I am fairly new. I have a champion bitch I bred to a nice stud dog owned by a well known breeder. This breeder looked at my pups and asked if she could buy the pick male. I was honored! I sent her the AKC registration papers with my kennel name written in. When I met the breeder again at the pups first show I found out she had removed my kennel name and put hers. My name is listed as the only breeder. I am unhappy about it but not sure how to handle it. Is this common and expected when dealing with a well known? Am I wrong to expect my kennel name on the pup? I suppose what is done is done but I feel sort of cheated.

I think that if you buy a puppy it is yours and you can name it whatever you want.

Oh I disagree, I would be outraged ! I would call her directly and speak my peace, making sure there were NO misunderstandings.

How dare she erase your kennel name !

It is very sad to hear that someome would do this to you. It's plain to see that winning and notoriety is everything to this person, and ethics take a back seat. I certainly would let her know how you feel but I am sure it won't do any good. She will just blow you off most likely.

I had this happen once. I didn't know it for a while because this person did not show the bitch. I let it go. I now have a bitch that goes back to my foundation through this bitch and I do wish it had my kennel name on her. But in another generation it won't show so I guess it is no big deal. I know I bred her.

The kennel name of who bred the litter should be first on the AKC registered name. It is wrong for that breeder to change it to her own name and take credit for it. I may have a dog or two that I have aquired in the past and now I no longer deal with that breeder but I still leave their kennel name as is on my dog.

I learned my lesson the hard way as well with
a well known breeder. From that point on I
name and register all puppies in my name
before I give them the paper work on their
puppy. That way there is NO way people can
change, add or remove anything.

That stinks. At the very least, she should have asked your permission for using her kennel name and deleting yours. Some people have absolutely NO class. Now, if you try to get her to change it, all you will accomplish is a major fuss.

It is absolutely disrespectful. You should feel cheated because you were. Shame on them.

I would have contacted you and told you what my preferences were and worked out something we both agreed on.

Probably would not like the fact that you added your kennel name on the app like I was a pet person.

While certainly not "illegal" in terms of what that person can or can't do, but certainly not cool. My question is that when you sold the puppy, did you talk to her about keeping your kennel name in the registered name, or did you just assume that if you filled it in, she would keep it? Had I been in that situation, I would have specifically addressed that before I did the transaction. I don't think I would have cared who's kennel name was first, but I would have wanted mine in there somewhere to have credit for the pup. In any case, no matter what, every time that dog is shown, you WILL be listed as the breeder.

And to the person who says she does all the registrations herself in her name first, it's a good idea, but remember the AKC is now allowing names to be changed if the dog has not earned a title or points. And if you register the pup and then transfer full ownership over to the new person, I believe they can later change the name to whatever they want.

I do agree it's incredibly disrespectful.

Had this happen also, known breeder. Felt very disappointed that she had done it. Found out at the first show the pup attended. Fool me once. They are in it for themselves. Would have made us keep her kennel name on a pup from her. I think registering the pup next time myself is a good idea. I like that.
And after all the work we put into our nice pups, no it just not like its your dog now. Not if there are understanding of pups back in return.

maybe interesting to know, that in finland.
breeder registers the whole litter with her/his kennel name + puppy names + all microchipped prior to leaving for new homes with thei registration documents each one.

kennel club has the copies of all microchips as well.

i the studdog owner wants a pick puppy its name is at was registered by breeder, no changes.

Ritva; ie; MERGUS Big Ben / MERGUS Barbie Girl when I got them!

It is common courtesy to use the breeders kennel name!
I would be furious!
I have used the breeders kennel name on any dog I purchased, and would expect the same! I've had a few pet people remove the kennel name, but a breeder should know better!

I just had a major bout with AKC because I crossed out, NOT the breeders kennel name but the name that I gave the girl then changed my mind to another one and it took me almost a month to straighten it out, my question being, how can someone, just cross out a kennel name and AKC accept it without the breeder not having a say in the matter? Let them go back to the litter registration and investigate!

Perhaps the litter was registered online, and AKC never saw the papers?

I went to AKC's online site to register a pup sold to me as "show potential" last week. I have a very explicit contract with the breeder(also co-owner), and one of the stipulations in the contract was that I was to use her kennel name. No problem. I was shocked to find out that I could've registered that pup online as any name I wanted. AND to boot, since the breeder has her kennel name registered with the AKC, it wouldn't let me register the pup with the kennel name because I didn't have the breeder's permission to use it. So I got out my handy dandy black pen and filled out the paperwork that came with the pup and mailed it in. I learned alot about online registration, and frankly I'm shocked.

So you can change the name. Is that true when the original kennel name is registered?

The AKC offers the option to register the puppies individually to the breeder - in that case, no name change can be made without the breeder's written consent.

