Wondering how things turned out in at the Charleston shows today.

Nancy Chargo called from on the road---she had Best in Sweeps both days with Wit's End Silver Charm ("Big" X "Vegas")

BOB was the Hamilton's "Big"
WB was Windfall Big Sky's Bumble Bee ("Mason" X Windfall's Stormy Sky)

Yesterday's WB was Cindy Skiba' Epoch's In The Bag ("Scoop") --- which finished her!

Don't have the rest.

I heard that WB (BeeBee) went BOS and the JAMs went to James, Scrubs, and Ch. Fortune's Curious George (don't know his call name).

any WD?

When someone has a moment to post the actual NAMES of the dogs that did well, I would appreciate the posting. Call names are meaningless to me since I know of so many that have the same one.

Here you go, Maureen - James is Multi-BISS Ch. Beechcroft Study's Top Secret (we talked about him yesterday), Big is Multi-BISS Ch. Blackwing Superfine, and Scrubs is Multi-BISS Ch. Paradocs Delians Scrubbing In.

I guess I figured most people who follow showing recently would be familiar with their call names!

Congratulations Everyone!

I know 6 dogs named James, 2 called Big and 3 called Scrub, Scrubby and Scrubs. Since I make it a policy to NOT read any of the breed or show mags so that I will not be exposed to photos/ads for dogs that may show up in my ring someday, I may not know which of the dogs with the same call name you reference in a post. Thanks for taking the time to type the registered names - I do appreciate it. I'm sure there is at least one other Lab person in the country that might not know who "Big" is. I didn't, and the Hamiltons are long time associates of mine.

So do you not watch the breed ring when you're not judging so as not to be exposed to any dogs that may be in your ring in the future??? I'm confused with how you would make informed breeding decisions to dogs that aren't in your neck of the woods if you don't see the dogs?

Yes, that bothers me a little also Maureen that you don't keep up with the winning dogs in general. You are still a breeder, arn't you. The dogs that are winning right now with the names Scrubs, Big, etc. Well, right now I don't know of any other meaningful dogs with those names. But guess, we should post entire names for those not in the know.

To answer both of you, NO. I do not generally go to shows where I am not judging. I will be attending the Potomac and look forward to seeing some of the creme-de-la-creme there. I do very little breeding and have been focusing on my own lines in recent years. I am looking to use two outside studs in the next year or so, which is another reason to go to Potomac.

As to avoiding all the ads and such, I seldom have ever bred to a dog that I have not seen in person. I am pretty good with photo editing myself and would never decide on a dog based on advertising or a website. If I find a dog I think will fit what I need for my bitch, its show record is meaningless to me, so I (again) have no need to follow the hype (or the crowds). I am far more interested in what a stud dog has produced than its show stats or glossy ads. Knowing the dog's "call" name is no help when assessing its official production record

I find some of this use of call names only for dogs to be a little like "name dropping". It implies that you PERSONALLY have some connection to the dog and "talk" to it regularly - as if it were your own. I have always felt that was a bit disrespectful myself, but I have been in this a long time and manners were different years ago. It was considered proper to give the dog's full name so that the kennel name of the breeder and/or owner was generally acknowledged in any public mention of the dog. Fashions and manners change, I guess, as do the methods of selecting stud dogs. I still like a proper means of addressing dogs and a personal means of assessing them.

On the other hand, how many of us have been sitting around listening to other breeders discuss dogs, past and present - who they are out of/related to? I know rarely do they use the dog's registered name, particularly when it's a well-known dog. How many people say "Ch. Dickendall Arnold" when everyone knows who "Arnold", "Drifter", "Brodie", "Travis", "Gordie", etc... are? Not many that I know.

I certainly don't see it as name dropping, but just making it easier.

IS THERE A WINNERS DOG OR WHAT!!!????!!!

Congrats to all the winners today.

Thanks for getting back to the topic. I would like to know as well. It may not have been reported because nobody knew his call name

All I can say to Patty is that we are of different generations - what was considered good manners when I started in dogs may not be practiced by the newer crowd. That's life. The only thing consistent is change. Again, I do appreciate your time in entering the dogs' full names - even if you did use it as an excuse to make personal aspersions that have nothing to do with the topic.

Just to clarify, when you mention Travis, do you mean Ch. Borador's Lord Travis or Ch. Killingworth Borador Travis??? Both were very well known dogs and sired a lot of notable progeny.

