I have some serious questions. Are there lines that do not have ANY allergy issues? How inherited are they? Is it possible to get puppies without allergies from a parent that does have allergies if bred to a dog that does not have allergies? Or once it is in the line, will all offspring have allergies to some degree?

I have had several dogs that did not have allergies. But I have had an equal number that have. Some are dogs that I brought in from outside and some I bred. It is pretty difficult to scrap them after they have passed every other clearance and won titles. What do other breeders do? Do you remove dogs that have allergies, even mild ones from your breeding program?

I have bred my girls that didn't have allergies to outside stud dogs and then gotten a bunch of pups with allergies- and a bunch of troubled pet owners.

I have asked the stud owners about allergies beforehand and been told that the stud does not have allergies. Then later, I may find out that what they consider allergies and what I consider allergies are two different things. I am not blaming the stud dog, I am just trying to figure out how to avoid allergies.

Am I wrong to think that a dog that gets regular ear infections, especially due to yeast, has allergies? I think dogs that get hot spots seasonally or lick granulomas probably have allergies. I think dogs that lick their feet and scratch their chins definitely have allergies.

How big of a problem are allergies in the breed? How many of you have lines that have never had anything, not even an ear infection? I have had 4 labs total like that and 3 of them were back yard bred.


I think this is a problem that goes under the radar a lot and am just wondering how widespread allergies are getting in our gene pool.

Please, correct me if I am wrong.....because if I am, I'd love to find some lines that have zero allergies!

Well, I would not find it difficult to not breed a nice girl because she has allergies, other clearances or not.

I keep 1 or possibly 2 puppies from each litter, the other 5-8 go into pet homes. Its my responsibility to them to provide them with a dog who isn't going to be bothered by such things, and so I do my best to do so.

Allergies are amongst the first thing I find out about a stud dog. Any food intolerances (I don't care if he eats Dog Chow so long as he's not bothered by it) and how many ear infections has he had and what the owner knows about parentage.

Watch at the Potomac the yellow classes and see how prevalent allergies are in Labradors. The pink feet etc are dead give aways.

And if allergies can be traced back to environmental factors, how can you breed that out or even plan for it???? One of our girls (now 14) had ear infections off & on for the 1st two years of her life and since then has only had 2! Our youngest boy is 2.5 and has had ear infections but that's due to a very small ear canal that's hard to get complete dry after he's romping in water, etc. Good luck - allergies are a pain!

Talk to a holistic vet, many of the things you're mentioning as allergies could simply be related to food, VACCINES, household products...too much bathing, hard to know what pet folks do. If a dog is prone to yeast issues, I'd move it to a raw or grain free diet, and before someone says it's too expensive or difficult, realize it's a lot cheaper than multiple visits to a vet and there are many pre-packaged frozen raw diets that make it very convenient to feed.
Good Luck

Pink feet? You mean the pads?

Well, if there are a bunch of dogs at Potomac that have obvious allergies, then I have to guess that it is a pretty widespread problem in the breed.

One of the first stud dogs I used when I was a green novice belonged to a well known stud owner. He had lots of dark discoloring around his feet. When I asked about it I was told that's just the way they were and she brushed it off without a second thought. I wish I had known more then.

I have a field bred girl who has show lines two generations back. She has no allergies at all

Are allergies more prevalent in show lines?

Also, it's very tough to bring in new dogs from another kennel. In order to try to move on without allergies, I have to do that and in trying to, I've washed out 5 bitches and 2 dogs from other breeders because of other problems-hips, elbows, more allergies, ugly structure, ugly temperaments...

