We've built 4 days of majors here in MN this weekend but they've substituted Judge Carolyn Kraskey for Terry Stacy. I paid to show 4 dogs to Stacy that I believe he'll like, now don't know what to do, a lot of money to waste on a judge I don't know enough about. From my experience Terry Stacy likes a moderate (not overdone) dog, correct structure, a really good mover with a lot of "attitude", doesn't care what color. So that what I was bringing him. (And, IMO, he's not "political".)

I'd love to hear what any of you know about Carolyn Kraskey, what she likes, etc. I'm thinking about pulling my entries that day. Advice???

Get a grip. You already payed for it. What are you going to loose showing to a different judge?

About $120 if entry fees are the same as they are here on the East Coast. If the Judge historically puts up only blacks, and you have yellows, then it may be well worth getting your money back for that day. We have learned that it is just too expensive to show to Judges that most likely will not consider us. It is one person's opinion on any given day, and we accept that. But if we know going in that our dogs won't be what the Judge likes, then why waste the money. If they have a last minute change, which occurred after entries closed, you can get your money back as long as you do the required paperwork prior to the start of the show. Sorry, but I don't know anything about this Judge's likes and dislikes.

Carolyn Kraskey is very fair and will pick what she thinks to be the best representative of the breed. You have built 4 days of majors, why jeopardize majors. Please post results will be curious to see how the weekend goes.

I've never shown to Carolyn Kraskey, but I disagree with the philosophy that if it's already built you are obligated to show. What day is she judging? Will the major break without yours? As someone who enters to win and strategically enters dogs only on the days that I think the judge will like my dog, I would say if it's not the first day, go and see what dogs are there and how your dogs compare as far as coat and conditioning, and watch Ms Kraskey judge other breeds to see what she puts up. Talk to other exhibitors and if you do decide to pull entries, at least let others know that you are so that dogs lacking majors can also be pulled prior to the start of the show. I've definitely seen this happen and think that clubs should be aware that entries are made based on judges. Likely Mr Stacy overdrew and sometimes that is not forseeable if the show is not tradionally majors and they were built this year in one or more breeds.

I wouldn't just show for the sake of showing though.

She judged the Sweeps at the Twin Cities specialty and did a great job. She put up a very moderate well moving dog and bitch puppy for sweeps. Didn't seem to be on color as they weren't the same color either. You could go look up results from that.
They had a lab person only do labs because the majors were built. I don't believe she is judging anything else at all.

She has judged twice at LRCTC now and after the first time would not enter under her again. She is not a Lab person...she has a different retriever breed and the dogs she puts up look more like this breed in body style than proper Labs.

If the major is built, roll the dice and go for it..you never know what this gal is going to put up. Can't be any worse than some of the other all rounders we get.

Totally agree with the above post. She likes her Labradors to look like her breed. Coats as well. If I was not already entered I'd not enter.

How can a Lab look like an American Water Spaniel??

Apparently Terry Stacy overdrew for Thursday of this four day show. It can be very difficult to find a judge after entries have closed and this happens. If you want a refund just send Onofrio an e-mail as long as they get it prior to the weekend you will be fine or cancel a half hour before the show starts. Or take your chances show your dogs and see what happens, you might be pleasantly surprised!

Whatever you decide have a good time at these shows.

Once the entry date for the show passes - you are able to get a refund on your entries?

What does it mean "she overdrew"? I do not know much about the judge selection precess, and I don't understand what this means, could you fill me in please? Thanks.

If there is a judge change after the entries have closed you have the option of getting a refund and withdrawing your entries if you choose. You must do it prior to the beginning of the show (I believe it's a half hour). Judges have a certain number of dogs they can judge on any given day. When you add up the numbers for the breeds that were assigned for this judge on this day he was over that amount. I don't remember the exact number but you could find it in the AKC rules.

Are you NUTS???!!! Majors are hard to come by let alone the fact that it could be broken by you pulling your dogs!! Not a good way to make friends! I would not to be in your shoes it that were to happen.

not nessisary to atttack peepoles spelling and grammor

I worked very hard to get these majors pulled together. I would hope that people keep the dogs entered that they committed to entering as other people entered because we were close to majors. There are times when we as a lab community need to work together and not just think about ourselves. Someone will get the points and it could just be you. Every time we enter the ring we don't know what is going to happen. This is just another one of those days. From the sounds of it the judge is not going to like what I have entered, but they will be shown just the same as I am happy for others that can finish their dogs even if it is not me. Please keep this in mind.

Thanks, UNREAL, "Breeder" telling me to "get a grip" aggrevated me also.

"what am I going to lose"??? About $120 in entries, a day of my time, plus gas. I've invested almost $400 in entries for the weekend, helping to build majors, don't see much sense in wasting the time and money Thursday to show to a judge I don't want to show to! BTW, I still would have 9 entries for the weekend, that's still more than most others; I think I'd still be "doing my part"!

I've sent an e-mail to all the local breeders who were involved in building majors, told them how I feel, asking how THEY feel. I'm sure I'm not the only one and I'd REALLY kick myself if I went, then found out that others stayed home and majors broke anyway!

My last thought is that they should have pulled Terry Stacy from some other breed, left him judging Labs where there were majors.

Thanks to all of you for your input. If anyone has pertinent info about Kraskey's judging, please post and/or e-mail me privately.

Jenny

Jennifer, I know you coordinated building majors and everyone appreciates it. But you only entered ONE dog each day, not FOUR! That makes a lot of difference in the work, time and money involved! Even if I skip Thursday, I'm still bringing more than double the entries to the weekend than you are. And, as you know, I'm not feeling well. I think I'm still doing more than my share for these majors, not "just thinking of myself".