WOO HOO!!! Congratulations to all the winners!!!!!
Maureen -- Why nit pick a congratulatory thread to death -- Go hug your dogs

Didn't start the nit picking... just asked for the names of the dogs AND thanked the person for entering them. The thread took a left turn at THEIR choice, not mine. Some people just can't pass up a chance to be snotty, even when they do a favor

I didn't know this was a congratulatory thread... thought it was an informative one. Sorry... my bad. I make my congratulations directly to the individuals in most cases rather than in public. Another hold over from the old manners drilled into me by the powers that were in the 60s. Remember, we didn't have the internet back then

Maureen,
Just shut up and congratulate the winners.

LOL @ HRL

As a judge myself I do like to keep up on what is going on at the shows and what is winning. It does Not in any way influence what I will do when judging.

As a judge and breeder I feel it is important to know what is going on.

Replying to:
"I don't know of any other meaningful dogs with those names. But guess, we should post entire names for those not in the know."

Did anyone ever tell the two of you -- you, whoever you, are, and Patty -- that you are nothing but a bunch of snobs? If not here you go. I'm telling you.
And by the way, just because dogs "are winning now" doesn't make them meaningful in my book. It's what they are, and the legacy they leave that makes them meaningful, and most importantly, what they mean to those who own and love them.

I assume they mean BISS. Ch.Sureshot HySpire Impressive - aka Travis.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Just to clarify, when you mention Travis, do you mean Ch. Borador's Lord Travis or Ch. Killingworth Borador Travis??? Both were very well known dogs and sired a lot of notable progeny.

Different strokes. I have already done my congrats personally. Has anyone figured out who was WD yet??

Drum roll please...And the Winners Dog is __________!!

I actually consider it an honor, and a positive statement, if someone recognizes who my girl was simply by her name Lacey. I know there are many other bitches named "Lacey" but for a time, in a particular time, just as with Gordy or Puffin or Travis, the name refers to one particular dog who has some name recognition for something.

Given Maureen that you have judged labs at 10 shows since 2004, I don't think it is a big deal to the honesty of your judging to actually "know" who Gordy or Travis or Puffin or my Lacey exactly is, at least by name.

And where you don't know, just ask, rather than making it a matter of ethics in judging or breeding or whatever. I would think, if you really care about the future of the breed, that you would go to dog shows just to see what the current dogs are about, how the breed is evolving, whether you like the direction or not, and in the process would absorb some names.

Bonnie

Winners Dog was....

WITT'S END JACKS ARE BETTER AT BLACKWING

And for inquiring minds, Curious George's call name is Monkey!! Don't think that one that has been used too much! :-)

Kudos to everyone for a great weekend!!!

Congratulations to each and every winner and a big woo hoo to all in the ribbons.

I just wanted to make a minor correction, Windfall Big Sky's Bumble Bee, "BB" is indeed out of Ch. Windfalls Stormy Sky but is sired by Ch. Big Sky's Home Run Hitter - "HANK". Hank is by Ch. Tabatha's Rollick at Carowby, JH out of CH. Empress Signature Required.

At any rate, BB, is a stunning girl and she looked fabulous in St. Louis and I am sure she deserved it all. We are thrilled for her and her owners and handler.

It was great fun. Good to see all the nice dogs. Fun to visit with the breeders from all over. Know the ones from the great frozen North were glad to come down South. Thought the club did a great job as usual. Good, for "Monkey" getting Jams both days.
Very nice dog at a very nice show.

Wow, Congrats Nancy, Cindy, Angela!!! and to all the winners!
WB is actually "Hank" (Int CH Big Sky's Home Run Hitter X CH Windfalls Stormy Sky) Pretty, pretty bitch Steve K...LOL

LOL

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Thanks for getting back to the topic. I would like to know as well. It may not have been reported because nobody knew his call name

All I can say to Patty is that we are of different generations - what was considered good manners when I started in dogs may not be practiced by the newer crowd. That's life. The only thing consistent is change. Again, I do appreciate your time in entering the dogs' full names - even if you did use it as an excuse to make personal aspersions that have nothing to do with the topic.

Was Windfall Big Sky Bumble Bee shown and owned by someone in FL awhile back? I remember a beautiful black bitch at some shows down here, but cannot remember the details.

Congrats to all of the winners!!! Way to go guys and gals!!

Oh and I think Boradors Lord Travis was called Tramp...