My first lab was what some would consider BYB (though her pedigree was good and both parents had all cert's-just that they did not show and owned both parents)
Anyhow-that girl was so healthy-I NEVER once cleaned an ear and she ate Science diet, yes with corn, her whole life. I never had a vet visit except for shots which, yes she did get every year until the age of 8 when Dr. Dodds started talking about changing the schedule.
I purchased my new girl from a well know breeder-wonderful pedigree, parents CH or pointed. When I went to pick up the pup I noticed mom was itching and her ears were red and inflammed, I questioned it. I was told it was due to the litter she just had and that she was on L&R food. Pup was 8 weeks, deposit was non refundable and I trusted this breeder.
My pup has been bothered by gunky ears since I brought her home, she scratches and bites (but no hot spots-she is now 2yrs) I have had her on PP C&R. PP L&R Eagle Pack Holisitc, and now we are trying PP SS&S.
OP you are right to question this-I don't think most allergies are food, environment, etc-I saw this in the mom and from 8 weeks on in the pup. These girls or boys should not be bred-it is not fair first to the dog who now cringes everytime they see an ear cleaner coming their way, nor to the families who watch them suffer. However-"not throwing the baby out with the bath water" has contributed to many issues, including the ever argued "seizures" that are "not epil" but could be "anything", increased ACL tears, etc. Breeders need to take their heads out of the sand and the skeletons out of the closet. Until then all these issues will continue to thrive in the breed under the categories of " outside contributing factors" rather than genetic pre-dispositions.

Yes, allergies, whether it be food or environmental is most definatley inherited. Once it gets in your lines, it is difficult to get rid of. I had to start all over with new breeding stock due to allergy problems. I am currently growing out a young girl bought from another breeder who has had on going yeast infections starting from a puppy. She doesn't scratch herself or have hot spots but the gunky ears is not fun and I can't imagine it would be fun for families to have to be constantly flushing and cleaning out their ears. I found a new flush that I really like so between that and switching her over to a pricy kibble with no grains in it, she is doing much better on the yeast production.

We also had a now deceased labrador who had horrible seasonal allergies, hot spots, gunky ears and she ended up passing it on to all of her babies with the one litter she had. This was before I realized she even had allergy issues at 2.5 yrs old.

Since then, we have gone through countless different lines that ended up with allergy issues.

I would say at the very least, don't breed an affected allergy bitch or stud dog and then see how much is produced in the litters and keep very careful track of all the pups going into pet homes.

I started over with new yellow lines 5 years ago and so far knock on wood, we have only had 1 puppy who ended up with itch skin and hot spots. I'm not sure why this one puppy was affected but for one puppy out of 4 litters produced out of these lines so far, I count our blessings.

can you share the name of the ear flush and kibble so I can try them?

out of the 10+ dogs we have none have what I would consider allergies. An occasional ear infection or hot spot over the hot summer but otherwise no coat issues at all. They spend lots of time out in the grass and sand box, I bath once every 2 months at the most. They eat Proplan and receive Nuvet daily.

yet pups sold into pet home complain of allergy issues. usually narrow down to food or something in the house or way to many baths with topical treatments that dry the coat out even more.

I even took one 5 year old male back that had skin like an elephant, no hair on 75% of his body and was on allergy shots.....it was a long struggle but he is good as new.
moved him over to a raw food diet with Nuvet. Once he was on the right track moved him to PP Salmon. He is 99% better with way to much coat. Only issue we have not been able to completely clear up is a ear issue. but vet says there is so much scaring from past infections that it probably will never be 100%

I tend to believe that MOST allergies are environmentally caused. As long as my foundation stock stays clear then I dont consider it genetic in my lines.

I always recomend nuvet to people with dogs. i had a dog with allergies and put him on them recomended by a friend and he was tons better after about a month. Also had my parents give the joint one they make to their older dog that was getting stiff and slow and it help her alot.

Has anyone been able to breed away from allergies? Experienced said it's difficult to get away from once in your lines....is it possible....at all?

I mean, I know of one widely used stud whose sire had bad allergies. I have talked to people who have dogs 2-4 generations down from this dog that claim they have no allergies. These are people I trust and I can see nothing external on the dogs in question.

So, if it IS possible, is it luck or is it breeding generation after generation to non-allergy affected dogs?

What is Nuvet?

I don't believe that all ear infections or hot spots are from allergies.

I do. So does my vet. My allergy free dogs have never had hotspots and never had one ear infection...never even had to clean their ears. Even if the dog is not extremely prone to allergies, a hot spot or ear infection is an allergic reaction.


