I have a litter left 2 weeks ago, client just called, puppy has strangles, symptoms beginning 8 days after leaving here. Wants 1/2 of purchase price of pup back.

Says its genetic.
My vet says it is UNKNOWN. Etiology is unknown.

Is this my fault?
Did it contract something here?
Her vet says the pup has an "immune disorder"

I kept 4 pups out of that litter, and all 4 are absolutely 100% fine.

Can environment trigger this?
is it allergies??


any input or help on how to respond...I am very appreciative. Thanks ahead of time!

I'd take the puppy back and refund their money.

It is an immature immune system ( overactive ), it is not proven to be hereditary. they do outgrow this with proper treatment ( prednisone and antibiotics . )

they refuse to "bring the pup back" because it was their son's B-day present, and he is "so attached"

I would call your vet and get a second opinion

I did call my vet, she says its not genetic. But if the other vet says it is, then its a "he said, she said"

There is not a clear black and white on strangles, why it is contracted, why it starts, if its genetic...

The client says "my vet says so, give me 1/2 the purchase price back."

along with the insults of "oh, I thought you were a reputable breeder, and oh, I thought I was getting an exceptional pup..."

O.K. after hearing what the puppy owner has said to you and with complete ignorance, I would take the puppy back and refund their money. Nurse the pup back to health and find another home.

I agree

You have offered to take the puppy back and give a refund. If they refuse the return and refund, its their problem. Let them know that you can take the pup back and nurse him back to health and sell the pup to someone else for full price so giving back half the purchase price doesnt make sense. Dont let them intimidate you.

Obviously it depends what your contract says about "genetic" diseases. If it's pretty wide open, then you might have to cough up 1/2 the purchase price. If it's pretty tight, then once you've offered to refund their purchase price for the return of the puppy and they refuse, there's really nothing else you're obligated for (unless you live in a Lemon Law state, in which case you might have to pay for cost of treatment, etc....).

Good luck - I hope you get your puppy back!

Did this puppy get any shots after you sent it to its new home?

yes, It had the Duramune at 7 weeks of age before going home at 8 weeks old

They did not have any shots done after you sent it home?

no, they were instructed to not get the second shot until a month after the first one was administered.

First of all genetic or not, it's treatable and probaly won't even have a problem again. Even so, treating is does not cost anywhere near what I assume their asking. I'm not even sure if you owe them anything at all, but IF you do, according to your contract and/or your state laws, it shouldn't be anything more than the treatment, AND you should be able to get a second opinion before handing over any money. JMO

Good Luck!

I agree with Candyheart! From one past experience and some from others I am not sure just how many Vet's are that familiar with strangles any way??

Let me just add, that this is NOT your fault. These things happen. Most of the time, the new owners are understanding and cooperative, and others you end up with a vet who scares them into thinking the pup has some aweful genetic condition and tells them you're a bad breeder and so on. It's sad, but it happens. I've been there.

In addition, I personaly do not feel you owe them money. They were healthy at the time of sale, and I don't believe there is solid evendence that this is 100% genetic. Not to mention it IS easy and relatively inexpensive to treat. If it were life threatning or dissabling and unquestionably genetic that would be a different story altogether.

In your shoes, I would do one of two things: First offer to take it back for a full refund. Since they refuse, I MIGHT offer to split their vet bill with them, for no other reason then being a good person--not out of obligation. OR, I might stand my ground based on what I feel is right, and since they're being insenstive and insulting anyway, I would not offer them anything beyond a refund for the return of the pup. It's not your fault, you were not negligent in any way, so you shouldn't have to pay. It's their dog now and they should deal with this relatively minor health issue.

Some vets or even customers try to blame every tiny thing on the breeder. They think that because you do health clearances for common genetic issues and because you offer them a health guarantee that this pup will be perfect in every way from day one on, and that simply is not life. The money they paid and the time they put in to find a good breeder does not justfy them thinking the breeder is to blame for everything. If you give in to their unreasonable demands they will walk all over you. You just can't please them all--especially when they have unrealistic expectations.

Sounds to me like she thinks she found a way to get a 50% discount on a well bred puppy from a conscientious breeder. If you sold this puppy as a pet, and she refuses to return it, I would offer to pay for the treatment just to get her off your back. I have only had this in one puppy, and the treatment was antibiotics twice a day - it cleared up within two weeks and the treatment cost less than $30. Also, I'd be having my vet talk to her vet to get to the bottom of this "genetic" issue.

If I couldn't get the puppy back, I'd require the pup be taken to my own vet (at my expense), I'd pay for the prednisone, and I'd require a followup visit to my own vet (again at my own expense) to ensure the treatment was done properly.

What area are you located in? Need to get these people to a knowledgeable vet. Doesn't sound like they are getting good information.