Names and co-ownerships are huge headaches for the AKC. You can imagine the fallout when relationships go sour. I've seen some dogs who obviously had the name of the breeder's kennel removed and were given taunting names like, "Last Laugh" or "In Your Face"

Don't fool yourself on the name not being able to be changed, if the dog has not won as titles or points the owner can pay to have the name changed.
I do ASK my new puppy owners if it is agreeable with them to have my kennel name on the dog but it is their option if they will or won't use it. They PAID for the dog so it is theirs to do with as they want, no matter how much we like to think we have control over some issues we really have NONE once we've sold the dog as dogs are considered property by law.
Aloha,
Jackie

You're not kidding about that! Had it happen. Didn't bother me, just showed true colors I knew all along.

Actually that is not accurate. If the litter owner registers the puppies to themself first, the name cannot be changed without their written consent. Here is the link to the AKC rules about naming and renaming:
http://www.akc.org/reg/namingofdog.cfm

Actually they can still change the name.

Did you go to the above link I provided and read the rule? If the breeder registers the dog to themself, the name cannot be changed without their written consent. It is clearly stated on the AKC's website.

I have in my contract that my kennel name MUST prefix the reg. name, and cannot be changed or all warranties are null/void. some have changed the name anyways ( why? ), but they have forfeited the health warranty by doing so ( stupid move, I'd say ). oh well, cannot control everything!

I've done that too, registered the entire litter ( let folks choose the name with my kennel prefix ), but then they don't transfer the dogs into their names, and it looks to AKC like I own a gazillion dogs! ( even when I remind them repeatedly )

From AKC WEBSITE:

The name of an AKC registered dog may be changed provided the dog was whelped in the United States. Further, in cases where the litter owner(s) first individually registered the dog, the litter owner(s) written consent shall be required. A dog name containing a Registered Kennel Name cannot be changed without the written consent of the owner(s) of that Registered Kennel Name. However, no change in name will be recorded by the American Kennel Club after the dog has produced or sired an AKC registered litter or has received an award at an AKC-licensed or member event. Any name change must comply with all AKC requirements.

You can download a Dog Name Change Authorization application from our Web site. The fee for changing a dog's name is $25.00.

Regardless of whether people CAN change the name of the dog or not, people should still make an attempt to do the right thing. I would not be as concerned with pet owners who do not really see the significance of a kennel name and want to name their dog, but I would expect breeders to treat others' kennel names with the same respect they believe their own kennel name deserves. Unless another agreement is made in advance, the litter owner's kennel name should be used out of respect, if nothing else.

The breeder was wrong but it shows you that either you work with someone trustworthy or don't at all. This could happen to any breeder. Did you say anything to her when you saw the name change?

The only thing you possibly did wrong was not discuss it in depth with her before allowing her to have a pup of YOURS. You paid the stud fee right? She bought the pick male pup from you with full registration. Did you tell her before you sent the registration papers that you wanted your kennel name used?

Now I am playing Devil's Advocate, if she said she refused to use your kennel name after discussing it, would you have still sold her the puppy?

I'm sure you won't ever let this happen again. She screwed other breeders out of a similar situation with you and us that are reading your post.

I hope she's reading what people think of her. That's out in out fraud, she removed text you entered on the registration form.

I thought AKC spots changes, erasures or white-out and won't register a pup if changes are made on registration paper-work?

You were cheated, her kennel name could have gone after yours with both on there. If I were you, I would list the pup on your site under Bred by Us, Loved by Others, with your kennel name and whatever she put after her kennel name. Other breeders surfing might understand what happened without another word uttered.

What a shame some people can be that shady.

The stud owner probably is under the misconception that HER stud dog was 100% responsible for producing that puppy and has simply forgotten that YOU, the bitch OWNER, made the decision to breed your bitch. cared for her, showed her into what she is, a Champion, got her clearances done, decided to put that pedigree together that made up your litter, raised that litter, cared for those puppies and so on.......If that puppy turns into a champion, that too, will be all her boys doing....

But boy I'll tell ya, if your litter was ugly, THAT my friend would have been ALL YOUR bitches fault.....same goes if her puppy doesn't pass a clearance. It would have to be your bitches fault of course

Sorry this happened to you. It sucks but some breeders are just plain blind and have no courtesy.

As a stud owner I discussed this with the breeder. She had a dog that "WE" both feel would compliment each other. I left my boy with her for the breedings charged no money and I'm willing to take the 2nd bitch of first pick male! I have made several trips to her house to help her with the litter and she has no problem letting me put my kennel name on this one pup as she will still be listed as breeder.

We're not in Finland Ritva. It's nice to know the Finnish practices but we're speaking of apples and oranges.