"I don't believe that all ear infections or hot spots are from allergies."

"really", it's time to get another vet if they believe that all hotspots and ear infections are allergies, they are not. Chronic hotspots and chronic ear infections maybe.

Are ya'll seeing allergies in mostly yellows?

I think they are sure easier to see in yellows. But know of several that were black. You can't see stained feet, but they are red if you look between the toes. The blacks tended to do more itching and breaking out in the loin, belly, underarms and ears than foot licking though....the yellows were bad foot lickers.

We are in the yellow pollen season in Mississippi and I have allergies. Snort, snort, sniffle, sniffle, sneeze. Good thing I was never able to have children, I guess - LOL. I am getting a new black lab baby this weekend though!

Labs, I TOTALLY agree with everything you have said as I have experienced this myself numerous times.
My own dogs, never a skin problem, maybe an occasional gunky ear but yet a few pets homes and even one so called "show home" complained of "allergies"!
I saw the dog in the "show home" on numerous occasions and whatever the owners were calling allergies, I saw nothing at all!
I think some of these people think if a dog scratches his ear, it's got to be allergies and they freak out!
In reality, it's just an ITCH!
People get itches don't they?
Are they allergies everytime? Of course not!
I do think the overbathing is a huge contributor as well.
I just don't understand why some people think these dogs need baths every week!
I try to explain that they are washing out the natural oils a Labrador is SUPPOSED to have and drying their skin so of course they are going to be itchy! Sheesh!!
As for the ears, it can be a matter of opinion on that one too.
Ears get dirt and wax. It's a fact of life.
But to some, if they see a speck of anything in there, it's automatically something wrong with the dog!
It's upsetting at times to hear these things but all I can do educate, educate, educate!
If they listen or not is their decision

I did have a puppy buyer call to say his dog as did his previous dog had allergies. In discussing the problem with him, I discovered that they were swimming every day in a pond on his property and had, what I call, pond itch. The irritation was down the dog's back. Once the owner started hosing the dog down after his swim and drying him off, the pond itch disappeared.

Yet, I have had my own dogs who have developed real allergies. Both girls had a lot of ear infections as babies. Both scratched themselves to death. Both were spayed and placed. They did a lot better after they were spayed. One family just uses antihistamines during the high pollen season; the other gives their dog shots that are very effective.

Is the tendency to develop allergies inherited? Yes.
Labs are quite prone to them. I seemed to remember reading that 20-25% of puppies from clear parents will develop allergies.

I think you are all fooling yourselves if you do not think that many issues, including allergies have a genetic predisposition. You can take the soundest dog and let that pup grow up running and jumping and he will be fine-the same dog with a genetic predispostiton to HD or ED will start to limp or show signs and problably become afflicted. A dog who is not allergy prone can be raised on any food, in any household with cleaners, vaccines ,etc and be just FINE-like many of the mutts running around. Breeders are not being honest with themselves or their clients-same runs true for TVD lines, epil. lines etc.
30 yrs ago when I worked at a vets office there were hardly any dogs coming in with "allergies" and the rare ones that did were chronically affected. There were a few basic foods on the market-not like the numerous choices today-Purina dog chow, canned Alpo, etc. Let's be honest with each other-it is the only way the issues will start to disappear. How is a lab supposed to work in the field if he can't even walk on his sore feet or swim if every time he does his ears get infected and his skin gets irritated.

Malaseb Medicated Ear Flush. I buy mine at Revival online store.

As for the kibble, I had put her on the same kibble her breeder feeds her dogs for 4 or 5 months, still gunky ears. Then I switched her to Wellness Core, low fat but high protein, no grains. She needed to lose a few pounds, hence the low fat kibble for now. I also love the Wellness Core Ocean Formula for dogs with dry skin or allergies to food.

I really do think over years breeders have bred themselves into a corner with food sensativities and environmental allergies. I know no dog is perfect and no pedigree is perfect but these allergies need to be worked on to irradicate it from our breed.

