I did a collection yesterday on my boy, and let it set in the frig for 2 hrs before I packaged it up in the Camelot Farms extender and box. When we looked under the microscope, I'd say 50% of the swimmers were dead. Is this normal? Did I handle it wrong? I want to do it RIGHT today for the second shipment!!!

I guess I also wanted to see if the semen seperated in the frig during those 2 hrs so I could send only the sperm rich fraction.

Help!!

Umm - you need to re-read the directions. You extend the semen, THEN refrigerate prior to packaging. Refrigerating unextended semen WILL KILL IT!

You should have ONLY collected the sperm-rich fraction by stopping when the collection turns clear. You can also centrifuge it at an appropriately-low speed. But I have NO idea where you got it in your head to let it sit in the fridge unextended to separate!

Ditto, someone told me once that unextended semen, if not put into a bitch, dies within 20 minutes. I don't think that's completely true but you do need to have your extender warmed and ready right away.

Take the extender and put it under your arm for a while to warm it. Putting it in with it cold can also kill it. Make sure you put the rest of the extender you are not using back in fridge.
So yes semen needs to go stright in the warm extender to a shipping box. Do not put the semen in th e fridge!

Yes, unfortunately what you did was not correct procedure and the sperm will automatically die just as you saw. I also suggest moving to Mini Tube Chill 5 from Camelot

1. After collection, take a drop and put on slide and check to make sure it's good, heads and tails attached, great volume etc.. I would not go just by it looking rich and milky.
2. spin it down speed of 700-800 for 10 minutes if you collect more then just the sperm rich fraction
3. Take off any extra fluid other then sperm and ensure you are removing fluid with proper pipette. Use a different/new pipette for putting in the extender.
4. extend with extender (I use Chill 5) FIRST. Bring extender almost to room temp by leaving out before you do the collection.... do 1 part semen to 3-4 parts extender (chill 5 directions, you will have to read your instructions for this if it's not Chill 5) and then place into fridge while waiting for fed ex pick up.

I would also suggest calling or e mailing someone that knows how to do this because you are going to get too many variables in procedure making it more confusing then it really is. What you collect in and how you collect also becomes important. Mini Tube that sells Chill 5 also sells a great collection system.

I'm shocked that there are stud dog owners that would actually offer chilled extended semen without knowing how to prepare it. As a bitch owner, I guess it goes to show that it's not only the dog you are breeding to but the kennel/breeder have as much to do with the quality of semen some times!

Do most stud dog owners evaluate each dogs semen in different extenders still and have a repro vet analyze prior to shipment? My mentor taught me to collect and extend but I still have the repro vet analyze and culture each boy annually.

EML, I hope your bitch owner isn't reading this! I'd be one ticked off breeder if I paid shipping and collection, not to mention a stud fee, on the collection you got yesterday.

Shocked.

I think this is exactly why a majority of breeders are opting for collection/shipping to be done at a Vet's office. The bitch owner can be assured that they are getting what they are paying for.

Replying to:

"I'm shocked that there are stud dog owners that would actually offer chilled extended semen without knowing how to prepare it. As a bitch owner, I guess it goes to show that it's not only the dog you are breeding to but the kennel/breeder have as much to do with the quality of semen some times!
Reply to:
Do most stud dog owners evaluate each dogs semen in different extenders still and have a repro vet analyze prior to shipment? My mentor taught me to collect and extend but I still have the repro vet analyze and culture each boy annually.

EML, I hope your bitch owner isn't reading this! I'd be one ticked off breeder if I paid shipping and collection, not to mention a stud fee, on the collection you got yesterday."


That was rather harsh critisizm, IMO!!! We all have to start someplace and what better place than this forum to get needed information, without getting our head taken off?

Many of us actually started with a mentor!! A real life person that helped guide us through these things (BEFORE we made the mistake!). I actually remember the breeder of my dog walking me through a collection before we even did prelims (no sense in xraying a sterile dog!) complete with , 'now take the yellow vial out of your bra' and slowly add the semen to it, at which point I spilled it all over the chicken thawing in the sink!!!

When I actually collected and shipped the first time, not only was the sink void of my family's dinner, but I had nicely lined up glasses to prop the vials in to be sure I didn't waste the collection either. The family was happy not to eat chicken with secret sauce again, and the bitch owner was happy too!

I just think people in this day and age rely too heavily on the Internet for advice. Pick up the phone and call your friends who collect routinely, or call your handler. Or just read the instructions that come with the extenders!!!

YES, we all start someplace, but you do not charge for semen if you cannot get it collected and shipped properly. Original Poster needs to go to a VET to get this done right, or not charge for a product she does not have. The cost of shipping, and fresh chilled supplies is not minimal, not to mention the bitch owner most likely will miss her this time.

Yes, if someone is counting on you this time and it sounds like they are, go let the Vet do it your expense this time. I just did a breeding and testing alone was over $300. Gas back and forth for 3 test. Shipping cost. Oh yea, I would be upset. I also have a stud and knew nothing, but another long time stud dog owner walked me threw it many times. This is not something to just learn on. Wow. Not good. And thank goodness you ask so you can do a good shipment tomorrow.

Everyone is screaming go to a vet, go to a vet!, but in most cases, I much prefer an experienced breeder to just any old vet. There are a few vets that specialize in canine reproduction, but not many. And the 'spay-neuter' pet vets are clueless about this stuff.

