Litter #1
8 puppies, normal at birth.
2 weeks old and starting to move around, #8 puppy has some issues with movement and feet don't always land pads of feet down (often tipped to sides). Legs look bowed at times and feet become calloused on the sides because of the way they hit when walking. As puppy grows issue is more pronounced. Limited ability to get around and vet is stumped. Puppy euthenized at 3 months because there is obvious uncontrolled pain and the gait and legs are definately incorrect. We hoped it would correct but just got worse.

Litter # 2
Sire is the son of the bitch that whelped litter #1 but he is from a different litter then the one above.
9 puppies born, all normal.
3 weeks old and puppy is acting weird, we are thinking mom stepped on it and keep an eye to make sure she is okay. By 7 weeks it is apparent puppy is getting worse and can no longer walk. Several visits to the vet and nothing helps. X-rays show nothing. Puppy is euthenized when all efforts are exhausted. We are still thinking she must have been stepped on.

Litter #3
Same sire as litter #2
8 puppies born, all normal.
2 weeks later we see the same signs. This is the first time we finally put this together and realize that they have all been the same, normal at birth then showing orthopedic issues early on and eventual PTS with no hope of correcting. Vet has exhausted all of his resources and still can't explain what and why this is happening.

These litters occured over a 3 year period. Only 2 other litters born here and they are not related to the pedigree from above. All pups in those litters perfectly healthy with no issues.

We are obviously thinking this is a genetic factor.
any help from anyone out there on what this is.
Honestly it looks like a DJD but these puppies are so young. Legs are bowed out, puppy cannot walk properly and feet are never touching the floor as they should, always twisted, almost like twisting your ankle would be. There is a definate weekness in the muscles and the gait is always impish and awkward. Movement is choppy.

thoughts?

Did you check for Centronuclear Myopathy? It can have early onset, and is muscle wasting, improper development which would cause the walking problems and not show any orthopedic reasons for the inability to walk.

I would test the sire and the dams for CNM--if for no other reason than to rule that out.

MK

Are you sure these pups were not swimmers? I think you need to explain more about the "acting wired", I recently have a litter that all 4 pups were too heavy too soon and I had to hobble all of them around 3.5 weeks old, one of them was so bad that was hobbled for a long time. They grew correctly after this.

didn't the vets ever suggest necropsy so you would have a possible answer?

have you considered Dwarfism? Twisted front limbs,bowed out, etc........

That's what I was wondering. Swimmers have been shown to be genetic. Too bad if that's what it was.

That would be very sad if the Vet didn't know that they had swimmers and 3 pups were put down. I would think it's something else.

I have had swimmers and this does not sound like them at all.

http://www.tulgeywoodlabs.com/pages/Chance.html

Sorry you are going through this.
I am gonna go with CNM or Dwarfism.
Both can be tested for.
Let us know the outcome!

The problem with this little pup is that they let him go w/o attention for too long, with my swimmers I hobble rear together, front together and then a line between the front to the back, because the little suckers would find the way to sleep in their bellies if you don't do it this way. I know it looks like puppy torture, but in a couple of days they are walking and sleeping on their sides, and by the time they go home they are perfect, the one I kept a little longer with the hobble was very stubborn and keep chewing thru the masking tape, until I reinforced it. They were so flat than even their faces look flat or crooked, everything gets corrected when they start sleeping on their sides.

I totally believe that some vets don't even know about it. I talked with a friend of mine, he breed very little other breed, but he has some vet background and didn't know about it.

I would have all your dogs from that line tested for RD. My first suspect would be dwarfism. Did the vet suggest that? Did he tell you to take the pups to an ophthalmologist? If so, did you?

I would definitely check for RD. I saw a puppy with the oculo-skeletal abnormalities caused by RD and this puppy at 3 months was literally crippled and the legs were chondrodysplastic (think Bassett Hound). This is retinal dysplasia in it's severe form. Mild would be retinal folds when very young (can disappear in a few months) or retinal dysplasia without the skeletal abnormalities.
I would see to it that both parents be checked for RD, and any other related dogs. All related puppies should be checked at a young age (I believe before 4 months of age) also, for the folds that can disappear. Presence of the folds at a young age does mean that the puppy has RD, even if they go away, and it is most definitely hereditary.
You need to weed this out, I'm sure you do not intentionally want to bring non-viable puppies into the world, and you need to put this whole breeding line on hold until you find out what this is.
Can you let us know when you find out as a learning tool?

There is an excellent article in this month's (June) Dogs In Canada, written by a vet, about 3 myopathies found in Retrievers. After reading this, I'm betting that your line is carrying/affected by one of them -
http://www.dogsincanada.com/peek-inside

I think by next month they will have the article online, if you don't have access to the magazine itself.

thank you to all.
I think that RD sounds more probable and did discuss with the vet but he wouldn't/couldn't confirm. Narcropsy was done on the last puppy only but didn't show anything.
Will read the DIC article, might be something in that

just something to check into as well.
what about a selenium deficiency? This can cause white muscle disease and happens over time. causes the animal to loose control of muscles most in the limbs.

If it shows up again a shot of BoSe would either help or do nothing, but it would be another option.

good luck

The skeletal form of RD/OSD is inherited as a recessive, so both parents would be carriers. You can quickly confirm or eliminate this option by doing an Optigen RD/OSD test on the parents. Just to correct a statement in one of the previous posts, not all puppy folds are indications of RD/OSD. I have been studying a form of puppy folds that always disappear and are found only in small numbers and in the lower part of the retina. I have tested a dog that had these puppy folds, and he was not a carrier for RD/OSD, nor was either parent. Because my study is described on my website I hear from people with folds, and have heard of at least one case of geographic folds involving the whole retina in a dog that tested clear for RD/OSD. I believe that there are at least three conditions that cause retinal folds in Labs, of which one is associated with skeletal abnormalities.