Sure Labs will get the occasional hot spot or ear infection but you have to consider how often and to what degree and be honest with yourself when deciding to use a certain dog in your breeding program. When a bitch owner, stud dog owner or pet person is asking you if you have allergies in your lines, your idea of allergies might be a different defintion than what they consider to be allergies. I think this may be some of the problem is what breeders define as true allergies.

I'm sharing this with nothing to gain. Only giving my experience.
Everytime someone calls me with a lab or pup with allergies, as soon as I swith them to the Flint River Ranch Trout and Sweet Potato food, it goes away.
I swear, its all diet. Not genetics. Now I'm going by dozens and dozens of examples, not my own lab either, just people I talk to all over the country

30 years ago when I used to feed my dogs home made food, allergies were never heard of.
Out of the probably 20+ labs I've owned, only one has allergies.
I do feed dry dog food now, but try not to switch around. Of course after PP C&R disappeared, I've switched several times. I hope I don't open a can of worms.
I find that Buffalo blue makes a difference in my allergic Lab girl, as well as im my super allergic Shar Pei girl.

I agree Experienced. But like another poster suggested, have we boxed ourselves into a corner? How do we get out when apparently so few lines are allergy free nowadays?

Maybe this could be information that people begin putting on their websites or ads.
CH No Itchin'-No Bitchin'MH
OFA, CERF, Optigen normal & "Allergy Free"

That doesn't make sense to me though. If a group of dogs in the same kennel are all on the same diet and only half have allergies, what is the reason??

We've had allergies in all 3 colors and in completely different labrador lines. I know the difference between allergies and plain old itching or swimmers ear due to too much bathing or swimming.

I'm not saying there's not a predisposition to true allergies, but I think a lot of the dirty ears and seasonal type stuff has a lot to do with diet and environment. Look at kids, how many of you remember growing up with virtually all of your friends with asthma or allergies to peanuts or latex? My holistic vet said most of what she sees are skin issues and most resolve with a change in diet, she also firmly believes it's something being done in animal husbandry that leads to so many of these issue, and I'm not talking just Labs, mix breeds too.

What does animal husbandry have to do with mixed breeds?

For causes look to excessive use of antibiotics, vaccinations for everything under the sun even for those individuals not at risk and over supplementation to boost the immune system.

I have heard from more vets that a high percentage of allergies in dogs are from environment, not food. About the same time I started using the new ear flush, I also changed my girl's dig to the Wellness Core so I'm not sure if her yeasty ears are from the food or she just needed a better ear flush all along.

I still remember my now deceased allergy prone girl's first litter. I had a couple families whose last dog suffered allergies their entire life. Their dogs died and were looking for a replacement puppy but they were trying to do their homework with due diligence and asking me if my lines had allergies. All I knew was that what was our then foundation girl had showed no signs of allergies other than she had a giant hot spot on her neck when she was a youngster. No ear problems, no itching etc.
So I assure them that our girl who has this seemingly healthy litter in the whelping box has showed no signs of allergies. Wouldn't you know it, as soon as the puppies are heading on 7 weeks old, our foundation girl breaks out in these hot spots and gunky ears. I just thought it was from hormones, nursing etc.
Over the next year, I am contacting all the owners to see how their pups are doing and one by one they are describing how they had to take their young dogs to the dermatologist due to severe allergies. All 7 puppies had allergies, including the little girl we kept for a year.

