Anyone care to offer their polite opinion? Would like this to stay nice please

Do you mean producers or just conformation wise.

I'd love to hear about top producers!

I'll start:

Gordy

Producers

Tabathas Sport

I do love what Sport has produced! What a great boy indeed, and a lovable one at that

Keep 'em comin' thanks

Ch. Lubberline Martingale

BISS Ghoststone's Louie Downtown and CH Langshot's Galeforce have both contributed alot to the breed with wonderful get.

What's The BUZZ?

Lo Buffs Bare Necessities

If you are asking about dogs that are still "in service" - Shute

Sperm in service

Dickendall Arnold!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Lubberline Martingale
Sunset Lubberline Spinnaker
Veyaties Barra
Borador's By George
Lenches Teddy Bear
Talimar Trendsetter

BUZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last time I checked, Arnold was BLACK

He is not yellow - He is black.

Is he still with us? Heard about him.Never saw him in motion...........

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPSSSSSSSSSSSSS

sorry.got a little excited.

Its ok :) Color doesnt exactly matter.

Thanks!

Chablais Brookhill Joss!!!

ok how many of you "Breeders" are talking to yourselves???????
RIDICULOUS!!
Can't you think of something a bit more unique so it doesn't look like one crazy person keeps asking and answering themself???

I think this is a great question. The blacks have looked so good lately I have been thinking of the few good yellows. And there are black boys who have produced good yellows. Dickendall Gable being one of them, the Lubberline boys for sure and Langshot Galeforce. "Gerry" has been a great producer. There would be new boys coming along, but as far as, looking back in pedigrees for a stud that is repeated alot these are top.

He was black.

Again, a black.

Who is Gerry??

This is why I asked. Some of the stronger producers have been the blacks in my opinion. Was looking for a yellow, or at least a BY! Thanks for the input!

CH Langshott Gale Force from Kimvalley. Garry, not Gerry.

I would say "Eng. Sh. Ch. Sandylands Gad-About"

Where to see Garry?

Contact Winnie Limbourne at Wingmaster or Betty Buelteman at Kayo Labradors

You guys have very short memories.

Tweedledum Brookland Savoy
Cranspire Receiver

Receiver of Cranspire not Cranspire Receiver

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You guys have very short memories.

Tweedledum Brookland Savoy
Cranspire Receiver

Any list I made would have to have Eng/Am Ch. Sandylands Midas at the top. He is close to my interpretation of the standard (except I like a bit longer neck). He set type for the breed on this continent in his day - just as his brother Mark did in the UK.

My all time fav....Fletcher, aka Ch Boradors Ridgeway Reflection

I like alot of Marty & Chute's offsprings

I completely agree with you Maureen

One to watch is CH Talimar's Trendsetter "Blake". One of my all time favorites CH Boradors by George "Gordy". I also like Marty and Chute (Lubberline).

Just to clarify

Ch.Sunnybrook Tiger Hawk,for me he is a lovely and almost no one had used him

I completely agree on Blake. He is quite a cutie!

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One to watch is CH Talimar's Trendsetter "Blake". One of my all time favorites CH Boradors by George "Gordy". I also like Marty and Chute (Lubberline).

CH.Cherry Oaks Dillon Sundance, was a wonderful producer
as was Vanny & Duke

Bradking Hugo
Rocheby Royal Oak
Poolstead Pretentious at Rocheby
Boradors By George
Lenches Gallivant
Lenches Teddy Bear
Autumn's Thunder Visions
Scent Trails Tug of War
Receiver of Cranspire
Borador's Ridgeway Reflection

Darn! My secret is out. Now you know I am dyslectic.

Got it... too funny!

I am sure I could find one in one of the old breed books but.....do you happen to have a good picture of Midas??.....or point me to the right book (I bet I have it).

thanks

I'd have to say Gordie today. He's produced some of the nicest yellows I've seen. I'd also have to include Marty in my short list.

Off the top of my head
Lubberline Martingale
Autumns Thunder Visions
Trendlewood Song for Guy
Dovetails Walk the Walk
Forestwood Gone Hollywood At Montview
Crossfield's Cobham
Tabatha's Burly
Caer Bren Super Hero
Boradors Hush Money
Boradors The Goblin

Marty, By George, and north of the border George,s brother Cash, all throwing great .

My favorite photo was in The Book of the Labrador Retriever. I have reproduced it on my website as part of an article. Here is the link
http://www.nimloth.com/pastlabs.htm

Tabathas Burlys brother Tabathas Bluster that resides in Canada is also producing well,,

thanks Maureen, very interesting to see the past labrador breed type and to compare it to todays labradors

Thank God our labs don't look like that anymore.

