I just can't get my head around this.

A family had their Lab cloned in S.Korea and brought back to the US.

This pup is now 5 months and they are beginning to exhibit it with an AKC number,prefix is SN-----------

How would AKC register a cloned dog? DNA would confirm cloned, but starting out as a puppy again.

I am completely confused as to how this may play a future in the sport and registering. If it is actually competing on it's predecessors number, because it really is the "same dog".....oh, it is too much to figure out.

I am still working on progesterone testing! hahahahaha Can anyone get their head around this?

yes and what AKC shows allow 5 month old puppies to be shown??
Matches only ask for Names.

I would be very surprised if AKC registered clones. This is a big issue right now in the horse world, as there are about 20 clones and AQHA will not register them. Apparently there are problems in DNA parentage verification of clones' offspring. For example, one horse has been cloned six times, and when DNA-ing a baby, there is no way to determine which one of those six is the sire. So my guess is we don't need to worry about it in dogs for now. For more information check out the AQHA website, they have very detailed analysis of the issue. There have been articles about it in practically every issue of America's Horse this year.

I must say I find it very cool and fascinating. Charmayne James has a three-year old clone of her ten-times world champion barrel racing gelding, Scamper, who is still around at 31 years old. "Clayton" is standing at stud this year for $4,000. (www.breedtoclayton.com) Won't take her long to earn back her $150,000 cloning fee!. :)

You are right Ritva! P.S. The same people are cloning Rigger by the way...

A clone does not share 100% of the same DNA as it's predecessor therefore it is NOT the "same" animal. It does share a very high percentage (~95%). An identical twin is basically the same as a clone - they are obviously more naturally conceived however you can view clones in the same manner - they are very alike but differences in their environment and in their "soul" if you will make them different from the animal they were cloned from - they are unique individuals.

I feel AKC should register these animals as individuals.

I understand the parentage issue - not sure how to address that.

Wow! That horse definitely shows you that clones are NOT identical. The owner claims "Their DNA/genetics are an identical match." If you watch her slideshow you will notice that Scamper and Clayton have different markings. It is very obvious. How is that identical?

Are there differences in life expectancy in these individuals than the parent they are cloned from? Other issues? Haven't done my homework on this topic. Pretty amazing though.

Replying to: This pup is now 5 months and they are beginning to exhibit it with an AKC number,prefix is SN-----------

What I would like to know is if this pup is only 5 months old how does the OP know it is registered with the AKC and know its registered number? This seems like it must be someone who knows these people or something in order to have this much information. Please explain?

Just think of all the possiblities if you have a dog that was neutered or sterile or even a bitch you could clone it and continue...I think for me what made that animal uniquely itself can never be replicated and the animal wouldn't be the same.

I have an article about one of the first bulls they cloned, his 1st cloned son was sterile but when they cloned the 1st cloned son that resulting bull was fertile, go figure!

The puppy was entered at the International shows here in Orlando Fl. this weekend. But the puppy was absent today. And Iam sure the reason was because of the AKC number. I feel it was an honest mistake on the owners part as I do not think they have ever shown a dog before.

I can understand your concern about having a clone in the breeding gene pool. If the AKC does decide to accept and register cloned dogs, they should put some type of identification in the registration number like "C" for clone so that people will be aware it is a clone. Just a suggestion.

Interesting topic. Several things come to mind.

1. I would think that the DNA sequence of a clone would be identical, but the epigenetic inheritance would be different. Epigenetics refers to changes in the DNA that are not related to the genetic sequence itself- chemical modifications to DNA that affect how it is packaged in the cell and that influence how genes are expressed. Epigenetic changes are known to occur as cells are differentiating and could affect gene expression in a clone, as presumably the nucleus used to produce a clone would come from a differentiated cell.

2. Someone mentioned life span. I know that Dolly the first cloned sheep did not have a long life span because the cloning process did not reset her "biological clock". Our germ cells have an enzyme called telomerase that manufactures ends for the chromosomes. Every time a cell replicates, the ends get a little shorter, but that doesn't matter in a normal human lifespan because we do not live long enough to run out of telomere. Germ cells make telomerase, so they can lengthen the ends of chromosomes when they divide and create an embryo with its "clock" reset. Telomerase is not expressed in most of our cells (and in fact, if a cell does gain the ability to make telomerase it is very likely to become cancerous), so if you were to take a nucleus from such a cell to clone a human being, they would be likely to start out with telomeres that are too short and not be able to lengthen them. Dolly was the same as people. Mice, on the other hand, have cells that continue to be able to make telomerase, presumably because they live a fairly short time and therefore don't need the safeguard against cancer. Dogs are more like sheep in lifespan, so maybe a clone would age faster. I guess we'll find out within the next decade!

3. And yes, current DNA tests would not tell you whether the parent was a clone or the original because they would test for the sequence of subunits in the DNA, not the chemical modifications that affect expression. But maybe such tests could be developed.

It may have been an honest mistake, however they do own labradors that they show at AKC events. Shame on them if they don't know the rules.

That is interesting as these people do own and show two Labradors. They know the rules. I am assuming if the puppy had an AKC #, then the # must have been issued by AKC. I don't think anyone would lie about something like that. Perhaps, though, they may have been wrongly advised by someone else.