The thing is, many famiiles who adopt your puppies may not contact you if something is wrong with their puppy. I don't know why that happens but I found out alot of things about our 2006 litter that I would not have discovered had I not done a health survey on my 10 puppy litter this past summer. One had bad hot spots and itching, another dog tore her cruciate recently, though they let her get very obese, another dog had been seizuring for a year and this family kept meaning to contact me but they would get busy with their lives and forget.
So you see, many breeders may not know the extent of what they are producing unless every single puppy owner is keeping in contact with them.
One lady told me this past summer that their boy had been getting hot spots and itching like crazy. I asked her how come she didn't call me or email me about this problem. Because both her husband and her had owned labradors before they got married, they assumed that the allergies was part of the breed. Both their labradors they had when they were younger had bad itching and gunky ears.
I told her it is not normal but unfortunately, because of breeders continueing to breed from dogs who have perpetual hot spots, gunky ears, runny eyes, this type of health problem will continue to be normal for our breed.
Another thing to keep in mind is that our pet families sometimes don't brush their dogs on a regular basis. This lady whose young dog started itching and getting hot spots told me that they never brush their dog. I explained to her that regular brushing stimulates the oil glands and it helps to get rid of all that seasonal coat so their skin can breath better. They will have less hot spots when it is humid out etc.
Another couple who bought their first puppy from me last summer contacted me about some bad dander in their black youngster. I asked her if she had been brushing her dog on a regular basis and she said no and that she gives their boy a weekly bath because of all the 4 wheeling they do.
Once I told her not to over bath her dog and to spray him down with listerine and water solution and towel dry then brush him good every day with a slick brush to get those oil glands working, she has good news to report to me !!!! No more dander and smelly dog

I don't understand your question, she feels dogs and cats immune systems are being affected by over-vaccination, diet, topicals and everything else. I guess I'm trying to say less is more.

So how much does it cost to feed the Flint River kibble to,,,, say a brood of 10 Labrador adult dogs ?
This is if you are feeding the normal amount of 2.5 to 3 cups per dog a day.

I teach Immunology at the college level, so, although I am not an expert, I have read the definitive textbook (Janeway) very carefully several times and try to keep up with the literature. Allergies are reactions to things in the environment, in fact over-reactions, where the immune system is responding to harmless, often ubiquitous, substances to create an inflammation that would be useful to fight a harmful infectious agent and get rid of it. But since the agent is a commonplace part of the environment, it is never gotten rid of. So obviously allergies are due to environmental factors such as food, pollen, etc. If the environmental agent can be identified and removed, the allergy also disappears. That said, they depend on proteins that are expressed in the cells of the immune system called MHC proteins, and individuals differ widely in the types of MHC proteins they express due to their genetics. In humans, some combinations of MHCs do predispose people to allergies to certain things and to more severe reactions. So allergies are due to a combination of environmental and genetic factors.

Allergies are on the increase in humans, too, and there is great concern about this among immunologists. One of the hypotheses with the widest following is that we have more allergies because we are cleaner and more protected against challenges to our immune system during the time that it is maturing- early childhood. The immune system, goes this hypothesis, does not encounter the right kinds of enviromental factors to shift it away from the developmental pathways that lead to allergies. An alternative hypothesis, that we encounter more artificial man-made substances that our immune system must respond to, is not supported by the evidence.

So the carefully raised puppies (and children), kept in a germ-free, parasite-free environment may, indeed be more prone to allergies than the pup raised in a more "natural" environment. Also, you might sell a puppy to people who, with the best of intentions, provide it with an environment that stimulate its allergies. And certain lines may be more prone to allergies in general because of the MHC proteins they express on their cells.

I have a boy who gets hot spots. It started out once a year in June, and this year he got one on his neck in Jan. Costs me $130 or more depending on whether he will let us trim the hairs around it or whether the vet has to put him to sleep to do it, every time I take him in. I have decided to switch his food from nutro natural choice to blue buffaloe to try to stop this problem. What does the listerine and water do, and how much listerine to how much water? By the way he has had only 1 yeast infection in his life, he is 5.

The main reason I can think of why hot spots would be related to allergies is that the dog scratches himself and creates a break in the skin that then becomes infected. I haven't had many hot spots on my dogs, but usually it has been because there is a break in the skin that bacteria enter. In a heavy coated dog, if there is moisture present, and the wrong kind of bacteria get in, then they can invade the tissue through the break in the skin and set up housekeeping. I had a real case last summer because one of my dogs was allowing a puppy to bite her neck with her very sharp puppy teeth. Moisture + breaks in the skin + bacteria = hot spots. I stopped the biting, treated by clipping the hair and applying antibiotic cream, and no more hot spots. Seems to me that unless the dog is scratching, hot spots would be related to a compromised immune system, not an overactive one. Climate probably plays a big role, too.