Seriously? Did you just say that? Without the dogs of the past, you wouldn't have the dogs of today.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dogs/pictures/222140.jpg

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I am sure I could find one in one of the old breed books but.....do you happen to have a good picture of Midas??.....or point me to the right book (I bet I have it).

thanks

Maybe YOUR Labs do not look that way. Many around the world still resemble Midas and/or Sam - and still win at the highest levels

Wow -- I cannot believe you just said that.

"Breeder" - check your pedigrees - THEY ALL GO BACK TO THE OLD STUFF!

Thank you to Folks such as Sandylands, Poolstead, JaynCourt, Lindall, Carpenny, Rocheby, Cambremer and SO many others!

Luckily -- there are kennels that still have Labradors that show the "Old English true Labrador".

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Thank God our labs don't look like that anymore.

I forgot Blaircourt as well!

Lobuff Hollyridge the Aviator
Ginander's Blue Suede Shoes
Summerset Buoys Nite Out

Yes. And all those dogs were beautiful for their time. If we go far enough back in our dogs pedigrees, we will go back to wolves. Wolves are beautiful, but I wouldn't want a lab that looks like one. We wouldn't have labs without wolves. But, what would you do if you were a judge, and one of those dogs walked into the ring today? Be truthful? Would you say, Oh my, he looks just like Sam, so I'll give him BOB? No, I would think you would not even place him. I am not denying the importance of these dogs in the development of the lab. Thank God for them. But, I wouldn't want to have one that looked like they did now. Can you tell me one kennel that will breed for that look now? Show me a photo of one dog today. The lab, as have most domestic dogs, has been selectively bred over the years, hopefully to improve them. I like today's dog better than the dogs from those days. Would you want to see the lab look like that again? I am not knocking the labs of yesterday, just thankful that we have improved them to what we see today.

Look around u will still see Labradors that look like that today.

Please post a photo of a dog that looks like that today.

WHO?????

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Lobuff Hollyridge the Aviator
Ginander's Blue Suede Shoes
Summerset Buoys Nite Out

this thread is about yellows that produce,, show wins have nothing to do with it, a stud dogs worth is in his get.

I was not able to find websites for all the kennels you mentioned, but if you look at the dogs on a few that you mentioned, you will see that the labs look like our more modern day lab than the labs of yesteryear. So, have they improved, since these big name kennels have changed their style dog, or not? I cannot find a show kennel that breeds dogs like those of days gone by. Can you show us one?



http://www.sandylands.net/Stud%20Dogs.html


http://www.rochebylabradors.co.uk/studs.htm


http://www.caccia.se/Cambremer.htm

Not everyone agrees that the dogs of today are necessarily better. I think the most dogs of today are just MORE, of everything.

Every now and then I will see something that is a little LESS, reminding me of the older style Lab, and it's refreshing!

Not all of them. There are many beautiful dogs that are more moderate than some of the big boys we see today. But, none of them look like the original Labradors.

You realize Rocheby is still around - and winning a lot in the ring and outside of the ring.

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I was not able to find websites for all the kennels you mentioned, but if you look at the dogs on a few that you mentioned, you will see that the labs look like our more modern day lab than the labs of yesteryear. So, have they improved, since these big name kennels have changed their style dog, or not? I cannot find a show kennel that breeds dogs like those of days gone by. Can you show us one?



http://www.sandylands.net/Stud%20Dogs.html


http://www.rochebylabradors.co.uk/studs.htm


http://www.caccia.se/Cambremer.htm

Yes, and I love their dogs! But they do not look like the old style labs! That is my point!

Rockycreek I have noticed breeds a more moderate, older style dog

Some of them definitely do! I've seen them myself.

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Yes, and I love their dogs! But they do not look like the old style labs! That is my point!

Yes, but they look nothing like those old stlye labs.

ME-OW

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Replying to:

this thread is about yellows that produce,, show wins have nothing to do with it, a stud dogs worth is in his get.

Ok, PLEASE find me a photo of a modern day lab that looks like the old style in Maureen's photos. Prove your point!

wrong again. they certainly do.

Nimloth Gabout.

And the great thing is -- as she said earlier in this thread -- Sandylands Mark -- You can look at her kennel today and see resemblances throughout her dogs.

Ok, so you look at this dog:
http://www.nimloth.com/gabby.htm


And think it looks like this dog?:
http://www.nimloth.com/pastlabs.htm

I guess our argument is wasted then, because we are just seeing the dogs differently. I don't think they look alike at all, other than that they are both labs. Bill Clinton's Buddy was a lab, too, but I don't think he resembles any of mine.