Puppy strangles is an inmature imune system. It is not genetic, hereditary or caused by anything that anyone can control. It is treatable (not expensive in terms or dollars - just emotional), it doesn't leave any known problems for the dog. Doesn't add up if you have made the offer to help support.

i have a 9yr,,house pet,,, girl that got the strangles at 6mths,,later than most get it,,she had just gotten her vaccination,,,we treated her with pred and antiobiotics,,shes 9 now and will probably out live us all,,,good luck,,i would also try to get the pup back,,,but if not,,then second opinion and maybe pay for the treatment,,,you may want your vet to check pup out also,,,i always worry about the type of home this pup will have with people that give you such grief,,,,

I had a 17month old girl get it and it was treated very easy and there was no scaring! I have a repro vet, he said it is not genetic!!! I like Greg's idea, to have your vet call their vet and get to the bottom of the issue. My vets have called other vets in the past, only because they were interested in the ignorance of some vets that would also depend on how much your vet is willing to do it!

Gee, hope you don't live in NJ, you'll never get your poor pup back....

I agree 100% with this response
"OR, I might stand my ground based on what I feel is right, and since they're being insenstive and insulting anyway, I would not offer them anything beyond a refund for the return of the pup. It's not your fault, you were not negligent in any way, so you shouldn't have to pay"

You owe them nothing. They can return for full refund or get over themselves.

http://www.brytestar.com/strangles.pdf

I like the idea of your vet calling their vet.

I'd offer to pay their vet bills, otherwise, offer to take the puppy back.

Explain to them that you feel bad that the puppy is unwell and that is what your primary concern is. Not in refunding their money.

My girl had strangles a week after I brought her home. She was on a regime of pred for five weeks. I spent most of last December in the kitchen with her, bonding and teaching retrieve. She hasn't looked back and got her WC at one year and two days. She doesn't look like she has been sick at all.

~Adrienne

I had a couple of pups that I thought they were getting strangles, both have little pimple like around their neck and mouth, but their have crust around, they didn't have any fever or lymph nodes swollen, so I decided to give a try to Etiderm (shampoo for skin problems) and it worked, it was just some kind of dermatitis and nothing else, so better take that pup to your vet to have a diagnostic you can trust, lately newer vets just want to test everything under the sun to get more money from pet owners, that is so sad.

I had this too, caused by early vaccine.
My vet diagnosed pustular dematitus and said wash with anti bacterial soap.
Was not strangles but looked similar.

First of all, I pretty much agree with what everyone is saying. I alos really don't believe there is a genetic component to Juvenile Pyroderma (puppy strangles). I also agree that there are some Vet swho balme everyhing on the breeder and when push comes to shove have a very alarming lack of knowledge on some subjects. This being sadi, the problem we are all fightig here is the internet. Yes don't get me wrong, i love the internet and it is our friend, but it can also be our enemy. Google Puppy Strangls or Juvenile Pyroderma. What you will find is that almost all websites claim it is genetic.

Puppy strangles is an auto immune problem, could definitely be caused by vaccines. It is frustrating to me that breeders get the blame for what may be caused by veterinarians. Vaccine reactions are common, yet we continue to trust our vets to do the right thing. In FL, there is a puppy lemon law. Vaccines (including bordetella) are required at eight weeks, the same age they are allowed to go to their new homes. Way too much stress, vacs then to a new home. It's a law that is asking for problems, but who will get the blame? It won't be the veterinarian.

Auto-immune issue. Genetic - most likely. Give back half of purchase price - no way. Prednisone and antibiotics are method of treatment - might want to offer covering or paying part of med expense. Geez, everyone wants money back for the littlest things.

Why not offer to pay for a phone consult for their veterinarian with Dr. Hutchison? Their vet will have a lot more respect for someone in Hutch's position than you or even your own vet. Make sure the owners can sit in on the call so they all have an understanding of strangles.

Next, I would ask to see copies of the vet bills and offer to pay them - not to exceed 1/2 the cost of the puppy. Treatment for strangles is pred so they should not have absurb vet bills. Showing compassion for the new puppy owner will gain you far more respect with them and their vet than as opposed to getting in a pissing match about who's right. Sometimes it's not a matter of who's to blame but rather showing that you care about them and the time and effort they have put into caring for this puppy they have only had 8 days.

Why on earth would she have a phone consult with Hutch? He is a reproductive specialist not a puppy one. If anything i'd have her pay for someone at a clinic like UC Davis or somewhere for that phone consult. JMHO
Aloha,
Jackie

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Replying to:

Why not offer to pay for a phone consult for their veterinarian with Dr. Hutchison? Their vet will have a lot more respect for someone in Hutch's position than you or even your own vet. Make sure the owners can sit in on the call so they all have an understanding of strangles.

Next, I would ask to see copies of the vet bills and offer to pay them - not to exceed 1/2 the cost of the puppy. Treatment for strangles is pred so they should not have absurb vet bills. Showing compassion for the new puppy owner will gain you far more respect with them and their vet than as opposed to getting in a pissing match about who's right. Sometimes it's not a matter of who's to blame but rather showing that you care about them and the time and effort they have put into caring for this puppy they have only had 8 days.