The listerine is just to help the dog smell better, not to cure a hot spot. I use the old fashioned gold listerine and mix it half and half with water in a spray bottle. If you have a choco or black dog, by spraying them with this listerine concoction, it helps the dander to.

Thanks for the listerine info, I was using vinegar and water spray for cleanup before letting them in the house every afternoon, I will try vinegar & water to see which one I prefer. He is a yellow, no dander, just that hot spot, we live in the south, it probably has a lot to do with weather and humidity. If feeding him a more holistic food and regular grooming does'nt help, I will assume it is the weather, although my girl has never had a hot spot.

i think original poster needs to define allergy's ashe sees them.some people call allergy's conditions developed from improper food for the dog. we all i think agree that different food works for different breeds, yeast not allergy this is a condition caused not necessarily allergy.

sorry I don't buy it most allergies or so called allergies aren't anything but conditions. any symptoms caused by envirerment is more a condition and almost every dog over a period of time can develope similar symptoms.....we all commonly call them allergies this is a very general term used to explain many things and in my opinion not a very big deal in most cases. find the source and remove it , simple as that. way to much being called allergies which are nothing.

Speaking of the pink feet, I have never seen pink feet, what I have seen is reddish brown looking color between toes, and under their jaws. I never assumed that was allergies, because I never saw them scratch or lick their feet, my boy has a little red around his mouth but not his feet. Seems like someone told me a while back to dip feet in a bleach/water solution, and that would cure the red feet. Maybe it is a fungus or something, but I thought bleach would hurt them, so I never did anything.

well here is some info for those who think ear infections and hot spots are all allergies that is bunk.....a dog that has been shampooed if soap does not get removed even just alittle it can cause a hotspot, secondly a dog swimming getting ears wet and not being dried can cause ear problems these are facts that apparently a generalized statement from you and your vet is just not true

this thread is silly....do you not know that any dog can have an allergy.......ANY DOG!!!! and that it may never mainifest itself

The fact is, we do not know for sure if hot spots and ear infections are allergies, i have been told by vets that it could be all related. My dogs hardly ever swim, we do a lot of land retrieving, I don't get down to the water enough, and I bathe them probably once every 10 weeks. So, what is causing the ear infections and hot spots for them. I do live in the south, perhaps that's part of the hot spot problem. Wish we really definely knew for sure!

true, even a rabbit could have a hop spot, but I would hate to pass on an allergy and have other people deal with what I have been dealing with. Wish I knew for sure.......................

I agree with Genesis, this thread is silly!
It's very amusing to me that I have had Labs for over 15 years and never once had a dog that lived with me with any true allergy! I have had many go through here too. Show prospect washouts, keepers and retired dogs. So it's not just one or two pets I'm talking about.
I have had an occasional hot spot or icky ears, yes. Allergies, never!
No a skin problems here!
Our dogs do not get bathed unless going to a show and they need it.
They swim, they go out in the rain, they play in the mud.
All healthy and itch free

I bought a puppy from a good reputable breeder as a pet. The puppy was a mess from about 6 months onward. Chewing feet, constantly inflammed ears pulling out fur. We feed raw, and have never had any allergic problems at all. I have 6 dogs total, 5 of my breeding and this otherwise really lovely chocolate girl.

They all swim the ponds, they all run the fields, they all lay on the grass, and sleep on the linoleum. Why does just this ONE girl have a problem? I've never had to clean ears in my other dogs. Never a problem with ear infections that NEVER go away.

So yes, IMO and I am no expert, allergies are inherited. Who wants a dog who is constantly sick? I didn't! Imagine the frustration of a pet owner with a sickly dog. The extra $$$ trying to get rid of this infection.