Ok --- Do you not see how much Gabby resembles Sam?

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Ok, so you look at this dog:
http://www.nimloth.com/gabby.htm


And think it looks like this dog?:
http://www.nimloth.com/pastlabs.htm

I guess our argument is wasted then, because we are just seeing the dogs differently. I don't think they look alike at all, other than that they are both labs. Bill Clinton's Buddy was a lab, too, but I don't think he resembles any of mine.

Only that they are both labs. But take them piece by piece, and there is little resemblance.

Ok different eyes - and that is fine.

In all seriousness, do you think that there will be a trend back toward the Labrador of old? All I have to judge by is that they appear to be a more moderate dog than some of the bigger (boys especially) of today.

No. I think Sam more resembles a curly coat (minus the curls)

http://www.akc.org/breeds/curly_coated_retriever/index.cfm

Midas didnt look like his pictures, I have never seen a good picture of him . He was not moderate but a lovely chunky dog with a great coat. He would fit in today.

He lived nearby and I saw him ofter as well as bred to him.

Very good to know Goldie. :)

Sure hope they don't go back. I will just stop breeding and leave the fun hobby. Some mentioned just are to young to know how much they will offer. Others are very proven. We are not talking about wins.

Good lord, Maureen - you're using CALL NAMES????
I'm assuming that since you're buried in the past your "Sam" must mean Sam of Blaircourt, but it could mean more than a few others as well.

But assuming you meant Sam of Blaircourt, can you PLEASE post a link to a current dog that looks like that who is winning today in conformation? And please, not something you've put up.

I love my first truck, a 1972 Chevy pickup (ol' yeller), bought it when I was a senior in high school. It was the truck of my dreams and pretty darn good in it's day. Lot's of good miles and memories.

But now..... I REALLY LOVE my new Duramax Quad cab! Way better and much more improved than ol' yeller.

Hhhhuuuummmmmm - anyone see a comparison here?

Just wondering

You DO know that Eng/Am. Ch. Sam of Blaircourt was the dog used for the breed standard illustration for 2 decades, right??? Not at all like a GOOD Curly. Read the standards and you will see what I mean.

I used a single name because I was referencing a SPECIFIC picture on MY website where each of the dogs is clearly labeled. The only SAM in that set of four dogs is Eng/Am. Ch. Sam of Blaircourt.

For those asking to see photos of current dogs that look like the old ones, WHICH of the old ones? Those are quite different dogs - that was the point of the illustration. Each of the pair of dogs winning at the same time did not look like each other, so WHICH dog would you like to see in a current example?

If you picked Midas (yes, the only one labeled as Midas in that photo array), then you might want to look at this additional photo grouping.
http://nimloth.com/45yrs.jpg
The bitch at the bottom of the group is not set up like the other two - head is not up level, etc. If she were, I think you would see the style has not changed much - although each dog is individually different from the others. The name of the photo tells the story. These three dogs were born 45 years apart. All are champions that finished young and easily.

BTW, the bitch at the bottom is the dam of my current yellow youngsters and the middle dog is the sire. I would have jumped at a chance to breed that bitch to the dog at the top in a HEARTBEAT if he were alive or there had been frozen semen available

If you were asked to judge Potomac, and Sam and/or Midas came into the ring with all of today's best, would you put one or the other of them up instead of one of today's type?

It would, of course, depend on the dog on the day. I feel that both of those dogs are a closer model of the standard than MANY of the dogs shown today. Since Eng/Am Ch. Sam of Blaircourt WAS the model for the standard for a lot of years, it would be hard to argue against that point

That doesn't mean there aren't some currently that are similar and on a par to those old timers. The English judges generally seem to find those more moderate (standard) dogs when they judge at Potomac, so I'd guess that I might be lucky enough to find some also

Just FYI, "Buzz" (Mulitple BISS BIS AM. Can Ch. Aquarius Centercourt Delight, JH, WC) is alive and well and living in retirement and still standing at stud at my home!!!

Mureen I think you lost your front somewhere along your Journey from top to bottom

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I used a single name because I was referencing a SPECIFIC picture on MY website where each of the dogs is clearly labeled. The only SAM in that set of four dogs is Eng/Am. Ch. Sam of Blaircourt.

For those asking to see photos of current dogs that look like the old ones, WHICH of the old ones? Those are quite different dogs - that was the point of the illustration. Each of the pair of dogs winning at the same time did not look like each other, so WHICH dog would you like to see in a current example?

