If I read the "law" correctly FL demands puppy shots be given at eight weeks old which includes lepto. Their requirements refer to "pet dealers" which means any breeder producing more than two litters a year or 20 puppies. If, as a hobby breeder, I don't fall into that category (I breed very seldom) do the laws apply? I'm more than upset with the lepto rule and would like to follow the protocol of Dr. Jean Dodds.

Her schedule -
"Total of 3 doses ONLY
Age of Pups - Vaccine - Type
9 weeks MLV Distemper/Parvovirus only (e.g. Intervet Progard Puppy)
12 weeks MLV Distemper/Parvovirus only (e.g. Intervet Progard Puppy)
16-20 weeks MLV Distemper/Parvovirus only (e.g. Intervet Progard Puppy)
24 weeks or older, if allowable by law Killed Rabies Vaccine
1 year MLV Distemper/Parvovirus only booster
1 year ( give 3-4 weeks apart from Dist/Parvo booster) Killed 3 year rabies vaccine
MLV=modified-live virus
After 1 year, annually measure serum antibody titers against specific canine infectious agents such as distemper and parvovirus. This is especially recommended for animals previously experiencing adverse vaccine reactions or breeds at higher risk for such reactions (e.g., Weimaraner, Akita, American Eskimo, Great Dane).
I use only killed 3 year rabies vaccine for adults and give it separated from other vaccines by 3-4 weeks. In some states, they may be able to give titer test result in lieu of booster.
I do NOT use Bordetella, corona virus, leptospirosis or Lyme vaccines unless these diseases are endemic in the local area pr specific kennel. Futhermore, the currently licensed leptospira bacterins do not contain the serovars causing the majority of clinical leptospirosis today."

Any way around FL laws?

any puppy sold in Florida must be sold with a certified health certificate given by a veterinarian. It does not matter if you sell one pup a year or 30 litters.

The vet by law must give proper vaccines, check for parasites, worm for parasites (even if neg) and clear pup of any health issues.

My vet does not give lepto, she writes on the health cert "to young for vaccine". Same thing she does for rabies.

I would suggest talking to your vet about your concerns and seeing if there is a happy medium you can meet. As long as your pup goes to its new home with health certificate in hand signed by license vet then you have followed the law

That is all fine and good, a health certificate saying the puppy was examined and I have followed the law, but how about three or four weeks down the road and a vaccine induced issue occurs? It will be me who is contacted, not the vet who handed out the health certificate. I will speak to my vet. There is also a veterinarian in Clearwater who has been very outspoken regarding vaccines and the "politics" behind them, Dr. John Fuden.

This is an excerpt from the state of Florida Puppy Lemon Law -
"13) For the purposes of subsections (5)-(12) and (16), the term "pet dealer" means any person, firm, partnership, corporation, or other association which, in the ordinary course of business, engages in the sale of more than two litters, or 20 dogs or cats, per year, whichever is greater, to the public. This definition includes breeders of animals who sell such animals directly to a consumer."

I don't take this as meaning what you said, "it does not matter if you sell one pup a year or 30 litters."
It specifically states two litters or 20 puppies per year, whichever is greater, to the public.

There are vaccines that are effective at 6 weeks - maternal antibodies do not affect them. I know Fort Dodge has it. I start vaccinating at 6 weeks with that.

the problem is...it is against the law to sell a dog in Florida with out a health certification.
Any dog for any price.

You can give away a dog with out the certification but cant sell even one puppy without it. Does not matter if you classify yourself as a hobby breeder or commerical breeder.

Once you go to the vet for the certification, they must follow the law and give the vaccines required at 8 weeks old.

What is done after that is between the owner and the vet there is no law stating you must give your dogs vaccines while you own them, except rabies of course.

have to agree with Fl breeder, it has nothing to do with how you want to see yourself.

If you sell a pup with out a health certificate, the puppy buyers vet can turn you and your vet into the state and this will set off an inspection.

I don't know of any vet in Florida who will give you the required health certificate with out giving the required shots. Again talking to your vet about your concerns would be worth it. maybe he would be willing to use milder vaccines, etc.

But the bottom line is if you sell a puppy, dog, kitten or cat in Florida them must be sold with a health cert no matter what age they are or how you refer to yourself.

Call USDA office in Tallahassee and speak to one of the vets, they will give you the information you are looking for.

