isnt the fact that people are happy for the dog winning enough? You might as well expect us to name off every person who has had their hands on the dog since birth.
The breeder knows they did well, do they need that constant pat on the back, I doubt it.
why doesn't anyone ever congratulate (or say anything about) his breeder???
Why do you feel the need to start trouble? Do you know the 'breeder' personally? I doubt it since she is not in labs. Casbar's Hart to Hart is at least 5 generations of Casbar. Just because the owner Diane Ammerman is not the breeder on record does not mean that RJ is not a product of her hard work over the past 30 years to develop her lines.
Just be happy for your fellow Labrador on a great accomplishment of 11 best in shows at only age 3!
That's not true. If you look at the pedigree on the web site you can see that only 1/4 of the pedigree is Casbar. Should we be congratulating the breeders of the other 3/4 too?
Why does someone always have to start trouble?
huh?
CURIOUS
why doesn't anyone ever congratulate (or say anything about) his breeder???
Why do you feel the need to start trouble? Do you know the 'breeder' personally? I doubt it since she is not in labs. Casbar's Hart to Hart is at least 5 generations of Casbar. Just because the owner Diane Ammerman is not the breeder on record does not mean that RJ is not a product of her hard work over the past 30 years to develop her lines.
Just be happy for your fellow Labrador on a great accomplishment of 11 best in shows at only age 3!
I wasn't going to post, because everyone always starts stuff up when RJ wins! Part of the pedigree in there is one of my girls, do I care, no!! It took a whole pedigree to produce this top winning dog, lets be happy that there is a lab out there winning BIS!!!
I think it is wonderful, congrats to RJ, Joy, Diane and everyone that owned a dog in his pedigree-hows that!!!! Let give credit were credit is due, you don't have to like the dog or any association with him, fact is people, he's a top winning LABRADOR!!!
If your really in it for the breed be "HAPPY" for the dog and owner!!!!!!
That's not true. If you look at the pedigree on the web site you can see that only 1/4 of the pedigree is Casbar. Should we be congratulating the breeders of the other 3/4 too?
Why does someone always have to start trouble?
huh?
CURIOUS
why doesn't anyone ever congratulate (or say anything about) his breeder???
Why do you feel the need to start trouble? Do you know the 'breeder' personally? I doubt it since she is not in labs. Casbar's Hart to Hart is at least 5 generations of Casbar. Just because the owner Diane Ammerman is not the breeder on record does not mean that RJ is not a product of her hard work over the past 30 years to develop her lines.
Just be happy for your fellow Labrador on a great accomplishment of 11 best in shows at only age 3!
I don't see anyone starting trouble. Friends of mine that co-own with the OB (original breeder) and appreciate it, always mention the breeder. I give kudos to everyone whether I bred the dog or I co-own with the OB. The breeder of the dog will always be mentioned when I discuss my winning dogs that I haven't bred. I am grateful to have a special dog that their hard work went into even if the pedigree has my kennel name in it. Some of you apparently don't feel the same, you're allowed to but let us not get so dramatic.
Why are some of you getting disturbed by someone asking? Don't all breeders deserve credit? I don't know who the breeder is of this dog. If the owner doesn't want to mention or post it, that's their business but don't be surprised that some breeders find that to be peculiar manners. I wouldn't like it if I bred the dog. I also would be hesitant to place again with someone that didn't mention me as the breeder even once in a little while. I always do because everyone deserves credit and I've received mine also.
My point is, are the owner and handler so much more deserving than the breeder?
As for the controversy, I have not had the pleasure of meeting his breeder. I do know that Diane bred his dam, but allowed the new owners to name her. So we can't totally write Diane out of the picture . . . her lines and breeding helped to create the beautiful dog (along with alot of luck from heaven).
Many beautiful dogs influenced the genetics on this boy . . . congrats to everyone who has a dog in his pedigree!
As for the controversy, I have not had the pleasure of meeting his breeder. I do know that Diane bred his dam, but allowed the new owners to name her. So we can't totally write Diane out of the picture . . . her lines and breeding helped to create the beautiful dog (along with alot of luck from heaven).
Many beautiful dogs influenced the genetics on this boy . . . congrats to everyone who has a dog in his pedigree!
Did anyone say to "totally write Diane out of the picture?" I guess some feel that the OB is written out of the picture.
I DON'T THINK ANYONE WAS INTENDING TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM THE OWNER. I HAVE READ THREADS HERE BEFORE THAT CRITICIZED PEOPLE FOR NOT GIVING SOME CREDIT TO THE BREEDER AS WELL AS THE OWNER AND HANDLER. IT SEEMS THE EASY POINT IS TO GIVE CREDIT TO ALL.