BTW, you could have e-mailed me privately if you wanted to "attack".

I have had enough and am not going to dignify this with a response.

Think you already did and if she does not want to show to this judge then leave her be. It is her money, time and dogs. It seems to me that there are more than enough entries. I am not sure why you attacked Jenny here.... Good sportsmanship is just lip service to some. tsk tsk

I do not see an attack...just leave it be. Seriously, I can't believe what I am reading!

Thank you for your reasonable response. With my original post, I was just trying to find out more about the substitute judge before I made a decision. Guess all I did was stir up crap about whether it's justified to potentially break a major because of an undesirable judge! Which, yes, you're right, is a mute subject because even if I pull my dogs Thursday, there will STILL be 21 boys there and only 16 are needed for the major.

Unless someone knows more about Kraskey, I think it's time to discontinue this thread. I'm fed up with this kind of stuff that has damaged too many friendships in this breeder world over the years. So I may just stay home and rest up for the other 3 days.

Ha! Believe me..she found them!

By the way intelligent person with spelling - "alot" is a lot so you need spell check too!

Jenny from Tealwood,

You do what you want to do. This is how it should be. I have never believed that anyone "owes" anybody when it comes to when and if we decide to pull dogs, skip a show or what have you. Life happens and everyone must do their own thing. Funny how you posted on the forum to find out about this judge and suddenly you are getting judged by another for thinking of pulling your dogs one day.

Some of us dog folk are getting to be way over the top. Take care of yourself Jenny, and do what works best for you and your dogs

Thank you, Pam. That's how I see it too, really upsetting how things get twisted around. I've heard others comment about being "afraid" to post things for fear of being jumped on, criticized ... also why so many don't want to identify themselves.

Exactly and that's why I asked....it was said in earlier posts that this judge put up dogs that looked like her breed and I wasn't seeing the similarities there.

Jenny,
Most of us who were under Carolyn Kraskey at LRCTC the first time did not enter under her the second time, because we considered her judging to be very, very poor. All the best Labs were sent out of the ring. She doesn't know anything about Lab breed type.

When people have worked cooperatively to build a major, I am thrilled and I try to support that effort in every way, even when my dogs are not likely to win.
Let's face it folks, we each have individually only a small chance of winning a major at any one show. But two people's dogs will win, regardless of the quality of the judging. We have to learn to celebrate the winning done by our friends and club members. These are our teammates in dog sports. These are our friends. If you cannot learn to view the world this way, you will a miss a great deal of the joy of participating in dog sports.

It's not about obligation. It's about friendship,
good sportsmanship, and cooperation. And yes, it costs
money, but you pay to play, not to win. Just playing needs to be the goal, not the winning, or you will be very unhappy and have few friends in this sport.

I would say do what you want, your dogs, your hard earned money. Sounds like she like a leaner dog with some legs. If that is not your dogs, don't go. That is not who you entered under. Those who won with her will have good things to say and the ones with the more typey dog will not offer much encouragement. I do not think people should be put on a guilt trip about Majors. Everything cost alot these days.

Anyone who bases decisions on the evaluation of anonymous posters is not using good judgment. The anonymous posters are not the people who will be disappointed by the lack of a major. Remember those are the people who will be helping you make a major when you need one.

But let's just suppose you are willing to ignore the feelings of those exhibitors you are likely to see in the flesh at the next dog show. Are you really willing to accept an anonymous poster's evaluation of the quality of the judging? Judges are just not as consistent as these folks imply, and judges change
and learn too. I've won lots of times when I didn't predict I would, and I've lost lots of times when I was sure that the judge liked my dog (put the dog up in the past).

Is the possibility of losing really worth losing your friends?

To goodsportsman...exactly, which is why no one should or will take your posts to seriously!

What does not make sense is, if you entered your dogs for all 4 days of these shows and only one judge change, how can you be sure that you are going to win on any of the other 3 days that you are entered? What is the difference if you show to this judge or the judges on the other days? You are not sure you are going to win on any of the other days of these shows yet you say you are still going to show your dogs on these other days. You are not even completely sure that the original judge was going to pick your dogs. It is always a chance we take walking into the ring nothing is for sure. I think it is poor sportsmanship to bail out on the people who are counting on you to be there for the majors.

I made no recommendations. In fact, I have no opinions of the judge. Most of what I said was just plain commonsense. I asked what I hoped would be thought-provoking questions to help the OP consider all the possible points of view and make her own choices. So if you want to pay no attention, by all means do so.

To all of you claiming this gal is going to break the major if she does not show...she is not! She said early on that even if she chooses not to show the entry is well over what is needed for a major. She was simply asking for an idea on the judge because she thought she might sit out that one day. She had stated she had not been feeling well.

Seriously! Stay on topic..answer the posters questions and actually read the posts instead of jumping on your soap boxes!

To Jenny - Have shown to this judge...won't do it again. Very poor judging of our breed. It was apparent that she did not understand the breed or it's purpose. JMHO

Thanks for saying what I wanted to say to finish out this thread! The orginal post asked for input about Kraskey, was not intended to open a moral debate about the right to pull entries due to a judge change! Several people e-mailed me privately with appropriate input also.

And I think my effort to involve the group of people local people who built the majors was the right thing to do. Those of us who've been around a while have run into these judge changes before ... on occasion almost everybody decides to pull their entries, not wanting to show to the substitute judge.

I never expected anyone to be upset with me if I didn't go the first day, especiallly since my absence wouldn't even come close to breaking the major. So, comments about "poor sportsmanship" or "just thinking about myself" are not justified ... IMO anyway.

End of subject I hope. I need to bathe dogs for the next 3 days of shows.
Jenny