If you picked Midas (yes, the only one labeled as Midas in that photo array), then you might want to look at this additional photo grouping.
http://nimloth.com/45yrs.jpg
The bitch at the bottom of the group is not set up like the other two - head is not up level, etc. If she were, I think you would see the style has not changed much - although each dog is individually different from the others. The name of the photo tells the story. These three dogs were born 45 years apart. All are champions that finished young and easily.

BTW, the bitch at the bottom is the dam of my current yellow youngsters and the middle dog is the sire. I would have jumped at a chance to breed that bitch to the dog at the top in a HEARTBEAT if he were alive or there had been frozen semen available

AS I mentioned, the photo at the bottom is not set up the same and the bitch is not "over" her front legs. She has a quite nice front, but I think the one on the top dog is better. That is why I would have gladly bred her to him.

The real issue here is that all three are similar in TYPE and STYLE and BALANCE. For those who think a dog like Eng/Am Ch. Sandylands Midas could not win today would be in error. Jenny finished easily just a couple of years ago and Midas - by comments of the previous poster - had a better front

BTW, my name is Maureen. If you get confused or can't spell it, just look at any of my posts - I ALWAYS give my name, so you can just copy and paste it.

Sorry to have to say this, I don't think Gabby looks a lot like Eng/Am Ch. Sam of Blaircourt either. Of course, I lived with her, so knew her from all angles. However, I DID have a bitch that was very like Sam in type to my eye.
Lacy
This is MY Lacy and the only one that comes to mind when I hear the name

For those of you who chose to take a look at Maureen's Nimloth Victoria's Secret (Lacy) and would not be proud to have such a beautiful balanced bitch (& I mean the black one in the picture ) in your breeding program or on your show team for that matter, then I think you may need to take a real serious look at the direction you are taking with your dogs.

JMHO after only 34 years in the breed

Yes, Maureen we know your name because it appears on EVERY post. You must sit at your keyboard 24/7.

I think we know the answer to that question.
Todays type came from yesterdays type, obviously but what Maureen is failing to accept is that todays type is an IMPROVEMENT, as it should be. Or we aren't doing our jobs!
If todays type looked just like the dogs of yesteryear, we would all need to take a look at where the heck we are headed. Hence, have we been spinning our wheels???
Change is good Maureen.

Go take you anti grump and I will not be so bitchy pills & go to bed, you might feel better in the morning

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Yes, Maureen we know your name because it appears on EVERY post. You must sit at your keyboard 24/7.

It's the truth. Check it out.
It's so obvious she enjoys this turmoil. You have to be an idiot to not realize it. It's like a teenager getting attention whether it be good attention or bad, it's still attention. Sure she has tons of experience with Labs. Do we have to keep hearing about it every day?

Then don't read her posts you bloody clot!!

Some things may have improved over the years, but improving fronts and movement or whatever does not equate to increasing bone to a massive state or requiring tons of open fluffy coat, which is what we are seeing a lot of today. Going from moderate to substantial is not an improvement, it is merely a change. No Labrador standard describes a dog with massive bone, so equating moderate with mediocre is incorrect. As far as other areas, I think we have lost a lot of the reach of neck you can still see in the UK, as well as the short tight coats, which are much more conducive to repelling water than many of the coats that are in style today. Given that most of the more moderate dogs of yesterday were actually active working dogs, I will take that over the massive dogs of today, many of whom have never been required to prove their merit in the field.

I respectfully disagree. Our task as breeders is to PRESERVE the breed, not CHANGE it. If you like a DIFFERENT dog, then there are plenty of other breeds that may suit your fancy. I hate to see the Lab go the way of the Cocker Spaniel - and the "improvements" in recent years have been similar to that breed's alteration.

The Cocker of the 40s was what is now called the English Cocker. The fad and fancy was to make them shorter in stature and heavier in body. The head slowly changed to have shorter muzzles, deeper stops, rounder skulls and round eyes. It is what I call the "Teddy Bear" look - very appealing to the common eye, but not in keeping with the standard or function of the Cocker. The other MAJOR change was the profuse coat. All of these alterations to the Cocker were to suit the "eye" of those who were set on "changing" or "improving" the breed to fit THEIR taste instead of following the guidelines of the standard of that time. I think it is a cautionary tale that needs to be remembered by those who let personal taste and popular fashion take precedence over the dog defined in the standard.

Change IS good... as long as it is toward a set goal. The closer we breed to the established standard for the breed, the better the breed will be overall. As long as people breed for their OWN PERSONAL taste instead of a common standard in the name of "improvement", the more diverse and deviant the breed will become.

You are welcome to RESPECTFULLY disagree.

P.I.A.W.

I sure do agree with this. So many fluffy, soft, open coats. Those dogs would freeze in the cold water my dogs happily swim in.