To the poster that seems to have a problem on females placed with pet families - why do you think this is a problem? If we could find someone we trusted enough to take a puppy, raise her, give her all the individual attention she deserves and let us breed her to go on with the pedigree, that would be the option we would use. MANY breeders do this. It's a fabulous idea. Best for the animal. Saves trying to find homes for retired girls at 6 or 7.
Congratulations to RJ and all his connections! A BISX2 is quite an accomplishment.
100% correct!!!!! Saves a breeder from having to keep a kennel full and provides great loving homes for those dogs where they will receive individual and loving attention. If they do indeed grade out to be show potential, they are then shown or bred to produce the next generation of quality show dogs.
The biggest draw back to this idea is that not many people can not work together on co-ownerships and at times top breeders are hesitant to place the top quality puppies on these arrangements.
I don't see what the big deal is. The breeder is listed in the catalog of every show RJ is in.
D Mahoney. Not a big breeder.......possibly someone Diane sold a dog to and they later decided to breed her back to CH Casbar's Mister Debonaire CGC RN. RJ was possibly a stud fee puppy. So was the legendary Dickendall Arnold. Diane deserves most of the credit but cudos to D Mahoney.
Thank you for the information, but I find it weird that I couldn't find any official OFA reports on his Dam. The Casbar website only provides prelim verification.
Thank you for the information, but I find it weird that I couldn't find any official OFA reports on his Dam. The Casbar website only provides prelim verification.
Sounds like a ditch digger above. OFA is not the "end all" nor the solution to joint conditions. Once you have been a real breeder for any length of time you will come to fully understand the preceding.
Diane bred his dam. Sold her to a novice owner, someone who really wanted to show and breed. Diane mentored her.
Unfortunately, she has a severely handicap child, which put her dreams on hold. This new person is not active in the dog world and simply owns RJ's mother as a beautiful pet at this time.
She did have her finals, I have copies of those as I have bred to RJ.
Diane bred the litter, kept RJ, the rest of the litter belonged to the dam's owner, however, I do believe Diane placed every one of those puppies for the breeder.
The owner of the dam, IE RJ's breeder is not active, has not seen a single post on Wiscoy, doesn't even know what Wiscoy is. She maintains a friendly contact with Diane, although they speak maybe once a year.
As for singling out the fact that the breeder is not mentioned on RJ's website . . . the breeder does not wish to be mentioned. I know this, as I am the web mistress for Casbar.
Maybe we should just drop it, as it is very clear that Sharlene is either a very close friend of Diane's or whatever.
Sharlene - Well put definitely - but yes I agree you have no reason to tell all these jealous individuals the life story of Diane. The people that matter probably know the details, and the people that dont, dont need ot.
I agree you have no reason to tell all these jealous individuals the life story of Diane.
Oh for heaven's sake, why is it that whenever anyone disagrees about a dog or a win some ninny jumps up and claims it is jealousy. People disagree for many many many other reasons than jealousy. My goodness if jealousy were the reason for disagreement than that would make Rush Limbough the most jealous person in America!
I agree you have no reason to tell all these jealous individuals the life story of Diane.
Oh for heaven's sake, why is it that whenever anyone disagrees about a dog or a win some ninny jumps up and claims it is jealousy. People disagree for many many many other reasons than jealousy. My goodness if jealousy were the reason for disagreement than that would make Rush Limbough the most jealous person in America!
........will get you a lot in this sport!
Yes, it's a ton of work and it takes a halfway decent dog, but really at that level it's who has the most $$$$$$ to spend on the most political handler.
Jan
Way to go to Team RJ!
It takes a ton of work to get a dog its American & Canadian championship - but to add to that 11 BIS's, 3 BISS's and multiple Group 1's - Spectacular!
If we could find someone we trusted enough to take a puppy, raise her, give her all the individual attention she deserves and let us breed her to go on with the pedigree, that would be the option we would use. MANY breeders do this. It's a fabulous idea. Best for the animal. Saves trying to find homes for retired girls at 6 or 7.
I agree 100% with Gail. My breeding program works this way, and if you study a little bit, you will find out that the best long time breeders do it, I prefer to place a bitch with a friend that will love her and take care of her, and when the time comes, I am in charge of breeding her (everything involved), she still is in my breeding program just not living with me, her pedigree continues with me, with a little luck a puppy like RJ comes out, it is my breeding, I did everyhing, like in this case (RJ), if the bitch is under my friends name the breeder is Jane Doe, if she is under both names the breeders are Jane Doe and me. Everybody does it.
In this case, the owner of RJ is also the breeder, not in paper, but she is the breeder, period.
How do you know who did all the work in this case? Are you a personal friend?
I know of some breeders who sell a bitch full price, sometimes more. The pet family breeds the bitch according to the breeders contract. Pet family pays all breeding expenses, whelps litters, raises litters then original breeder swoops in and takes puppies when ready to go home.
Doesn't seem quite equal to me?
I can see giving a bitch at no cost to a someone trusted and taking her back to your home for a breeding. You pay all expenses and do all the work.