You are right the spay/neuter Vets are clueless , but so is this "breeder", and charging for semen that is not viable. She needs a VET at this point , she has a commited bitch, especially if she sent that other shipment , and the bitch owner used it. The horse is out of the barn already, and the bitch owner doesn't know it ???

Many vets are clueless about repro stuff BUT you should have been finding a repro vet and working with him BEFORE taking money from a bitch owner.Testing your boy, culturing, etc. Last week alone I spent over $900.00 in progesterone testing, cultures, brucellosis tests, etc, etc. To miss a pregnancy after that expense HURTS!! Bottom line is- IF you don't know what you are doing- TELL THE BITCH OWNER-- she may be able to help you too- or at least find someone close enough to you to help.
By the way AKC rules state if you do a frozen or fresh chilled, there is SUPPOSED to be a vet signing the paperwork too!

Did she say that she charged anyone. How do you know she did not send it to a friend and they are just learning how. And even if she did she was asking for help, not to be jumped on. Too many horrible people in this world.
To the OP, hope it all works out great for you and whoever else is involed.

.....dog showing is a dying hobby.

Make all the new people feel like poop and there will be no one around to be mentored now or be mentors in the future.

Having said that, being a stud owner is a big responsibility. Most of the above advice is correct although poorly delivered and unsupportive. Half the people with negative posts probably haven't a clue either and are just looking for someone to pounce on to make themselves feel big.

I have had the experience of taking my bitch to an inexperienced stud owner and luckily I was able to get the breeding done myself with her stud dog. I learned that you do need to consider a lot more than the dog when you make stud decisions.

Exactly!! Everyone likes to jump to conclusions. I know if I had a stud dog, I'd like to think I could come to this forum and ask advice, especially if my mentor could not be reached by phone and I was looking for opinions.

I know how to collect a male, but have yet to do any fresh chilled breedings as I don't have a stud dog. I do have a lot of experience on the receiving end, doing progesterone test, A/I's and checking the sperm under a microscope. Come on guys this isn't rocket science.

Good luck to you EML, sounds like you got a few good answers.

Thanks for the chuckle. Yep, I know lots of people who just collect and send semen to friends for fun and come on to public forums to ask for help to make sure the SECOND shipment is right. LOL! Thanks for the chuckle!! BTW, the OP is by her own definition only a 'newbie' at this one thing. She's been breeding for years.

Actually, she is a friend, and yes, I did collect some that was in extender right away. some I set aside in frig by itself. I'm glad I did both.

We have always done side by side breedings. This one we shipped, not our vet, like in the past. We read all the info.

We got a really good collection today, too and wanted to ask this question. Thanks to all of you who appreciate the fact we can ask questions here!!!

The bitch owner got TWO good shipments.
And thank you all for your input!

hey thanks, yes, she is a friend, and no, I did not even charge her!

Gawd!! That is a crocka crap. There is no majority using vets. We inseminate our own bitch. I know many dozens of competent stud dog owners that know how to do all of this and could with one hand behind their back.

Get non-repro vets involved and it will be a disaster, the litters will get smaller or not exist. What a stupid comment. I would be more assured I was getting a crappy shipment if it came from a vet. They have their jobs, they're not reproductive trained for the most part.

I disagree, there are many "non repro" vets out there that DO know what they are doing. As a stud/bitch owner, we just need to do our homework on who is competent. I use a "non repro" vet and have 8-9 pup litters via chilled AI.

was that comment really necessary?

I agree with the other poster ... don't make the new people feel like crap when they ask legitimate questions AND don't be so judgemental when you dont't know all the circumstances.

If you "turn off" all the newcomers, show numbers will be down even more than they are now (and where will you get your points?) nor will you have people to breed to your dogs..

Think the big picture, people....

y'all crack me up.

read my OP answers....

I always had a repro vet/specialist do my shipments in the past. Now I'm doing my own. Have to always do it the first time yourself at some point...LOL! I bet you snarky ones never did it " the first time"...oh you kill me...."chuckle"

I've received lots of fresh chilled...but never shipped it myself. Since I get so many requests now for shipped, I'm like..."this ain't rocket science"...and decided to do my first with a friend who I was not even charging.
I'm ordering a centrifuge too. And trying to decide if I like Minitube kits or Camelot better. Not sure.

Yes, on the other end, vet doing AI.

Thank for all you kind folks out there!
not you snarky ones who always assume the worst, love to assume someone is an idiot, and love to bash!!! sheesh, GO GET A CAT! (why the heck are those people into labs??? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!???)

Oh, and thanks for all the KIND, lovely, private emails many of you sent me last night. You're the BEST!

Yes, we know you have been out there selling puppys for years. I agree most vets are not interested in breeding. Learning from a breeder friend with a stud dog is the answer. It is easy if you have done it and know what you are doing. Your first note was scary. We pay big bucks to be on the end of the shipment waiting for what we are paying for. The person who helped and did a another collection was not there to ask about putting it in the fridge ?

You mean puppies?

What a bunch of idiots...

NO, Im trying not to be too serious, as some, and joke about how silly the conversation here gets...lighten up.

Ya gotta laugh at how predictably the snarky people pile in like "cats"(catty) to be mean. LOL!

Now...go hug you labby, and laugh a little. give someone the benefit of the doubt today. EnJOY the day, and be positive and speak positive things wherever you go.

Life is short. Live well, laugh often, love much.

As for respectability in the lab world. I say let your dogs speak for themselves.
Treat everyone with kindness.
I wish Tudie a wonderful day, and wish you well in all you do.