Could someone tell me about a Swimmer's Link? Also, how does one tell the differance between that and a bad topline?

Are you talking about "swimmer" pups and info about that or ?????

No, it's called a 'swimmer's link' and it part of the build of the topline.

Interesting - I'll have to check back to find out more too.

A swimmer's link refers to the hinge (found just behind the withers) which provides buoyancy for our breed, allowing it to swim with its head carrying a duck and its topline level on the water. Without this leverage, a Lab's body would follow the line from the neck obliquely downwards and the otter tail would not be able to function as a rudder on the surface, changing direction effortlessly to turn in the water. Imagine how hard the dog would have to kick under the water just to move forward if this hinge dig not allow for a correction of position.

It could be George Bragaw who coined the term...

Tks for the info - very interesting!

A level topline means that the withers and croup are on the same plane, or are the same height, not that there is an unbroken ramrod straight line from withers to tail. Some people are confused that a sloping topline is correct and that a "swimmer's link" indicates a poor topline. George Bragaw always used the term "swimmer's link" to describe the necessary "hinge" behind the shoulders which allows the dog to swim and retrieve properly.

what does a topline with swimmer's link look like? is it level or is there a dip just behind the withers?

There is a dip behind the withers.

A level topline usually does (to be correct for swimming and retrieving in the water) have the "swimmer's link". Don't confuse a level topline with a ramrod straight line from withers to tail.

"A level topline means that the withers and croup are on the same plane, or are the same height, not that there is an unbroken ramrod straight line from withers to tail. Some people are confused that a sloping topline is correct and that a "swimmer's link" indicates a poor topline. George Bragaw always used the term "swimmer's link" to describe the necessary "hinge" behind the shoulders which allows the dog to swim and retrieve properly. "


I rarely post here but Topline, you described that to a T.

But it is very confusing. A level topline and one with a dip behind the withers seem to be two different things????????????

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Replying to:

A level topline usually does (to be correct for swimming and retrieving in the water) have the "swimmer's link". Don't confuse a level topline with a ramrod straight line from withers to tail.

can someone post a link to a picture of a lab with the proper attributes being described here, that is a proper topline and the link?

"A level topline means that the withers and croup are on the same plane, or are the same height, not that there is an unbroken ramrod straight line from withers to tail. "

Okay so by the above defination of a level topline the middle of the back could be lower than the withers and the croup right? the back could then look like it had a sag in the middle right?

http://www.blacklab.com.br/images/GBCHFabrackenComedyStar.jpg

http://labradornet.com/charway_ballywillwill_.jpg

http://canaanlandlabradors.com/Drifter2.jpg

http://retriever.com.ua/photo/R_Edvards_vnutriporodnie_tipi/3.jpg

So is the link just the shoulder blade protruding?

"Okay so by the above defination of a level topline the middle of the back could be lower than the withers and the croup right? the back could then look like it had a sag in the middle right? "

Look at the photographs...... I would not call that a sag..... It's proper comformation..... that assists in doing all the things a lab should be able to....... swim for beginners and allot more......

As topline said.......

"A level topline means that the withers and croup are on the same plane, or are the same height, not that there is an unbroken ramrod straight line from withers to tail. "

"But it is very confusing. A level topline and one with a dip behind the withers seem to be two different things???????????? "

What some of us think.........is a level topline is not truly it.... The swimmers link ........means something.... not a sag but not as level at the swimmer's link as it is at the withers and the croup...... you don't want a ramrod topline that he's discussing........ that's incorrect conformation!!!! ......... you also don't want a sloping topline...... Am I explaining it okay?????? Help!!!!!!

We need good diagrams..... Does anyone have something good??????....... This could be a really good topic...... OP Confused ....... had a really great leading question...... we're all trying to learn with you Confused......

I am not an artist, but I tried. Hope this helps.

1 - is the neck
2 - is a well laid back shoulder
3 - is the swimmer's link
4 - top line



Jan

What George called "Swimmer's Link", Quentin LaHamm called the "Kanick". It was Quentin's made up word, hence, the spelling. Same thing that George always referred to.

Thanks everyone!

The topline on a dog is not just from the loins to the tail. The topline refers to the outline created by the spinal cord process from the withers to the end of the croup at the base of the tail.

Does the link become more or less pronounced when a dog is moving at a conformation ring trot?

And I think the link should probably not be confused with the roll of poor shoulders. Another question I would have (and maybe it should be another thread) is can you get that roll from being overweight when in fact shoulders are pretty decent?

A strong topline should hold on the move as it does when standing still.

Here is a Labrador diagram showing correct topline: Labrador Judges' Teach-In held in West Sussex, UK in June 1993

http://pic19.picturetrail.com/VOL1075/4203480/17095222/264895047.jpg

The picture posted by JanisG had the arrow covering what I wanted to see. I know the location I wanted to see the top line created by the swimmer link.

Excellent, Jan, on the visual for those that weren't aware. The person who articulated it in an earlier post did a great job as well~

Hi ?,

Pull up the original photo - http://labradornet.com/charway_ballywillwill_.jpg

and compare it to mine . That should answer your question.

Janis G