Labrador Retriever Forum
I had a specific question on Labrador pup characteristics. I was in the process of getting my pup home in the next few weeks from a reputable breeder. I have received some pictures of the 5-week old pups from the litter. The two different pups whose pictures I received have dark red lines below their eyes. Is this normal for lab pups to have these dark red lines below their eyes?
Below are the answers i received from the breeder.
Q)In the pictures you sent me, i noticed red tear stain marks below the eyes. Is it common for pups to have them, tried calling you to discuss the same?
A)It is normal for yellow labs to have tear stains.
Q)In between wanted to check if the puppies have allergies to the shavings? Do all the puppies have the same staining.
A)No the puppies don't have any allergies to anything.I will be in touch.
Also, my vet told me that the stains do look a bit pronounced. When i kept repeating my concern ,rather than getting a valid answer the breeder called the deal off.(wanted to know, Was it wrong on my part to raise my concerns to the breeder)
It is not abnormal. But that is not to say all, or even most, lab puppies have stains. That would not be true. I suppose if all you wanted was a pet, it would not be a big deal. If you intend to show & the stains continued as the pup grew, you would have some work to do removing stains prior to showing.
My last litter of yellow puppies had terrible red staining under their eyes. I was lucky to have pet owners take my word that they would be fine once they were off the pine shavings. Of course, as soon as they went to there new homes, the eyes cleared right up. I think the fine dust from the shavings ends up in the eyes when they play in them. You should have given the breeder the benefit of the doubt--you might have talked yourself right out of a really nice puppy.
I did ask the breeder about the pine shavings, below is the answer i got.I just wanted a breeder who could answer my concerns.
Q)In between wanted to check if the puppies have allergies to the shavings? Do all the puppies have the same staining.
A)No the puppies don't have any allergies to anything.I will be in touch.
Anyways thanks for the answer
In most cases, the puppies aren't actually "allergic" to the pine shavings, rather the pine dust and shavings get in their eyes and cause an irritation which makes them tear and drip, which makes the stains. Nothing that some time off the shavings won't fix. Good luck to you.
I had the problem with my last litter and they looked pretty pronounced. Took them in at 7 weeks for eye CERF and voiced my concern to my Ophthalmologist- was told their eyes were perfect- tear ducts open- but it was common to see with shorter muzzles. It went away in a few weeks.
The puppy I kept started watering with little amount of staining again, a few weeks later. As soon as she lost (and cut) her front uppers, it stopped. Must have been from teething, which could be why it happened the first time. At almost 5 months, eyes are bright and beautiful, dark pigment and no eye stains.
I woulded have asked for an eye CERF exam to be done, to make sure there were no other reasons for the tearing.
Katie, don't feel bad, I wouldn't want to buy a puppy from someone who answered to me like that. There are those here who may try to make you feel bad about asking your breeder questions but you did nothing wrong. If you came here and asked that question first there would be some who would say "why don't you ask your breeder". Your damned if you do and your dammed if you don't. Who wants a breeder that makes you feel like your on eggshells whenever you want to ask a question and who would take a puppy away from someone for this reason? A cruel, sad, high on their horse with something to hide breeder that's who.
I don't think it's normal for a healthy dog to have tear staining it's whole life and I wouldn't breed to a stud that has this. I don't like it in a pet or otherwise, this is not a poodle and it does take away from that wonderful lab expression IMO. One of my dogs had pretty bad tear staining as a puppy and she wasn't on shavings, it was a growth/maturity thing. My vet explained to me that when the teeth are growing it increases pressure and can cause tear staining or it can be caused by slow development of the tear glands. My vet was right and after a few weeks they cleared up and she has never had tear staining since.
It's the breeders loss if she can't accept a puppy buyer that has concerns, she should be so lucky to get such a buyer. You must be crushed but you will eventually see that this IS for the best, things happen for a reason. I hope you find a puppy soon to mend your broken heart and a good breeder that can guide and assist you throughout your dogs entire life. Post your location, maybe someone can help you out.