This girl was spayed and the breeder had a coniption.

i agree with xyz, if we cannot take care of a problem, you know pet owners will not. I will never breed my boy with the hot spots, I don't care what vets and breeders say. I cannot take the chance! This thread is not ridiculous, we obviously have all had these problems. The issue is rather it is allergies are not, we need to be careful breeding to dogs with expensive vet bill problems. It is just like hips and everything else, you cannot guarantee anything, but you sure don't take a chance with clearances, so we should not take a chance with other reoccuring problems.

xyz, why would a breeder such as yourself buy a pet from another breeder???

very good question breeder, makes no sence to me

Skip the corn, soy and wheat. Then see if you have allergies. These things CAUSE the allergies and people keep feeding it, dog food companies keep putting it in the food. These things are cheap, profitable and no one cares if they make the dogs sick.
Years ago I had one girl ruin her ears and practically chewed her feet off until I met a holistic vet who showed me what was in my food and environment. I now spend a fraction of what I did on health care products, my dogs are super healthy, happy, fit and better looking to boot!

Regarding the hot spots - I have found that the dogs can swim almost every day and not get a hot spot. But, when I get out the hose and play, or when they get into my hose while filling the water buckets , on a very humid day -they can end up with hot spots. We also feed a food with 18% fat. I have heard that the more fat in the food, the more hot spots. Has anyone heard that?

I just think that the more coat they have - the more they are inclined to get hot spots. I have a few yellows with mediocre coats and if they do breakout with a spot - it's gone in a couple of days. The blacks with the really thick coats - the moisture gets trapped in the coat and makes the outbreak and they are tougher to treat .

But...that's what allergies are....a reaction to food or the environment. You may blame a change in the food and a change in the environment causing more allergies in our dogs, but if they have allergies, they carry a genetic predisposition to allergies.

Well...if you have never had this problem you are lucky. If you have, you would not be saying it is silly.

I have a 8 yr old female that as a puppy was allergic to any topical flea product. It took a few mos to figure out what was causing the itching & bumps. However, her whole life she has been a foot chewer & licker until recently when we changed from ProPlan (fed to her her whole life) to Innova. For the first time in her life her feet are beautiful, no more foot chewing. Her mother was a field bred MH, father a show Ch/MH. Go figure.

I buy in large quantity (goes down in price per pound the more you buy). 520 lbs at a time. Its about $600
So do the math for the number of dogs you have and the amount you feed.
Oh, and by the way, you feed less of the FRR so you save that way too.

Those of you that commented that this topic is silly are the reason I wish I had just gotten a dog from a shelter. Or better yet from a back yard breeder. At least then I could blame the allergies on the persons ignorance about breeding healthy dogs.

Unfortunately my dogs came from well respected breeders who are obviously in denial that there is a problem in their lines. When I initally wrote to find out how I might help my dogs the breeder offered no advice or concern.

Breeders might do all clearances on elbows hips and eyes. Stuff that can be put on paper. I think the majority of them are not that interested in the health and wellbeing of the breed to remove a show winning allergy prone dog from their breeding program.

After spending years telling friends to make sure they get a dog from a reputable breeder I am beginning to think that some breeders are doing their fair share of damage to this wonderful breed. Now I don't offer any advise on this subject.

Kudos to you breeders that admit there is a problem and are facing it head on! You guys are the greatest and I hope that one day I can get one of you wonderful happy, itchfree babies.

Re: Re: Allergies

Those of you that commented that this topic is silly are the reason I wish I had just gotten a dog from a shelter. Or better yet from a back yard breeder. At least then I could blame the allergies on the persons ignorance about breeding healthy dogs.

Unfortunately my dogs came from well respected breeders who are obviously in denial that there is a problem in their lines. When I initally wrote to find out how I might help my dogs the breeder offered no advice or concern.

Breeders might do all clearances on elbows hips and eyes. Stuff that can be put on paper. I think the majority of them are not that interested in the health and wellbeing of the breed to remove a show winning allergy prone dog from their breeding program.

After spending years telling friends to make sure they get a dog from a reputable breeder I am beginning to think that some breeders are doing their fair share of damage to this wonderful breed. Now I don't offer any advise on this subject.

Kudos to you breeders that admit there is a problem and are facing it head on! You guys are the greatest and I hope that one day I can get one of you wonderful happy, itchfree babies.