>>>>the problem is...it is against the law to sell a dog in Florida with out a health certification.
Any dog for any price.>>>>

I'm asking for the "law" that states the above.

I have no problem with certain vaccine schedules, ie. Dr Jean Dodd's schedule. I do have a problem with mandatory lepto and bordetella. I also have no problem with a puppy exam at eight weeks old. It appears the rules have been misinterpreted and I'm just asking for proof, other than what you've been told by your vet. Where does it state every puppy in FL MUST have a myriad of vaccines before being sold?

According to my vet, a VERY well respected repro, it is totally up to the VET. Yes, you do need to have a minimum of certain vaccines, but my vet does not require bordetella and does not recommend it for pups. She also does not use lepto for the first shots. You may buy the vaccines from her and give yourself as law states under the supervision of a vet not explicitly that they are GIVEN by the vet. That is very ambiguous and if you have a vet to back you up there is no issue. Most general vets would never interpret it that way though and will simply say the law is the law and they must not only give all shots, but all shots mentioned as well as a fecal for EACH pup and then they will probably automatically worm them as well calling that "required".
You must follow the law very carefully and have the full back up of your vet as the other poster was right. You can have major issues if another vet finds fault with how you did things.
You need to find a good repro who works with breeders regularly in my opinion. Establish a relationship with them so that you have someone in your corner. They will also not steer you wrong about the law as they are so familiar with them. My vet takes a fecal sample from all pups and then combines and charges me for just 2-3. She does not worm if it is negative either.
I would not go to a general vet for a litter check up anyhow. I want someone who deals with breeders and respects and understands our goals and all that we put into our pups.
I start my pups per my vet on vaccines at 7 weeks and then take them back at just over 8 weeks for the cert. That gives me at least a week to watch them. If you want to watch them longer, keep your pups until 12 weeks. Many I know are now in favor of that as they feel it leads to a more socialized and secure pup. I kept one from my last litter until 12 weeks.
And while I know the way the law is written it seems like it might not apply to you, trust me, it does. My brother is a Sheriffs detective who has worked closely with animal services on some horrid puppy mill issues and looked into it specifically for me.
I drive an hour away to go to my repro and it is worth it to know I have someone in my corner no matter what should occur. I do what she tells me exactly and know I am covered.
Feel free to mail me and I would be happy to refer you.
Annie

I thought the only vaccine required by law (each state has their own minimum age) is Rabies...I have never heard of any state giving a list of "required by law" vaccines....Is that really true in Florida????...A required health certificate makes sense...but sounds like you just need a new vet who understands the importance of the vaccine schedule you mentioned in your 1st post. That is the schedule that is most likely going to guarantee a truly healthy puppy

It really isnt all that big a deal. The law asks you do proper deworming, and APPROPRIATE vaccines for the age the pup is sold.
Everything depends on your vet. Find a vet you mesh with and who feels the way you do and you will do fine.
As I said before, some vets seem to take a tact that they must follow this to the letter and dont deviate at all. A breeder vet will be different. I can go to my general vet locally and pay approximately 100$ per pup for all the things he says I need for the cert as I did a couple years ago, or I can go to my repro where a litter of 8 cost me roughly $150 for certs, exams, fecals etc. PLUS I feel they got a much better going over with someone who really cared to see that my pups really were very healthy and not just collecting fees for certs.
The way this is written, your vet can deem all or none of the vaccines etc. medically appropriate. Certainly you would have to get the basics, but who is going to object to that?

Here is the exact text of the law.

CHAPTER 828 ANIMALS: CRUELTY; SALES; ANIMAL ENTERPRISE PROTECTION

Fla. Stat. ß 828.29 (2001)