Interesting comment. It shows how strongly my opinions and posts impress some people. I post on about 1 topic in 10. Really... look for yourself, Nameless. If my comment listing the name of a yellow stud dog I thought was important to the breed had just been added to the list like most people's, none of us would have had to waste any time with all the additional (and off topic) questions and sniping. If Ms. Nameless would spend LESS time at the computer just trying to make trouble with personal insults, we could all enjoy the forum more - and maybe even discuss the actual TOPICS.

"Interesting comment. It shows how strongly my opinions and posts impress some people."

Maureen, there's a big difference between impress and disgust. Learn it.

The degree of one's emotions varies inversely with one's knowledge of the facts.

Bertrand Russell

I have no problem with any of Maureen;s dogs. But, I don't think any of them look like Sam. If I saw a dog today that looked like Sam, I would cringe. That is not to take away from the contribution he made to the breed for his time, but I would not want to see labs still looking like that today.

I don't know why you have such a problem with Maureen. While I might not always agree with her, I have no problem with reading her posts. Sometimes I learn something. Try it sometime.

Maureen I don't agree with you all the time. I do like a dog with more substance than you. We all like something a little different. But stop letting those two or three jerks push your buttons. Just leave them hanging next time. We know you are full of experience and have a opinion of your own. We all do.

That is unfortunate. He was the model for the breed for a long, long time. Perhaps you have only seen photos that you didn't care for, but he was a very nice dog - for both his time and for the breed. As I commented earlier, I think my "Lacy" is very similar in style - and I DO like her. But then, she may not be at all to your taste either - taste and type are two different things.

Thanks for the comment. I try to keep my emotions out of what should be an informational exchange. I thought the Bertrand Russell quote was appropriate - sometimes those who just want to bicker really don't have a grasp of the topic, so are easily swayed by their emotions to make PERSONAL statements instead of sticking to the subject. It doesn't benefit any of us - even them.

Trinity's Titus.

Couldn't agree more!!! They are lovely and have produced beautiful babies!!

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BISS Ghoststone's Louie Downtown and CH Langshot's Galeforce have both contributed alot to the breed with wonderful get.

It's a shame that most of you on this list were not able to see Sam and Midas. We wouldn't be having this discussion if you had.

More yellow boys that produce consistently?

She may reply to 1 out of 10 posts, but she highjacks the ones she does. I only read 1 out of her 10 replies because it becomes blah blah blah. She does have experience, things to say that are valid, but blah blah blah the way it's offered I feel like taking a bow.

Are we losing an interesting topic? I want to add to the magnificient list of boys mentionned:

"CHABLAIS RHAPSODIE EN BLEU".

went to see Bleu but after a short look I left because of the LOUD,CRAPPY music on the site. Don't bother telling me to mute it, it's much easier for me to leave...

Oh that music IS bad! I can never understand why people put music on their sites...

I can understand the crappy music comment... but I'm talking about the dog, not the music. It doesn't take away his qualities.

The music doesn't take away his qualities but the music stopped me from looking at him for any length of time. That's MY point.
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I can understand the crappy music comment... but I'm talking about the dog, not the music. It doesn't take away his qualities.

"She may reply to 1 out of 10 posts, but she highjacks the ones she does. "

Actually, it is the people who make off-topic comments like the bulk of your post that hi-jack the subjects. They want to make it about people instead of the subject. If my comments about the topic were just taken as offered and the snipers didn't try to make it personal, you would see my name a lot less frequently. That would make ALL of us happier with the true discussions.

So... consider your PERSONAL sniping to have contributed to one more post by me. If you had just talked about "Bleu", you would not have heard from me again on this thread. It is your "blah, blah, blah" that caused this reply, so take responsibility for your own actions, hi-jacker!

Now... can we stop this PERSONAL nonsense and talk about DOGS???

I agree with the quoted post, you can't like everything in life or have it your way all the time. Grow up, read the posts, stop being so critical and move on. Keep your personal opinions about someone else to yourself. Judging the way you act, who will value your opinion?
--------------------------------
"She may reply to 1 out of 10 posts, but she highjacks the ones she does. "

Actually, it is the people who make off-topic comments like the bulk of your post that hi-jack the subjects. They want to make it about people instead of the subject. If my comments about the topic were just taken as offered and the snipers didn't try to make it personal, you would see my name a lot less frequently. That would make ALL of us happier with the true discussions.

So... consider your PERSONAL sniping to have contributed to one more post by me. If you had just talked about "Bleu", you would not have heard from me again on this thread. It is your "blah, blah, blah" that caused this reply, so take responsibility for your own actions, hi-jacker!

Now... can we stop this PERSONAL nonsense and talk about DOGS???