I agree with you. I have a girl - champion, has produced champions, but after her second litter she had a major allergic "incident" and I've had trouble with her ever since. Before that she'd have one pinkish (not bad) foot after she was about 3 years old. I have made the painful decision to spay her and not breed her again as I don't want to pass these issues on "knowingly" - her 2 litters were produced before the issues were apparent. FWIW - I've seen recent pictures of her dad, who is a big-winning, often-used stud dog I'm sure you've all heard of. He's got pink feet, so I know where this is coming from - this girl's mom never had an issue (and she was yellow too).

It's a bad issue to deal with and I hope to continue on with my other line who hasn't shown any indication of allergic problems over 4 generations.

Sorry, it should have read 'who ended up a pet' (not 'just' a pet, but a beloved pet in any realm.

I love her too much to let her go, and all my dogs remain here for life. I just wish I could provide Gracie with some relief.

I'd liken allergies to temperament problems. Something you can't certify with a piece of paper, so it goes untested and ignored by many.

It makes sense to me that longer or fuller coated dogs would have more problems with hot spots. The hot spot would go un-noticed at first and have more fur for the gook to build up on and for the bacteria to grow on. However, I doubt that longer or fuller coats cause more to begin with. In fact, I would think that a thicker coat would result in less abrasions and therefore would minimize hot spots.

The initial cause of the hot spot is the concern. There is no doubt in my mind that there are many causes of hot spots and ear infections, but that allergies are a major contributor, especially with re-occurring problems. As written above, since there is no formal clearance, people blow these issues off and the breed has clearly suffered. This is a problem.

I think I have read above that many people are claiming hot spots and ear infections are environmental or food related and are therefore not allergies of genetic origin.

Many genetic conditions need an environmental (including food) factor to trigger them. I am not a geneticist but I have read that more and more scientists are realizing that genetics and environmental influences are strongly linked together.

If you feed a really good food and your dogs are fine, but you sell pups to people who feed different food and are having problems, YOUR DOGS HAVE A GENETIC PROBLEM that they are passing on. In this case, the solution is easy and therefore the problem is not as bad as it could be, but please stop denying the issue.

The word allergy is being thrown around here and the scientists may have a more formal definition of what constitutes a true allergy, but whatever you call it (insensitivity, skin condition, etc.), they are all related genetic problems that sincere and dedicated breeders need to be aware of.

Finally, not all hot-spots and ear infections have genetic origins. It is hard to tell which ones are genetic problems and which aren't. Please stop using this to avoid confronting the issue. The lack of a clear explanation does not excuse you from being open and honest. We must all try to eradicate the spread of a growing problem from our breed.

have a girl who had constant ear problems, at 1.5 yo I decided to feed BARF which is a raw diet.... I have not been to the vet since for ear infections and her coat looks great .... this works for her
.... I'm not a vet or genetics professor....

ooopss she now 2.7 mos old

That's great newbie. But when I breed two dogs, I want to know that they are truly wash and wear and absolutely FEED dogs. I feed my dogs Pro Plan C&R, and I'm happy with that. No special diets. Its a rule I have here.

Special diets are hiding something. There's a reason for them IMO only of course.

Good point.... I respect your opinion
It's just what works for her .... Thanks

There are two important sub-threats going on here.

1) Many of the conditions described above are genetic in origin. These conditions are becoming an increasing problem in our breed.

2) If you have a dog with one of these conditions, changing diets often helps.

My observation is that if a change of diet helps a dog, this should NOT be construed as evidence that the problem is not genetic. All you have done is identified the environmental factor (particular food) that was triggering the genetic predisposition.

oops........obviously, I meant sub-threads

Finally, I am not sure that having corn gluten as the primary source of protein is ever a good thing for dogs. I think it is fine to feed a dog a healthy diet even if that may have the unintended effect of covering up an allergy or other condition. I don't do anything fancy but I do avoid corn gluten and wheat. But I do realize that if my dogs have problems with these food, I may not know it.

But given that, even though I feed these good foods (reasonably priced ones), I have still had dogs with skin conditions. They were immediately removed from my breeding program. If I have a problem with a line, the line ends (period).