I keep hearing this over and over. Luckly the word is getting out about BYB and people are trying to do the responsible thing and go to reputable breeders. However, I keep hearing stories over and over where breeders are blowing off, or just plain rude to pet puppy buyers. Too busy with showing and what not to want to "deal" with puppy buyers. Can't keep them all guys, lets try and be a little nicer to concerned buyers.
To the original poster:
Don't feel bad about questioning this. I've bred many litters and raised them all on shavings. Only the odd puppy will have any tearing at all and NONE have had stains from it.
I too passed over a puppy when I was picking my pick of a litter, owed to me, and chose one without tear stains. In this instance, in addition to the staining, the puppy clearly had conjunctivitis and the breeder who owed me the puppy just sluffed it off and said it was from the shavings. It wasn't. It was more serious than that. You did the right thing and I agree with the others, if a breeder makes you feel like you're a pain in the butt because you ask questions, move on. There are enough reputable Breeders out there who welcome your questions and your concerns. Good luck in finding the right puppy.
And on to another side of this subject; does any one have an effective cleanser for the tear stains? Not on puppies but I have an older girl that has them and if I can clean them up, fine, if I cant fine too.
I have a new line of yellows, father is a champion. All the pups get a little of a darkish red tear stain between 4-7 weeks old. I always attributed it to the pine shavings. it happens every litter, and it goes away, everytime.
I never noticed it in the past, although my stud dogs had mostly been a very white yellow coat, this stud dog's coat has a little reddish in it. So I had to get use to this. It concerned me at first, but none ever had entropian, or conjunctivitis. It has always been the pine shavings.
a word on questions...
I remember 20 years ago, I thought all old time breeders where such *ithches. They were gruff on the phone with me, short answers, not friendly. Now after 23 years of this, I kind of understand where they were coming from, but I always tell my husband to let me know when i start getting gruff, short, or rude,because when i do, then I need to have someone else answer my phone call and emails or something.
You do get tired of the same old questions (espcially the ones in big plain bold text on you website LOL!) or the "paranoid" puppy buyer. But you can't avoid it. I try to be pleasant, professional, and thorough if I can. I try to remember when it was my "first time" and I wanted to do my homework, ask the right questions, etc...
To the OP, I think you may have missed out on a nice puppy, but perhaps you would not have had such a great experience working with that breeder for the next 15 years, you know?
I could understand if the breeder seemed defensive or vague, it may have given you a red flag.
I have a big bold sign above my desk ( you know how those signs with all those sayings are so popular now?)
well, anyway, mine says "Do the Right Thing"" and its my constant reminder, I see it when I'm on the phone, at my desk, talking to clients. It keeps my accountable. Reminds me always. And I hope that I treat people as I would want to be treated.
I think this is a good place to also congratulate some breeders out there who for YEARS have done this, and still are always pleasant and nice to their clients.
We can speak well of people here, right?
Sally Kelley...bless her heart. (who sold me my first well bred pup 20 years ago)
Vicki Creamer...you always make me laugh. You help the newbie, and you are always upfront and pleasant.
Mary Weist...always super nice.
Just to name of few, there are so many.
So, OP, find a breeder you feel comfortable with. It is a relationship with the Breeder you are choosing too. I hope you have GREAT luck with your new puppy!!!
Ya'll have a good day.
Very well said, EML
I have to say that in my last litter, there was a yellow boy that had terrible runny eyes and stains just at the time he was ready to go to his new home. Before that pup went home, I had him checked out and he had entropian in both eyes. I told the puppy buyer in advance and gave him the opportunity to back out but he chose to take the pup anyway. Eye tacking did the trick and no more problems.
So it can be more the shavings causing the problem and I think the OP was smart for asking, but the response from the breeder seems a little abrupt.
