Found out that one of our pups in a recent litter has a heart murmer. (sp?) Besides the obvious sad feelings and dread of calling the buyer with bad news, I need more info on this. If anyone could help with answers to the following I'd be hugely greatful.

1) Is this a condition that comes from the parents?

2) If a mild murmer can a dog live out it's normal lifespan with this?

Please if you would, keep your answers in laymens terms. Thanks so much for any info to help my little guy.

p.s. pup is 8 weeks, shows no outward signs at home of anything wrong. I will hold on to him until next vaccination and check him again before moving on to an echocardiogram.

How was the diagnosis made? Have you had him to a cardiologist? A puppy murmur can go away. But, there are other heart problems that are first heard as a murmur. Get him echoed and then you will know for sure. If it is TVD, get him into the study. Don't hide him like so many other people are, trying to protect the stud dogs.

TVD doesn't necessarily just come from the stud dog...check ALL your breeding dogs, male and female, with Echo color dopplar!

Was it your regular vet or a cardiologist that made the diagnosis? Some general practitioner vets aren't all that familiar with listening to puppy hearts. From what I'm told, they do often sound different than adult hearts. With how the heart develops in a pup, sometimes the heart hasn't fully developed even at 7/8 weeks and needs just a bit more time. I'm sure someone with more veterinary knowledge than me could explain.

I've had several pups out of one of my breeding bitches that had puppy murmurs. In ALL of them, it simply was a slow developing heart and was an innocent puppy murmur. Apparently puppy murmurs was something this bitch tended to throw in her pups. In all cases, the murmurs were detected on the wellness check I get for my pups at my general practitioner vet before I sent them home. For my own peace of mind, I did have all the pups with murmurs checked out by a cardiologist (auscultation) before I was comfortable sending them to their new homes. One of those 7 week old pups even had an echo done. The murmur wasn't in a location indicative of TVD. As the pup got older, the murmur went away. I don't even think the family that got this pup appreciated the expense I went to (which didn't get passed along to them as I didn't charge any more for the pup) to make sure their pup was indeed healthy. Oh well--at least it made me sleep better at night.

Out of all the offspring we have kept out of this particular bitch, all have passed their cardiac exams as adults. One of these was a pup that did have a murmur as a baby which she did indeed grow out of.

The 'puppy murmur' is caused by anemic or thin blood. These are the types that can be outgrown. Experienced Vets can usually call a puppy murmur by listening. All puppies, regardless of the breed, are born anemic and build blood cells as they eat and grow. You can build up the puppy's red count by grinding up freeze dried liver in a blender and adding it to their kibble or feeding fresh cooked.

There are also mitral valve defects. At present MVD isn't thought to be an inherited condition. Although it is better news for your breeding program than TVD, the prognosis for the pup with the murmur is not good.

Subaortic Stenosis is a possibility too. The main artery (aorta) has defective walls that 'harden' and can't flex and help pump blood. This is thought to be dominant with incomplete/penetrance in Golden Retrievers. Labrador inheritance is not known. Again the prognosis for the affected pup is poor.

If TVD or SAS is confirmed, it may be a good idea to have the litter cleared by a specialist before placing them. Good luck with your little one.

The heart is the first organ to form. It is complete and does not continue to develop. If there are defects in the valves or arteries that cause leaking, the heart wall muscle will have to contract harder to empty the chambers so that blood does not clot. As the muscle does the job the valves and arteries can't do, the muscle enlarges breaking the web-like electrical circuits that trigger the beat -- congestive heart failure. Hope this helps.

Interesting how a simple question about a murmur jumped right to TVD and the usual blame game discussion. Ridiculous.

Thank you for all of the replies. I will update as time unfolds what will happen. I will be talking with my vet today to discuss an echocardiogram.

I have to add that I called the buyer of this puppy and he could not have been nicer. I offered to giive him the name of a breeder I know who has puppies available but he declined saying that my honesty makes him want to buy a puppy from mke all the more and that he will wait to get one from me. When I told him I was sorry that the children would be so dissapointed he said that if that is the worst thing they have to suffer through in their childhood than they will be lucky. So, we can see that there are great puppy buyers out there. He actually understood how I felt as well. A good guy for sure

Worried, don't be too worried. Check your puppy again in a month, and you may be surprised to find the murmur gone. This happened to me, and my vet told me that it was not at all uncommon for them to go away with development. Your nice puppy buyer, may get his puppy yet. Good luck!