"And where you don't know, just ask, rather than making it a matter of ethics in judging or breeding or whatever. "

I DID just ask, Bonnie. Someone else made it an issue and I replied. I care a lot about the future of the breed --- and what does that have to do with who is currently in the limelight? You assume that because your intrest is in who is winning and the popular names that everyone has the same approach. They don't. I have no interest in "evolving" the breed - I have dedicated 40 years to preserving it. I enjoy showing, I don't enjoy the politics - in the ring or out of it. The names I want to absorb are the FULL names of the dogs so I can recognize them on a pedigree of their progeny through the generations. What they produce is the measure of greatness and service to the future.

Sorry that this thread has turned into a bunch of "junk" comments. I really just wanted to know who the dogs were. From now on I will read it from the supers site and get the correct information without all the snobbish politics and snide comments.

Thanks Steve for setting the record straight on the sire to Windfall's Big Sky Bumble Bee, the WB at the Coastal Carolina Specialty today. I first saw her at Central Ohio specialty last October when she was WB under Beth Sweigart and thought she was absolutely breathtaking and could have gone all the way to BOB! A true classic in Labradors!
Pauline

Erinlynn999, your message says it all. Not everyone knows the dogs by their call name.

Some of us live in another country, how do y'all think we manage when the winners are posted as Fluffy or Spot or whatever the hell else you decide to use as a call name!

I love looking up the winning dogs on the internet just to check them out. I can't do this without full names.

I enjoy a lot of the informative stuff that appears on this forum, but I find it rather disturbing that whenever the thread turns to show results it regularly turns to Judge/Handler/Personality bashing. You have some great dogs in your country and the most fabulous show scene. I am envious of that side of our hobby, but I must say it is rather spoilt by the absolute savage nastiness of some of the participants in this great sport! Anyone from overseas would certainly think twice about approaching some of you regarding the possibility of buying a puppy or getting semen from your stud dogs based on your attitude to your fellow breeders and exhibitors

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with posting the results by call names. Most of us on the Wiscoy forum know who the dogs are. This is a casual forum for discussion after all.

If you want official results, use the official sites to check them. This is a discussion forum, not a results forum. If i am not sure who so and so is, i'll look it up myself on Infodog for example.

The same could be said for breeder names vs kennel names.

Bonnie, I am sure Lacey becoming a household name has personalized the experience for you. As it should. If we kept it all professional, we could end up sounding like this: "Congratulations Bonnie of Robnie Labradors for your great wins with Ch Sunspot's Lace 'Em Up SH"

Is that better for you Maureen of Nimloth?

As I recommended to someone last week, look up the definition of hyperbole. Hey, perhaps that was even you, Nameless of Anonymity!

No, I do not believe I was exaggerating with my statement.
I assure you last week you did not aim anything like that at me.

The formalities on the forum here are not necessary for most of us. Use the official sites for the official results. You may not be in the majority here in knowing who the dogs are, and there are some that I don't know either but it takes just a moment to ask. If you don't want to ask, look it up on Infodog.

I was anonymous in error as I hadn't completed filling out the post form before hitting send. However, I will not be posting my name now.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

As I recommended to someone last week, look up the definition of hyperbole. Hey, perhaps that was even you, Nameless of Anonymity!

"but it takes just a moment to ask"

I DID! But then, it appears, it takes hours to reply to the people who just can't pass up an opportunity to insult, belittle, sneer, or smirk with contempt that someone might actually want to know the full names of the dogs. If Patty would have just posted the names without any editorial put down, I would have been happy as a clam (as in clam up) and got the information I wanted. Remember, not just some little "clique" reads this forum. You have already heard from a foreign exhibitor that had no more clue as to the identity of the dogs by call name than I did. It would just be polite to either give the complete information (as Patty did for the previous results) or let someone else do it that wants to really convey information to everyone who reads this forum - not just the local "insiders".

If you do not believe you were exaggerating to the point of sarcasm with your "Maureen Gamble of Nimloth", then what was your point? It is called hyperbole - look it up and then avoid it.

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG????

Maureen,

I know what hyperbole means, and no, I was not exaggerating. I did not suggest we go around referring to others as that, I stated that it would sound something like that if we had to be so formal. You were not the only example used...so no, I wasn't being sarcastic in any negative way.

I realize you did ask the registered names (I never said you did not ask)...but you appear to be looking for a tone in everyone's replies to you. Meanwhile, most of your replies come back with something sarcastic and even sometimes degrading to others.

