunction with Oxytocin? Seems I've had more stillborns the last couple years, am open to trying another approach.

As others have posted, the wrong dose of calcium injected or injected the wrong way, can stop a heartbeat and kill a bitch. What would you do if you unknowingly hit a vein?
To the poster asking about dose: learn anatomy and physiology of canines, learn the pharmacokinetics of the drugs you want to use, and get some veterinary medical training to determine the uses and doses for these drugs, then after years of experience you might successfully be able to inject these drugs into your own bitch after consulting with a veterinarian. Yes it's that important.
The people who are posting about having used these injectible drugs have said they have years and years of experience, working with their veterinarians on dose, technique and application and are cautioning others against doing so unless they have similar experience and knowledge.
I have a lot of experience, but before I was trained as a tech, I made a couple of costly mistakes.
Advice or recommendations about practicing veterinary medicine is not advice you get off the internet!

AMEN.... which is why I usually do not post on these threads. Your vet should be your primary resource, not the internet.

I can state a classic example of the misuse of Oxytocin.

A couple months ago, a "friend" tried to call me, and I wasn't home, about their Lab , in labor and a stuck pup. She wanted to know how much oxytocin to give her. She had gotten some from a friend. They both raise another smaller breed.

Since she couldn't reach me, she injected 1 1/2 cc in her. That's a LOT! The Lab did pass the pup.

I almost had a heart attack when I heard the news, and when I proceeded to tell her the conciquences of the misuse of the drug, she got angry with.

Fortunately, everything was fine. She was very lucky, but I was very angry. She should have called the vet.

I understand that only a vet should be administering injectable calcium. I learned that almost 20 years ago when my vet avoided a c-section with a bitch who was having a hard time whelping. He made it clear that a mistake could stop her heart.

I also do not bring Oxytocin home even though my vet has offered that to me. I want to be in his office when oxytocin is administered because I do not like to wait too long for a c-section if it doesn't work.

Having said all that, I do know that people let bitch's have some Tums or calcium in vitamin pill form during whelping to help. I have never done this and it seems like it would be safe. I am wondering for those people who do this, how much, how often, and is it dangerous (in which case I would not do it without a vet and I might ask him anyway to confirm what I read here anyway)?

It is probably very important to keep reminding people that they should not be getting veterinary advice on a forum. Having said that, I think most of us use this forum as part of our preliminary research prior to having the conversation with our vets. I like to have done my homework when possible before I take up his valuable time. For a conversation like this, it will be email or phone and he won't be getting an office visit fee. He is a friend but I like to respect his time. Also, sometimes I learn information on this forum that contradicts his understanding and he goes off and does more research.

I give 3 PetCals after the first pup is born, and one more after every pup or two. I NEVER give one before a pup is born.

Good discussions and experiences on this forum!
Just like with M.D.s, though, how often does it really happen that a veterinarian will change his way of practicing medicine based on information another person has read on a forum? Not very often, I can tell you.
I think this Forum is very valuable for discussions and sharing peoples' experiences. If you want to incorporate reliable, experienced breeder's input based on their extensive breeding and whelping experience in a dialogue WITH your trusted, experienced veterinarian, I see no harm in that.
I do see danger in asking other people medical advice, drug doses and routes of administration of potentially dangerous drugs on this forum or any other. Do include your veterinary professional, he or she is the expert on treating diseases and conditions of dogs. As a tech, I have experienced many human doctors and nurses that thought they knew how to treat animals, and caused a major problem. Best example of this was a nurse that used so much oxytocin in her dog (Mastiff) that the puppies hair coat had sloughed off in utero and the uterine horns ruptured. All the puppies died or had to be euthanized, and she almost lost her bitch, too.
I guess the biggest reason dog owners avoid veterinary care has to be financial, however, if your dog does not fare well with advice from lay people, it's on your shoulders. The veterinarian's oath says, in part, "Above all, do no further harm" That is good advice for all of us!

"I have found that "lazy" contractions are more often a sign of calcium depletion than lack of oxytocin. That is why calcium is a more important drug in my whelping kit than the oxy. For those that want to learn more about drug management during whelping, WhelpWise has some excellent information. NEVER use drugs at home without careful monitoring."

I agree about oxy being monitored by a vet but calcium just as strongly. Most vets don't advise calcium to be used during whelping unless there is a reason for it.

Caution with both should be exercised and adminstration only with a vet that knows a lot about repro and whelping during each time these drugs might be used. Do not just give either without a vet that tells you that is what is needed to assist with a delivery.

Either after a whelping is finished is sometimes done for a clean out shot or to add calcium to the diet for many reasons. Again, check with your vet.

I just looked up PetCals by Pet Tabs. If I am correct, each pill has 17% of the suggested daily amount of calcium for dogs. It seems like giving one after each pup would kind of keep a nice steady flow through her and would probably not exceed a normal days dosage by much. Assuming she has not eaten much on the day she whelps or the day after, I can't imagine how this could be a bad thing. I am wondering how fast the calcium gets into her system but I am betting it is pretty quickly.