That I can totally see.
The other way just seems like a cash cow to me?
Am I wrong?
Foreign in love with USA
Gail Shearer
Dear *,
If we could find someone we trusted enough to take a puppy, raise her, give her all the individual attention she deserves and let us breed her to go on with the pedigree, that would be the option we would use. MANY breeders do this. It's a fabulous idea. Best for the animal. Saves trying to find homes for retired girls at 6 or 7.
I agree 100% with Gail. My breeding program works this way, and if you study a little bit, you will find out that the best long time breeders do it, I prefer to place a bitch with a friend that will love her and take care of her, and when the time comes, I am in charge of breeding her (everything involved), she still is in my breeding program just not living with me, her pedigree continues with me, with a little luck a puppy like RJ comes out, it is my breeding, I did everyhing, like in this case (RJ), if the bitch is under my friends name the breeder is Jane Doe, if she is under both names the breeders are Jane Doe and me. Everybody does it.
In this case, the owner of RJ is also the breeder, not in paper, but she is the breeder, period.
Hey, guys--It's me, who asked the first question. I just wanted to suggest that the breeder of record get equal credit. Didn't mean to start a sand storm. Let's all chill out!
Congrats and kudos to team RJ. He's a fabulous boy and well deserving of the accolades. Please don't let the lurking green-eyed monsters diminish your accomplishment.
Best to you and yours
LRM
I agree you have no reason to tell all these jealous individuals the life story of Diane.
Oh for heaven's sake, why is it that whenever anyone disagrees about a dog or a win some ninny jumps up and claims it is jealousy. People disagree for many many many other reasons than jealousy. My goodness if jealousy were the reason for disagreement than that would make Rush Limbough the most jealous person in America!
Yup! We all don't like the same dogs and don't have to just because they win or don't. It's not all jealousy, there is different taste breeders and judges have. Why else would some of you ask what different judges put up before showing to them?
I agree you have no reason to tell all these jealous individuals the life story of Diane.
Oh for heaven's sake, why is it that whenever anyone disagrees about a dog or a win some ninny jumps up and claims it is jealousy. People disagree for many many many other reasons than jealousy. My goodness if jealousy were the reason for disagreement than that would make Rush Limbough the most jealous person in America!
Yup! We all don't like the same dogs and don't have to just because they win or don't. It's not all jealousy, there is different taste breeders and judges have. Why else would some of you ask what different judges put up before showing to them?
Exactly, but why do you need to voice your dislike publicly? Didn't your mother ever teach you if you don't have something nice to say don't say it at all. I am sure if this was not an anon forum, you would not have the courage to say any of these things. Better yet, if you feel so strongly why not ask these questions or say these comments to the owner's or handler's face the next time you see her.
Who cares ? Just don't breed to the dog ! Your choice.
Exactly, if you are so worried about her clearences, don't use him.
Oh, by the way, the owner is the breder, like it or not, she was the brain in that litter.
Who cares ? Just don't breed to the dog ! Your choice.
I don't think that is why people were questioning several things. I wasn't and don't really care, it's not my dog but why is the fan club so defensive? The breeder should be able to handle questions. If she does not want to, maybe letting the subject die off would have been better solution.
Too many, including a web mistress as she calls herself, are telling life stories that really isn't anyone's business. Blame them for feeding the frenzy along with the people that congratulate only this dog for his wins. Lots of dogs win every week but don't get the same hype from these people.
I never knew who he was until I began reading this list where the same fan club congratulates every single win. Maybe private email would be sufficient, then people won't be looking into the doings of the breeder. It get's old after awhile. That's my opinion FWIW.
This is an open forum where anyone can post whatever they want as long as the abide by the rules.
Just as you have expressed your opinion, so can all those "fans" of RJ, BJ CJ or any other combination of letters with J or whatever!!!!!
Who are you to limit anyone that wants to express a congratulations? You don't have to read them or answer them. Get on with your life already.
Actually, I have found this whole thread very entertaning to say the least!!
I have been watching the 'train wreck in progress' from the side lines since it began.
Where else can you get a live freak show like this!??
It's better than prime time!!!!!!!!
JAM
Breeder
Who cares ? Just don't breed to the dog ! Your choice.
I don't think that is why people were questioning several things. I wasn't and don't really care, it's not my dog but why is the fan club so defensive? The breeder should be able to handle questions. If she does not want to, maybe letting the subject die off would have been better solution.
Too many, including a web mistress as she calls herself, are telling life stories that really isn't anyone's business. Blame them for feeding the frenzy along with the people that congratulate only this dog for his wins. Lots of dogs win every week but don't get the same hype from these people.
I never knew who he was until I began reading this list where the same fan club congratulates every single win. Maybe private email would be sufficient, then people won't be looking into the doings of the breeder. It get's old after awhile. That's my opinion FWIW.