828.29 Dogs and cats transported or offered for sale; health requirements; consumer guarantee.

(1) (a) For each dog transported into the state for sale, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered by or under the direction of a veterinarian, licensed by the state of origin and accredited by the United States Department of Agriculture, who issues the official certificate of veterinary inspection. The tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics must be administered no more than 30 days and no less than 14 days before the dog's entry into the state. The official certificate of veterinary inspection certifying compliance with this section must accompany each dog transported into the state for sale.
(b) For each dog offered for sale within the state, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered by or under the direction of a veterinarian, licensed by the state and accredited by the United States Department of Agriculture, who issues the official certificate of veterinary inspection. The tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics must be administered before the dog is offered for sale in the state, unless the licensed, accredited veterinarian certifies on the official certificate of veterinary inspection that to inoculate or deworm the dog is not in the best medical interest of the dog, in which case the vaccine or anthelmintic may not be administered to that particular dog. Each dog must receive vaccines and anthelmintics against the following diseases and internal parasites:
1. Canine distemper.
2. Leptospirosis.
3. Bordetella (by intranasal inoculation or by an alternative method of administration if deemed necessary by the attending veterinarian and noted on the health certificate, which must be administered in this state once before sale).
4. Parainfluenza.
5. Hepatitis.
6. Canine parvo.
7. Rabies, provided the dog is over 3 months of age and the inoculation is administered by a licensed veterinarian.
8. Roundworms.
9. Hookworms.

If the dog is under 4 months of age, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered no more than 21 days before sale within the state. If the dog is 4 months of age or older, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered at or after 3 months of age, but no more than 1 year before sale within the state.
(2) (a) For each cat transported into the state for sale, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered by or under the direction of a veterinarian, licensed by the state of origin and accredited by the United States Department of Agriculture, who issues the official certificate of veterinary inspection. The tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics must be administered
no more than 30 days and no less than 14 days before the cat's entry into the state. The official certificate of veterinary inspection certifying compliance with this section must accompany each cat transported into the state for sale.
(b) For each cat offered for sale within the state, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered by or under the direction of a veterinarian, licensed by the state and accredited by the United States Department of Agriculture, who issues the official certificate of veterinary inspection. The tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics must be administered before the cat is offered for sale in the state, unless the licensed, accredited veterinarian certifies on the official certificate of veterinary inspection that to inoculate or deworm the cat is not in the best medical interest of the cat, in which case the vaccine or anthelmintic may not be administered to that particular cat. Each cat must receive vaccines and anthelmintics against the following diseases and internal parasites:
1. Panleukopenia.
2. Feline viral rhinotracheitis.
3. Calici virus.
4. Rabies, if the cat is over 3 months of age and the inoculation is administered by a licensed veterinarian.
5. Hookworms.
6. Roundworms.

If the cat is under 4 months of age, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered no more than 21 days before sale within the state. If the cat is 4 months of age or older, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered at or after 3 months of age, but no more than 1 year before sale within the state.

>>I thought the only vaccine required by law (each state has their own minimum age) is Rabies...I have never heard of any state giving a list of "required by law" vaccines....Is that really true in Florida????...>>

It's ridiculous. I have several weeks before they are old enough for shots and will do alot of questioning and checking before I am forced into doing something that I feel will be a detriment to their health, certainly not favorable.

yes vaccines are required in Florida to sell a puppy / dog.
Anything over 7 months is considered adult and must have all listed vaccines, rabies, and negative heart worm test as well.

FLORIDA LEMON LAW:
For each dog offered for sale within the state, the tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics required by this section must be administered by or under the direction of a veterinarian, licensed by the state and accredited by the United States Department of Agriculture, who issues the official certificate of veterinary inspection. The tests, vaccines, and anthelmintics must be administered before the dog is offered for sale in the state, unless the licensed, accredited veterinarian certifies on the official certificate of veterinary inspection that to inoculate or deworm the dog is not in the best medical interest of the dog, in which case the vaccine or anthelmintic may not be administered to that particular dog. Each dog must receive vaccines and anthelmintics against the following diseases and internal parasites:
1. Canine distemper.
2. Leptospirosis.
3. Bordetella (by intranasal inoculation or by an alternative method of administration if deemed necessary by the attending veterinarian and noted on the health certificate, which must be administered in this state once before sale).
4. Parainfluenza.
5. Hepatitis.
6. Canine parvo.
7. Rabies, provided the dog is over 3 months of age and the inoculation is administered by a licensed veterinarian.
8. Roundworms.
9. Hookworms.


THIS SECTION HERE GIVES YOU AND YOUR VET THE CHANCE TO WORK THINGS OUT. (not yelling just trying to break up the paragraph)

unless the licensed, accredited veterinarian certifies on the official certificate of veterinary inspection that to inoculate or deworm the dog is not in the best medical interest of the dog, in which case the vaccine or anthelmintic may not be administered to that particular dog.


