Thought I start a new thread:

How many of you have Shown a miskmarked dog or bitch?
When I say mismark, not talking about a little white on the chest.... talking real mismarks... whether they are noticeable or not...
If you have, have you received a CH? BISS?
If you go to breed this mismark ... do you get the sire & dam DNA'd for K locus to make sure that they do not throw a mismark or do you just take your chances?
Thanks!

I had an English import years ago with a white spot on her belly about the size of a baseball. She did some winning but didn't set the world on fire. Nobody saw the mismark unless I showed it to them....which I did of course....since I thought it was cool.

I bred her 3 times and had only one mismark. To me this issue is not that big of a deal when the occurence is very rare. If I started producing a bunch of it then it would probably be a problem for me. There are so many other things that could go wrong that are far worse than a mismark so it just doesn't bother me.

But that is just me....respectfully.

I have to say that I am surprised about breeding mismarks or even showing one...and being casual about it...
With all the broo-ha-ha about structure, standards, etc I would think that this would be one of those things that would be taken into consideration... color coat.... Maureen, where are you.... can you give me your honest opinion... I'd LOVE to hear your comments on this!

I had a yellow boy with two small black spots on his side in my last litter. I sold him as a pet. I was told that those spots were an indication of good pigment and his is jet black. I kept his brother and his pigment is also very black and his skin is very dark all over.

I would have never considered showing or breeding him even though they looked like dirt spots that would not go away.

In the first thread there were no obvious "marks" so why couldn't it be shown???? I've seen labs (yes they WERE registered purebreds - DNA testing was done too) that produced brindling in a few pups. While we can test for most anything & everything, sometimes Mother Nature throws a curve ball out of nowhere!

Linda - I think it is great to solicit opinions from others but in the end don't forget you have to make your own decision about these types of things. When I started out I was very "black & white" about a lot of this. Eventually I realized there is no such thing as the "perfect" dog. Now that doesn't stop me from trying to make one but everything did come into perspective.

Look at it this way. Is a mismark any worse than a level bite (or slightly under), short upper arm, less than ideal pigment on a yellow, long back, cow hocks, low tail set, plain head, overdone head, open coat, too much coat, short on leg, short neck....you get the idea. Ultimately, the decision is yours on how a mismark fits into this list or your own list of potential aesthetic faults. The best any of us can do is give you our list. You will have to make your own.

And please know I am not trying to lecture you but be encouraging to formulate your own opinions. I get concerned sometimes that some of us try to bully others into their way of thinking.

Good luck.

I did show and breed my mismarked girl.
Finished her Ch easily, she was a BISS winner, and had three litters. Of her three litters, one puppy was bred later on. The rest were in pet homes. She was a spectacular girl in every way. I have no regrets.

thank you all for your comments and honest opinions!

I beg to differ, I would actually take a mismark any day over a short upper arm, or a bad bite. There is nothing 'wrong' with these dogs, save for a little cosmetic issue.

We're not breeding speckled Labradors in the general population so something, probably Mother Nature, is taking care of the rest. All comes out in the wash.

To whatever,

Whatever!

Thanks!

To linda - "new person"

I suspect you are not a "new person" I suspect you are a fraud... a troll. Your comments and even your question smack of someone trying to cause a fight.

I have seen white on a black shown and bred without a problem.
Sometimes the "mismark" is just white hairs that have grown in after an injury.
I do have a friend who would love to show a yellow boy that has some black hairs on him and yes they grew in after a bite. He has sired two litters and they all were solid yellow.
Seems that more people would be agahast to see black on a yellow vs white on a black even though both resulted from an injury.
Not sure why?

Be aware however that mismarks can appear at the 6 or 8 months of age. The girl I had did just that. She was not a mismarked puppy. It appeared later. I agree I would rather have that than a bad topline or stuffy neck.

I had a yellow boy with a half dollar size black mark on his flank. Successfully shown with multiple points. I only placed him because I really don't like doing stud work. Great pigment!
I did see a VERY well bred chocolate that was ticked like a GSP, all the way up the legs. He also had large white patches. Freaked me out! Of course he was never shown.

I have a finished champion...yellow bitch...small black mark on her flank (show side)...finished easily with no issues and did not produce it. She has super dark pigment year round.

To the OP...honestly...this is small potatoes compared to some of the real issues that affect our breed. Hardly even worth the discussion. If you get hung up on these little things I would suggest you consider a different hobby rather than animal husbandry. These are living beings afterall. You are just setting yourself up for disappointment.

I have a mismarked girl that has 5 points (1 major). I didn't finish her because I only showed her lightly and didn't really enjoy showing. I got her to do hunt tests with, and she did indeed get her JH, SH, and MH titles, along with a CD. She is a yellow with a tiny black spot on the side of her nose (probably half the size of a pencil eraser). This girl was bred last year to a yellow stud dog and produced one mismarked puppy, and her mismark is a doozie! She is a yellow with a large splash that covers part of her shoulder and half of her chest. The puppy's conformation is great, but I obviously won't be showing her. It doesn't matter to me though, I intend to run hunt tests with this one too, so I expect to be the only person at the test with a "spotted labrador".

It's just a spot - not a defect. There are lots of structural or health problems that I would be very upset to have produced, producing a spot doesn't bother me in the least.

I thought it was all about "to better the breed"

How can you "better the breed" if you know that your dam is producing mismarks.... or "breeding" a mismark and taking your chances....

I thought it was about "loving" the labrador and not only making sure that you take care with their hips, elbows, eyes, optigen, cnm, eic (??), TVD, heart problems... isn't color also in there

Not trying to judge but soooooo many breeders come on and get on their soap boxes about "bettering the breed"

Many BYB's will not care and it's all about any of these problems, it's all about being greedy...!!!!

How can you NOT CARE?????? I can see if it's a slight mismark but wouldn't you CARE if you continue to breed mismarks! Makes no sense to me!

If you don't care about the betterment of the breed... then WHY are you breeding?????

Oh for crying out loud! Mismarks are VERY RARE and I highly doubt anyone would purposely breed for them that's trying to "better the breed"! JMO

It's nit picking like the comments from some of the answers to this question that keep new breeders from advancing. You have to look at the whole dog, weigh all the issues and sometimes take your chances. If you're not willing to do that, you're not going to get very far. I don't believe that anyone who admitted to breeding or showing a mismark said that the mismark was reproduced. I, myself, had a mismarked dog who never produced it in many, many litters nor did his kids or grandkids. There are so many things that can go wrong ... in the whelping box, in raising them, in training them, right on into doing their clearances. You have to be brave enough to make decisions that won't always be looked on positively by others but nonetheless are necessary in order to continue to improve your breeding stock. This is not a black and white sport. If you expect it to be, then you should think about another hobby .... because you will never find perfection, ever.

Good Morning folks:

Just saw the "Linda" and the "Wyatt" posters here and wanted to make it known that there is no connection between those names and mine. As always, I sign my name to my posts.

Linda Wyatt-deGroot