Would you use this stud dog?

Champion,OFA excellent, normal elbows, Optigen A, heart , CERF but with slight entropian?
His eyes just look a little droopy on dusty days....CERF'ed without this before but not this time- this Opthomoligst said it is because he has a big head?????? So use him with bitches whose head needs improvement .........

What?????????

sure as long as your girl has tight eyes.
it can happen to the big boys with extra jowls, tends to pull on the face.
such a minute issue in the big picture

Do you mean ectropian? Entropian turns inward, Ectropian droops

NO - she put entropian on the form.Can they droop and be entropian?

Not necessarily a BIG head but if there is a lot of fur and excess wrinkles on the face the eyelids can
turn inward and lashes can irritate or even scratch
the eyes and cause tearing and discomfort. Your vet can actually zap the inward eyelashes, sort of like doggie electrolosis, to remove offending lashes.
This might have to be done twice but that is one solution to removing an eyelash or two permanently and having your dog live comfortably with entropia

Use him with a bitch that has a nice head and correct eye. When you evaluate the litter, try to see if the eyes are correct - it can be hard to tell on 8 week old pups. Sometimes they can be a little loose as they grow, but can be correct as adults.

Yes, I would, with the right bitch.

From a different perspective, I would find the best overall stud for the bitch. There will always be some flaw or another because no dog is perfect. Just be sure it is a flaw you are willing to make a part of your future, because some dogs are DOMINANT for their worst feature ... that is an application of Murphy's Law. If it is a flaw you wouldn't be willing to keep yourself, then be very careful about letting it into your breeding program. There are LOTS of good dogs out there with different flaws. Pick the ones you can live with.

As long as you know the bitch line well and are certain that you are not doubling up, then sure, why not?

Here's the question you really have to ask yourself...

If you decide to use him knowing this could be a problem that gets passed on, and any of the pups end up with this condition, are you prepaired to step up and help pay for any corrective sergeries and then make the decision NOT to use him again? If so, then go ahead with eyes open. If not, then maybe you should look for another stud.

I used a stud with a lot of face and neck skin, on a bitch without any concerns in that area....I got 7 healthy puppies and one entropian. Managed to tack the lower lid that was rolling in and rubbing on the eye down with a suture (took two times over two weeks) and it corrected itself as the puppy grew into it's skin. Over all litter was lovely and I'm still glad I did it.

Yes, I would. Most straighten out anyway when the heads start maturing. I very, very seldom ever hear of anyone with this problem. If they do its so small they don't do anything. If it is turning in you might need to. Big heads, extra skin, does not bother me at all.

I would if he would overall improve my bitch

for what ever it is worth I would take the chance , I first would check back some and see if there has been a similar problem behind him. gives you more info for a decission

first: why use a dog with a big head? best to use a dog who has a head that is according to the standard!no such thing as Big head required there! and second: as maureen said: so many dogs who dont have the problem .. so why breeding it in? and even when not keeping a puppy from the litter yourself .. do you want someone else lateron to have this problem with one of his/her puppy?
just my opnion ..

I have a bitch that had several litters that has entropian. She never threw it once with 4 different stud dogs. All 4 did not have entropian obviously.

If your bitch has too moderate of a head, there is no reason you can't use a boy with a larger head. Some might have just what you're looking for, some might have a larger head and some might be the same as your girl has.

I don't agree Sylvia, if you need more of something in your girl look for it in the stud but don't always expect it to happen with every pup.

in our country and in several others it is not allowed to breed with dogs who have entropion /ectropion /or had it fixed.

In the U.S of A. entropion is a breeders option. If you surf the OFA site there are many breeders option for eyes. I don't understand some of them to do with the cornea.

An apology for the typo error of entropion in my last post.

I pity those breeders in countries where the government dictates what and how and when they can breed their dogs

Thank goodness for FREEDOM!!

And I love big headed dogs. They just say hug me.
When you breed to the big head and your girl is very moderate, hopefully you get the right standard.

governement does not dictate us! it is the code of ethics you stick to .. trying to breed good looking& healthy dogs according to the standard and do all possible for it to come as close to that standard!..dont think a dog with entropion/ectropion is within that standard ..and what will you tell the puppyowners when they get a puppy with entropion: " hey , dont worry we just tack/fix it"??Entropion can always pop up .. but breeding with dogs who have this is not fair towards those buyers who think to get a healthy puppy etc .. but like said : just my opinion!

I would think there are a ton of great dogs out there without entropian. Not that entropian is bad, but surely there is better.

If people were allowed the freedom to do as they please when it comes to breeding then we would not be reducing the number of dogs with issues - entropian, ectropian, dysplasia (hip & elbow) etc.
I am really pleased that here in Australia we have breed clubs and a national association that has recognised the need for guidelines in regards to breeding. In Australia we can face huge penalties for knowingly breeding from parents that have certain hereditary conditions.
Not going to stop the back yard breeders but at least there are some of us that have the welfare of all of the pups that we breed in consideration.
Would I use this stud dog? Definately not when there are obviously others around that are just as good if not better and not showing an hereditary disease.

thanks emma for your reply! we have a code of ethics to stick to and breeding/using dogs who have entropion are not done!
like said by others, so many other good dogs .. so why breed in what you dont have/want?