To make it a bit clearer, the law does not state puppies must have health certificate and vaccines by 8 weeks, but since this is the earliest you can sell a puppy in Florida most breeders have it done at 8 weeks so the pups can go to new homes.


If you truly do not have more than 2 litters or 20 puppies a year then you can try to buck the law, but I have seen a very nice breeder get slammed for $2000 fine over no health certificate before sale, she had two litters that year, one single pup and 3 pups.

Like Anne said, talk to your vet and call USDA for the correct answers to your questions. No one is questioning your beliefs.

Bottom line is, your rights are being violated. The puppies don't belong to the state, they belong to you. It's up to you to do what you feel comfortable with and obviously having to give too many vaccines at a young age isn't something most breeders would ever do. Laws made up by politicians who don't know their a-- from their elbow about what an eight week old puppy needs is a disaster in the making and it will be at the breeders expense, not the vets who are in cahoots with the politicians. As long as breeders in FL fall in line and do not question what is being done, it will continue and probably get worse.

So if you want to follow Dodd's protocol can't you just keep your puppies the extra week to get them to 9 weeks, then get them vax and health cert right before they leave by your vet and be in the letter of the law? Just a thought from someone that now has another reason not to want to live in FL. :)

Florida is not the only state with puppy lemon laws, I believe there are a good dozen of them, CA, MD, etc.
They are nothing new....been around for years.
If you want to play the game you got to follow the rules.

but you are correct, no one is making you sell your pups at 8 weeks. Hold on to them longer if you feel more comfortable with giving them vaccines on a different schedule.

With Florida and their stupid laws, who knows if that will even be acceptable. They have listed the vaccines they say the puppy needs, never mind what Dr. Jean Dodds says (one of the most knowledgeable veterinarians in the country). I doubt that will matter in this state, politicians know more.

Its not a matter of keeping the pups for an extra week.

Its the giving lepto and Bordatella she doesn't want to do. I don't blame her.

Talk with your vet and they may just tell you they can put it on the health certificate that pups are too young for the above vaccines. (as someone else mentioned their vet does)

Good luck - hope you can do things they way you want for the health of your pups.

What is so hard to understand about going to a vet who does not recommend lepto for the first series?
Most I know dont recommend it. Many also do not do KC as the pup has enough to deal with in the distemper/parvo/flu combo.
Do you just not want to do any vaccines or are you not paying attention to what several people have already posted?
I have seen more than one reference to finding a Dr. who agrees with you. Is the problem, that you cant find one? Maybe instead of repeatedly griping about politicians out to get you, you should just ask for a good vet recommendation and figure out what you feel is best for your pups. You just may have to sacrifice and keep them longer if you feel so strongly.
Are you upset because you cant send them home with no vaccines?
If you cant find one who will do what you want, I bet there is a good reason.
Many vets practice homeopathic medicine and follow Dodds protocol, you cant be looking to hard if you can not find one. I know more than one good breeder in Florida and they dont do lepto or KC and get health certificates no problemo.
Guess it is easier to just gripe on a forum about how the man is coming to force you to sell vaccinated pups as prescribed by your vet and how outrageous it all is then to get on the phone and start calling vets to see who might be able to work with you. Is this not something you have talked to your vet about long ago or is this your first litter?
Come on, some informed Floridian pipe in already and tell this person where they can find a homeopathic vet.

Here is a vet my brother uses in Sarasota.
If you want a holistic vet and not a repro I bet they would be a good place to start.
Very conservative on the vaccines.
Still I think you would do fine with a repro.
Annie
-From the web site
"Treatment and vaccine protocols are determined on an individual basis for each pet based on their unique lifestyle and requirements. With over 42 years combined experience diagnosing and treating a variety of diseases, your pet is in good hands at our hospital."
http://www.holisticanimalcare.com/services.html

I think it's important that breeders and pet owners know where these laws are coming from. Dr. Dodd's schedule is the one that should be followed and veterinarians all over the country know this. Laws put into place by politicians, YES politicians need to be addressed. That's not happening and vets pushing these laws in FL to be put into place have only one thing in mind which is not in the best interest of your litter or pets. Sure, you can find a holistic vet and get a health certificate, but how long before a new law is put into place forbidding that? The point is these laws are bad and shoved down our throats with total disregard of the consequences of overvaccinating. I, personally, would like to see a class action law suit (like the one against the rabies vaccine) and hold some of these vets accountable.