It could be these people were mislead. There is plenty of falsification going on with exhibitors in the breed that anything is possible.

This is pathetic. The "SN" prefix for the registration seems odd for a 5 month old puppy. Did AKC allow them to use the registration number from the dog that this puppy was cloned from?? I haven't heard anything from AKC regarding cloned dogs - has anyone else heard what their position is?

maybe the thought since it was a clone they could use the original dogs number....my 10 year old male has a SN number

I love research and this is an interesting subject. This is what is reflected in the IABCA (International Show) catalog for this dog:

Retriever (Labrador) NAME: Sir Lancelot Encore REG #S: SN353128/08 SEX: Dog DOG SHOW CLASS: Jungsten ADD'L CLASSES:
(I will leave owners, breeders, sire and dam's names out).

When searching AKC, there is no dog registered with that number. However, when searching the litter number, it comes back to a Golden Retriever litter born April 4th, 1996. Only puppies #2 & #4 were registered.

This is indeed very strange. However, there could be a numerical error in the IABCA catalog on the registration number for this dog. If not, then it's just plain dumb to do something like this as I'm sure if brought up to AKC it could result in serious repercussions for these people.

Who really cares and what does it really matter to you to be doing so much research. The AKC is now allowing mixed breeds, mutts and mongrels to compete at dog shows....for your information, that's dogs who no one knows who the parents are, that will include strays, feral dogs, 2 headed dogs, wolves, dingos and any thing that resemebles a dog. You think they care about dogs being entered at those small fry, little league shows? Get real

i just found out there will be mixed breeds at dogs shows what next cats and birds

This is fascinating. The derby winner we've been discussing may come into play here.

Peekaboo, or shoud I say Peekaboo-boo:
Your reply to "Research" was that of a truly ignorant person.
The AKC acceptance of mixed breeds does not extend to conformation shows and breeding. And yes, misrepresentation of AKC information in any venue is cause for disciplinary action.

They probably used an old akc number from some other dog. What does it matter someone posted that they did not even show the pup? Besides these International shows don't count for anything. You can register a mixed breed and show it and they would award the dog a title. IMO it is all a big money making scheme. Exhibitors show dogs at these shows and the UKC shows that are not good enough to make it in the AKC so they can have some title on their dog.

What assumptions? The facts are the dogs that are shown at these venues are dogs of lesser quality. If it were not so the same percentage of internation titled dogs would also be akc titled dogs or at least be akc pointed. Stop blowing smoke because a dog who can get an international championship title is the same dog that would never win a single point in the akc.

I ve also seen well bred dogs not get the ch at IABCA shows

How do you know they are well bred, did you look in their mouth, did put your hands on them or did someone tell you they are well bred? What is your definition of well bred dog?

We should ALL care if people are using an AKC registration number incorrectly. Obviously, if this is really a registration # for a litter of goldens, there is an issue. Additionally, they entered the pup as an AKC registered dog - obviously not true. Maybe someone who was at the show would know if the pup was shown one day. It appears from a previous post that he was shown one day and absent the next. And to clarify, I happen to own 4 AKC champions that also hold International titles. It happens to be a fun venue for me to show my own dogs & get a nice written critique.

you can say that again!

Peekaboo

Who really cares and what does it really matter to you to be doing so much research. The AKC is now allowing mixed breeds, mutts and mongrels to compete at dog shows....for your information, that's dogs who no one knows who the parents are, that will include strays, feral dogs, 2 headed dogs, wolves, dingos and any thing that resemebles a dog. You think they care about dogs being entered at those small fry, little league shows? Get real

It wasn't even an AKC show! Why would AKC care!!

In reply to "I see you".

I have the strong suspicion that “Research" and “I see you” are one and the same;

Talk about ignorance; learn to spell before you spout off.

To “Research”
Shades of Watergate here people, to actually go and do research on the AKC data base for old registration numbers!! WHAT!!!!!! What are you, in training for the new age Gestapo or maybe you are a leftover from BIG BROTHER!!!!!
Why don’t you go lurk around the PETA and HSUS and pull up some real nasty stuff on them, they are responsible for thousands of dogs being put down each year and of great importance to many on this forum, they are the ones pushing all the anti-dog ownership legislation across the country. Put your paranoia and OCD to better use.

The International people don't really care about following up on any of the dogs registered there, all they care about is the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!!! Now that the AKC is hurting for money, they will let mongrels and strays compete in all of their events except conformation, plus to make more money they are enacting the Dog Tax Rule. Each and every dog that is entered at an AKC dog show will have to pay a $25 Dog Show Tax.
It is all about the money people!!!!!!!

perhaps you should actually look at the dogs who show
at UKC before you comment; dogs with AKC championships are on the top 10 competing in UKC as well

Wrong again, Peekabooby!
Geez, I denote repressed anger in your reply...or maybe not so repressed. I suggest that you take your $25 (before the AKC taxes you) and buy yourself a good bottle of wine and just chug it. You truly need it.
Can you spell A-N-G-E-R M-A-N-A-G-E-M-E-N-T?