Sometimes a simple question needs only a simple answer. While I agree others have jumped all over you in the past, you have dished out just as much to them in your replies. Be the better person yes?

Congrats to the winners.

Maureen & Herbert,

You 2 seem to be the trouble makers on allot of different posts. Why don't you leave everyone alone already? Please!

The word troll is thrown around so much that many are rather sick of the word.

Truly the meaning of troll on line is much more varied than the typical idea of a stranger coming upon a forum and trying to inflame its inhabitants into some meaningless and dividing war of words.

Sometimes a troll is someone who just cant help but stir things up at every turn of the corner.
They often believe very heartily in what they argue but miss the point that they are being quite rude and that they are arguing a point that most find absurd.

Posters will of course respond with the general social cues that let most users know that the objection or point they were making is not one that is shared by many and most will politely back off and either let the thread or discussion die or apologize for being misunderstood.

This is not to say the user being trollish is necessarily wrong, just that they are either so concerned with winning an argument that they could care less if they offend, even over a small detail or they are socially inept and unable to recognize what the group finds unacceptable.

A trollish sort will carry on and on and on under the misguided idea that they are having some kind of social discourse when in reality they are just stirring up nonsense that will accomplish nothing.

This sort can see that they will not change others minds, but will still dwell on the topic as long as they can keep it going.

While not the type of troll many think of first off, the outcome is the same. A bevy of comments going round in a circle eventually ending in insults of some kind over a topic that the was high jacked by someone who just couldn't be more socially graceful.

A person can be highly intelligent and know a great deal of information but still not know how to act with other people or how to make a simple request or comment without appearing or sounding rude, petulant, or condescending.

Although many will not consider this a true troll, the solution is really the same. Do not feed them and they will move on to where there is more red meat.

"A person can be highly intelligent and know a great deal of information but still not know how to act with other people or how to make a simple request or comment without appearing or sounding rude, petulant, or condescending."

Sounds a lot like Asperger's Syndrome. Maureen, check your initial post requesting registered names of the winners. Your tone was well described by the adjectives listed above.

Lets stop this silly stuff. Very nice show with alot of nice dogs. And the blacks were a stand out. Guess, back to basics.

I have one name for Ms. Maureen Sullivan Gamble. Insufferable.

Kudos to Oliver for her post. I have to agree that to many breeders have a "holier than thou attitude". You are breeding dogs, get over yourselves, you are not the almighty creators and you certainly are not solving world hunger.

Just to add to this, this proves these posts don't only turn sour in Florida! Come back to reality, please. There is no right way and there isn't a wrong way. People do what works best for them with their own individual experiences and what they have learned from this to date.

Replying to:
I am envious of that side of our hobby, but I must say it is rather spoilt by the absolute savage nastiness of some of the participants in this great sport! Anyone from overseas would certainly think twice about approaching some of you regarding the possibility of buying a puppy or getting semen from your stud dogs based on your attitude to your fellow breeders and exhibitors.

"Just to add to this, this proves these posts don't only turn sour in Florida! Come back to reality, please. There is no right way and there isn't a wrong way. People do what works best for them with their own individual experiences and what they have learned from this to date."

You are certainly correct in that everyone has their own opinions, however it is utterly ridiculous for someone to say that people snobbishly refer to popular dogs by their call name in order to seem important. That is laughable. We refer to certain dogs by their call names because they are not untouchables. They are dogs who most of us have met at dog shows, held ringside when their owners/breeders are busy, helped feed or water, or simply went to talk to and enjoyed their company aside of their vans in an x-pen. They aren't defined by their loooong "show" name, they are who they are when their owner asks if they want to go out, want a cookie, quit jumping on me, go fetch the bumper, etc. That is not "name dropping" it's simply talking about a dog whose name is say Travis. He certainly doesn't know his Impressive name or his impressive credentials. Any breeder/judge worth their salt SHOULD know who Travis is right now and no Borador's Lord Travis was NOT called Travis at home. Geesh.

You took the high road and didn't respond to this. It's not easy to do when people are saying ugly things but kudos to you girl. Everyone should follow your example and end this silly bickering.

"I actually consider it an honor, and a positive statement, if someone recognizes who my girl was simply by her name Lacey. I know there are many other bitches named "Lacey" but for a time, in a particular time, just as with Gordy or Puffin or Travis, the name refers to one particular dog who has some name recognition for something.