This breeder pulled a quick scam on someone newer than her. Was it really worth it to her for her kennel name on him? If so, you gave her a fine puppy she didn't deserve. Her stud-dog is listed on the registration, you can see it's not her bitch that whelped the litter. That's disgusting behavior. If she didn't agree then she should have called or e-mailed you. To change your handwriting is illegal.

Yes, but that is YOUR mutually agreed upon decision.

When I bought my first show lab from a reputable breeder, she said nothing about using her kennel name and I didn't know I was supposed to use it so I didn't. When I saw the breeder at my dog's first show, she was upset that I hadn't used her kennel name so I told her I'd call AKC as soon as I got home and make the change. Came to find out from AKC that a dog doesn't have to win points or a championship to prevent the name from being changed, but just has to place in a class. Doing so begins that pup's show record, which is what prevents a name from being changed. The breeder understood I didn't intentionally leave her off and I haven't made the same mistake since. So, any placement in a class with no points involved is what keeps a name from being changed.

If she is a well known breeder, she knew what she was doing. It is unrespectfull, and she does not want to give you the credit for been the breeder. No mistakes there. I would be very upset.

I guess I'm OLD SCHOOL. The dog world I learned it was clear that on a STUD puppy, the owner of the stud could name the puppy what ever they wanted, to add the breeders kennel name was the choice of the stud dog owner. I asked Kirsi, "Tweedledum" if Brookland could be in the name hence Tweedledum Brookland Savoy, I have always felt it makes life simpler in locating a stud dog IF the name of the Kennel where the dog resides is part of the name The Breeder is always the one who counts, the stud owner is "stewdard" to guide his career! I offer this to anyone who buys a potential stud dog from me

This is what I thought should happen. Breeder kennel name first, then stud dog owner kennel name, then chosen name. That would have been perfect. But, how would Kirsi have felt of you named him Brookland's Savoy?

same here, used a well known, champion stud dog. The owner of the stud dog wanted a pup, not fee, so I didn't even think twice about letting her put her kennel name on the papers...and funny thing is, back then, I did not even know that was what was "courtesy", I just figured that was the right thing for me to do. She ended up finishing that dog, and still campaigns him, and I'm on as the breeder, and very proud each time I see it in a catalog!

ok, you guys say this seems to be disrespectful and I agree with that, but as far as I'm concerned this is not an obligation. I mean anyone can name the puppy whatever they want on the contrary it would we against the rules, but indeed it is NOT.
I understand how upset you are feeling but please try to control your possesion once the puppy is not yours, it was just bred by you. That's the person's choice. Therefore stop slandering whoever this person is, we all have bad attitudes and sometimes we do not realise that.

YES, the pup can be named whatever the new owner wishes AFTER the breeder is recognized. If I'm ABC kennel and I sell a pup to XYZ kennel, I'd be horrified to see that a pup that I bred with the XYZ prefix there and NOT mine! Perhaps I'm being extreme, but that is nothing short of plagiarism - taking someone else's work and passing it off as your own. It's downright despicable!

Agreed.

It didn't bother you that she left your kennel name off entirely? It would have bothered me a lot. Did you know your kennel name would not be on the dog at all? Were you asked about it, or was it just done? When it happened to me I was not asked.

I think the breeders name should always be on the dogs. If you want yours also, add it somewhere in the name. If stud dog pup ask about putting yours first, but PUT the breeders kennel in there also. We all work hard, be fair.

The AKC believes that once you sell the dog, the new owner has the right to name the dog whatever they want. Maybe the new owner goes by the AKC rules.

A dog with a registered kennel name included in the first registered name cannot be changed, but the name of a dog without titles and without a registered kennel in the original registered name can be changed.

Easy solution. Registered your kennel name with AKC and fill out the name on the first registration papers and mail it yourself. (Has to be mailed because it
requires your signature to use your registered kennel name.)

According to new AKC rules, breeders *are* allowed
to choose the original registered name.

Once burned, twice wary.

But I am terribly sorry that you were treated so badly. Sad, sad, sad behavior that can only decrease trust and increase paperwork and rules in the future. This kind of behavior emerges from rampant competition without any sense of cooperation or good sportsmanship.

Actually, you don't even have to have a registered kennel name. If the breeder registers the puppies individually to themself first, the name cannot be changed without their written consent.

"The name of an AKC registered dog may be changed provided the dog was whelped in the United States. Further, in cases where the litter owner(s) first individually registered the dog, the litter owner(s) written consent shall be required. A dog name containing a Registered Kennel Name cannot be changed without the written consent of the owner(s) of that Registered Kennel Name. "

Thanks for that correction, Deven. For a breeder to first register the entire litter and then transfer ownership still seems like an expensive way to handle this. But it would certainly work for those who have not registered their kennel name.