The place to start with this puppy is definitely getting an echo/doppler done to get a diagnosis, and also know that TVD is not the death sentence that many want to believe. They can very often live to middle age and beyond, depends on the severity and the individual. Having heart clearances by doppler will be something you'd also want to do before breeding those parents again. You can do a search on heart murmurs on this forum and will find lots of threads, not always with correct information but many on TVD will be very helpful to you(as well as other heart defects). There are too many breeders who only want to protect their kennel reputation so won't talk about this and just euthanize affected puppies. You'll find out the hard way if you're breeding that this is more common than you realize. Hopefully your puppy is affected with a less serious condition. Good luck with your little one and I'm glad you have a family who will love her!

"There has been no "blame game"...On the other hand, you sound unusually defensive."


Interesting too that YOU read that into it. I have never had a pup with TVD.

I had a pup with a murmur at 3.5 months, completely clear in every checkup there after, dog is now 16 months.

Recheck the pup in a few weeks. If the murmur is still there or gets worse, please get a referral to a veterinary cardiologist. I have a pup that had a grade 1 murmur at 6 weeks, 9 weeks grade 3 and after an exam at the cardiologist she is now a grade 5. ECHO was done and she has severe TVD. She exhibits no clinical signs of an heart issue; thankfully.

How is your girl doing with the severe TVD?

In a general discussion -- Dr. Tyrell, a cardiologist said he believes that 70% of puppies are born with a heart murmur.

The majority of which turn out to be innocent murmurs, they heart hasn't quite finished developing. Many are gone by 10 weeks -- but not to worry until the pup reaches 6 months of age.

Spend the money now -- have a cardiologist listen. He should be able to tell you now and probably relieve your fears.

Good luck!

with going to the cardiologist now.

Prayers he out grows it and your wonderful buyer gets their pup.

Please keep us posted.

She is doing well; thanks for asking. We are waiting on bloodwork results to check on her digoxin levels. She has the activity level of a normal 4 month old pup. I'm taking her and her best buddy for a swim today.

I have a heart murmer. Early echos when I was a kid showed nothing. A few years ago my doctor thought it sounded louder, so I went for another echo. The echo showed coarctation of the aorta! The cardiologist was astonished since that's usually fatal if not corrected when young. So I went off to the surgeon in a big panic expecting open heart surgery or to drop dead at any minute, and an echo from a different angle showed it was pseudo-coarctation - my aorta makes a big S curve and from the angle of the first echo it looked kinked. Long story short, I have a murmer and nothing at all is wrong with me. Murmers are caused by lots of things, many of them totally benign.

what is the puppy's prognosis at this point now that she has started digoxin. is the right side of her heart already enlarged or is it just a malfunctioning tricuspid valve?

Her heart is already enlarged. She has Ebstein's anomaly. She amazes me! She has the activity level of a normal lab pup and can run all day long even in 90 degree weather. Dr Tyrell didn't give us a prognosis for life span just that she may live 6 months to 16 years. He says it is amazing what the heart can do. we make sure she lives every day to the fullest! We are in the process of arranging to get her parents and her to Penn to participate in the TVD study.

The 2nd most common reason for heart murmur in puppies is a patent ductus arteriousus. This is a little blood vessel between 2 main arteries in the body. This little vessel is supposed to close off by 3 days after birth but that does not always happen, it sometimes takes several weeks to close and rarely requires surgery. Other reasons for murmurs are anemia which someone above already called thin blood. I would follow their suggestion and feed high iron food such as liver. Another common cause of murmur is an aotal septal defect - a littel hole in the heart. This may require surgery. Personally I have bred 2 pups with murmurs. One my vet found and the other the new pup's family vet diagnosed. Both cleared by themselves by 12 weeks. Parents are clear by cardiologist. At that time I did research and found 80% of murmurs clear by themselves by 6 months. Is pup energetic? Does he/she eat and drink well without having to rest to breathe during eating or drinking? Does his/her tongue stay pink with exercise and eating? If the answer is "yes" to all these, I'd hang onto pup until they are 10-12 weeks, see if murmur is still present, if so then pursue a cardiologist. JMO. All the best to pup.
(P.S. my previous murmur pups are 2 and 3 yo and have never had any subsequent problems.)