Given Maureen that you have judged labs at 10 shows since 2004, I don't think it is a big deal to the honesty of your judging to actually "know" who Gordy or Travis or Puffin or my Lacey exactly is, at least by name.

And where you don't know, just ask, rather than making it a matter of ethics in judging or breeding or whatever. I would think, if you really care about the future of the breed, that you would go to dog shows just to see what the current dogs are about, how the breed is evolving, whether you like the direction or not, and in the process would absorb some names.

Bonnie "

Bonnie,

How many labrador show have you judged? You're counting how many Maureen has but you are not a judge yourself so you can't put yourself in her position.

You're speaking down to Maureen. Just because you had a winning bitch for one 1 year doesn't make you any better than anyone else on this list. You didn't breed her and you're not in Labs as long as many on this list.

You usually post only when it's about your dogs or co-owned dogs only. That's why you don't get many replies at times which you've complained about to others. People get tired of that type of behaviour Bonnie so they ignore your posts about placements.

If you are going to be critical of others, expect it back.

I don't always agree with Maureen but I think you used poor judgement in your response to her. Maybe you should think more before you post.

The Lacey I know and remember fondly is Jill's special Lacey, Wiscoy's Irish Lace at Brimar.

I think it is very neat and a tribute when we call the dogs by there "call name". Alot of us that show all the time and are doing our research all the time to breed the best that we can, know these names. We look for offsprings and siblings of these "names".
Think it would be an honor to have an "Arnold".

Hmmm.Sounds like Lab Breeder has a bit of the ol green eyed monster hanging about.
Personally I was happy to see what Bonnie wrote. It was what many were thinking.
Its like the person who sings karaoke always talking about how they must save their voice as if they have an opera performance that evening. Protecting yourself from the influence of knowing who is winning when you rarely are in the ring to judge strikes me that way. That or the person just wanted a way to point out that they judge.
Bonnie's talk of how sometimes if you are lucky enough to have that winning dog/bitch that has a recognized call name did not seem to me as bragging but as an honest expression of how she felt about being grateful to be in that position and how it just doesn't happen often.
Maybe her point was that you should let those that get to that point enjoy the rare moment as it is fleeting and may never happen again. The point about her breeding or not breeding her girl was just an obvious show of jealousy that we could all do without. So now people who win have no right to brag or be happy unless they whelped the pup? Some of us are sick and tired of all the kill joys always needing to point out the flaws, failings, and short comings of every person, win, dog, bitch that isn't their own.
Anyone who argues that this thread was not high jacked and turned into an idiotic exchange due to one person just plain being obnoxious and difficult either is using this as a chance to take out some personal aggression or just plain didnt get what everyone else got out of it.

Okay- is there any way we can change the title of this thread? The folks down in Charleston worked really hard to put on a great show for everyone and quite honestly, I think it's unfair to everyone who participated to have all of these negative connotations! The competition was deep, the dogs were spectacular, there was great comraderie amongst friends, fabulous food, a tent complete with HEATERS and even the weather turned nice.... C'mon!! I, for one, had a great time!!

Callnames or reg'd names? Why not write both? It doesn't take a lot of effort to do that. Not everyone on this forum is living in America - although some of you obviously think so. Believe me, there IS a world outside America!!
Personally, I think it's rather disrespectful to foreign readers to only mention the callnames.
Not every one of them knows who you are talking about when you just write James or Travis or whatever...

I took it as calling a spade a spade. Some people really seem to have unrealistic attitudes.

Speaking of call names, has anyone ever heard of BJ, Abe, Bud, Sam, Jack, Ruger, Charlie,
Amos, Gatsby, Patton, Willie, Alex, Sonny ....??? Of course not, because you bred them Maureen.

It is not politically correct to call a spade a spade anymore!

Spades are either "gardening utensils" or they maybe one of those "funny little figures that appear on 25% of the cards in a deck".

Sounds like a conundrum to me, you seem to know them yourself!

Stop this mess. We don't want to take up the space with all this. It was a very nice show with a chance to visit with alot of nice breeders and owners. The Club did great, as always. Always a good show. Dogs were some of the tops. Congrats to all.

Oh, and while I'm at it - all these dogs you know named James, and Scrubs, and all the rest - we aren't interested in back yard stuff.

Great job, you guys, on a wonderful show in Charleston. Yes, the blacks stood out for sure!