Stud Dogs of the Past

How many of us would use the very famous stud dogs of yesteryear?

They were great in their time but since the standard changed and breeders set new trends would they still be so great and would they still get used?

How much have Labradors changed in the last 25 years?

I think this is a touchy topic for some, and for others a very attractive topic.

There are several breeders who are breeding for what we call todays Labrador, and there are still "some" breeders who still care and drive for the old Labrador type.

I would love to be able to breed to Ch Sandylands My Guy

IMO, Labradors have gone from a very fit "Field Type" Labrador to shorter, a lot heavier, more coated less fit Labradors.

Another thing to add is that a lot has changed since the Labradors of yester'year --- not just views of Breeders on what the actual Labrador should look like - but also the type of Pet Foods that we have available to us etc.

There are quite a few labradors that were great producers and stud dogs of yesteryear that i'd give my eye teeth to be able to breed to. I tend to in my breeding program look for that good old fashioned pedigree and keep breeding into it.

Of the kennels that are no longer around, Marshland, Valleywood, Shadowvale, Ranbourne, Mijan, Springharbor, Springfield to name a few all had correct type dogs with beautiful structure that I believe could compete and win in today's show ring.
JMHO
Aloha,
Jackie

I'll tell you this much - I would breed my Optigen A bitch to Rever (Ch. Receiver of Cranspire) in a New York second if I could, and test everything in the litter. OMG, that dog could produce. And I'm totally aware - I'm anon on this one because I know the emotions and misinformation and just plain crap that people are carrying around in their baggage about that old boy. Too bad he's gone....

I would totally breed to a stud dog of yesteryear!!! I think they would STILL have alot to offer even if types have changed over the years!

I second Receiver - have him in most of my pedigrees here and boy does his quality it carry down if bred right!

I have already commented on another thread that I would breed to Eng/Am Ch. Sandylands Midas today if he were alive. He set type in this country much as his brother did in the UK.

This thread too?????

Valerie Walters and Ranbourne still exists.

If there were in the world today any large number of people who desired their own happiness more than they desired the unhappiness of others, we could have paradise in a few years.

Bertrand Russell

I found that out after my post as I got a very very nice email from her, a lady that i've admired for years :}... I thought she had gotten out of labradors as i've not heard about any of her dogs recently... so glad to know she's still around and doing well!
Aloha,
jackie

Guess I'd need to see them in their back yards before taking the final plunge, but dogs I would be tempted to use even today are Ruler, Mark, Stormer, Squire, Ballywillwill and, even though he is not quite in the same category, Heron's Court for his type coupled with working ability and incomparable temperament.

Dr. Kris Kofron of Valleywood Labradors is still around too, yes?

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Replying to:

I found that out after my post as I got a very very nice email from her, a lady that i've admired for years :}... I thought she had gotten out of labradors as i've not heard about any of her dogs recently... so glad to know she's still around and doing well!
Aloha,
jackie

One thing that is often forgotten is that the original labs that were brought to the USA were the English working dogs. It was for sport for the wealthy and not only did they import the dogs, they imported English gamekeepers to train them. The labs that were shown in the show ring in England at that time are more similar to today's conformation labs. Only later did the wealthy people decide to start conformation competitions and they started with the field types they had.

Dogs shown in the show ring should also be working dogs - the original point of showing was to exhibit breeding stock, not to develop a separate sport unto itself. That is what it has become, probably because it is easier to focus on one aspect or another rather than do the truly hard work of focusing on the whole dog, which should always be expected to function as a working gundog as well as exhibit breed type. Focusing on one extreme (as it has become) or another inevitably will lead to changes in the breed. However, change in and of itself does not equate to improvement, it is simply change. Personal preference does not equate to what is correct under the standard. There are many dogs of the past that not only fit the standard for physical conformation, but their breeders also ensured they exhibited a good work ethic and fit the standard for temperament. I would give my eyeteeth to have the option to breed to those dogs rather than having to settle for one who is in physical fashion but has no proven work ethic, or for one that has a great work ethic but does not exhibit physical breed type.

I certainly agree that I would like a typey dog with a great work ethic and working ability. However, there is a split, though not as extreme, between conformation and working labs in England. The point was that many of the early US conformation winners from the period referenced were not as typey as the top conformation dogs in England at that time.

How many of the winning dogs from the past year that you have actually SEEN, look like this and fit these descriptions?

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/109
http://www.akc.org/breeds/labrador_retriever/

Certainly true of some lines early in this country, but not all of them. Many of the early imports were from the SAME lines as the champion and dual-purpose dogs in England, Ireland, Scotland, etc. The dogs us yanks were allowed to import may not have always been the "cream of the crop" though We do owe a bit of a debt to our Canadian neighbors for some of the better type dogs in the early years, as their closer ties to the UK did allow some of those early fanciers to import better dogs from the best of kennels.

Just like today, there has always been a lot of diversity in the breed. Some of the early US dogs were strictly "field" style, some were like the show stock in England. After years of studying the books with photos of the early bench and/or dual champions in the UK, however, I didn't find any that resembled the dogs I see in the ring today in this country.

Crap, it's her again...

Who's the her we's talking about here or did I miss something?

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This thread too?????