Labrador Retriever Forum

General Forum
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
Back-to-back BIS!!

BIG Congratulations to RJ, Joy & Diane for wining back to back Best in Shows in Springfield!!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

BIG congrats to Diane, Joy and RJ

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Woo hoo...RJ, Diane and Joy!!! Congratulations!!!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

why doesn't anyone ever congratulate (or say anything about) his breeder???

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Who is RJ's breeder?

CURIOUS
why doesn't anyone ever congratulate (or say anything about) his breeder???

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

isnt the fact that people are happy for the dog winning enough? You might as well expect us to name off every person who has had their hands on the dog since birth.

The breeder knows they did well, do they need that constant pat on the back, I doubt it.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

CURIOUS
why doesn't anyone ever congratulate (or say anything about) his breeder???


Why do you feel the need to start trouble? Do you know the 'breeder' personally? I doubt it since she is not in labs. Casbar's Hart to Hart is at least 5 generations of Casbar. Just because the owner Diane Ammerman is not the breeder on record does not mean that RJ is not a product of her hard work over the past 30 years to develop her lines.

Just be happy for your fellow Labrador on a great accomplishment of 11 best in shows at only age 3!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

That's not true. If you look at the pedigree on the web site you can see that only 1/4 of the pedigree is Casbar. Should we be congratulating the breeders of the other 3/4 too?
Why does someone always have to start trouble?


huh?
CURIOUS
why doesn't anyone ever congratulate (or say anything about) his breeder???


Why do you feel the need to start trouble? Do you know the 'breeder' personally? I doubt it since she is not in labs. Casbar's Hart to Hart is at least 5 generations of Casbar. Just because the owner Diane Ammerman is not the breeder on record does not mean that RJ is not a product of her hard work over the past 30 years to develop her lines.

Just be happy for your fellow Labrador on a great accomplishment of 11 best in shows at only age 3!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

I wasn't going to post, because everyone always starts stuff up when RJ wins! Part of the pedigree in there is one of my girls, do I care, no!! It took a whole pedigree to produce this top winning dog, lets be happy that there is a lab out there winning BIS!!!
I think it is wonderful, congrats to RJ, Joy, Diane and everyone that owned a dog in his pedigree-hows that!!!! Let give credit were credit is due, you don't have to like the dog or any association with him, fact is people, he's a top winning LABRADOR!!!
If your really in it for the breed be "HAPPY" for the dog and owner!!!!!!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

I don't understand where some of you people come from!

You have a GREAT dog, a GREAT handler, and a GREAT breeder. What more do you want? They must be doing something right.

Congratulations to RJ, Diane and Joy. You done good.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Breeder annon
That's not true. If you look at the pedigree on the web site you can see that only 1/4 of the pedigree is Casbar. Should we be congratulating the breeders of the other 3/4 too?
Why does someone always have to start trouble?


huh?
CURIOUS
why doesn't anyone ever congratulate (or say anything about) his breeder???


Why do you feel the need to start trouble? Do you know the 'breeder' personally? I doubt it since she is not in labs. Casbar's Hart to Hart is at least 5 generations of Casbar. Just because the owner Diane Ammerman is not the breeder on record does not mean that RJ is not a product of her hard work over the past 30 years to develop her lines.

Just be happy for your fellow Labrador on a great accomplishment of 11 best in shows at only age 3!


I don't see anyone starting trouble. Friends of mine that co-own with the OB (original breeder) and appreciate it, always mention the breeder. I give kudos to everyone whether I bred the dog or I co-own with the OB. The breeder of the dog will always be mentioned when I discuss my winning dogs that I haven't bred. I am grateful to have a special dog that their hard work went into even if the pedigree has my kennel name in it. Some of you apparently don't feel the same, you're allowed to but let us not get so dramatic.

Why are some of you getting disturbed by someone asking? Don't all breeders deserve credit? I don't know who the breeder is of this dog. If the owner doesn't want to mention or post it, that's their business but don't be surprised that some breeders find that to be peculiar manners. I wouldn't like it if I bred the dog. I also would be hesitant to place again with someone that didn't mention me as the breeder even once in a little while. I always do because everyone deserves credit and I've received mine also.

My point is, are the owner and handler so much more deserving than the breeder?

Congratulations.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Congrats to Diane, Joy & RJ!

As for the controversy, I have not had the pleasure of meeting his breeder. I do know that Diane bred his dam, but allowed the new owners to name her. So we can't totally write Diane out of the picture . . . her lines and breeding helped to create the beautiful dog (along with alot of luck from heaven).

Many beautiful dogs influenced the genetics on this boy . . . congrats to everyone who has a dog in his pedigree!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Sharlene
Congrats to Diane, Joy & RJ!

As for the controversy, I have not had the pleasure of meeting his breeder. I do know that Diane bred his dam, but allowed the new owners to name her. So we can't totally write Diane out of the picture . . . her lines and breeding helped to create the beautiful dog (along with alot of luck from heaven).

Many beautiful dogs influenced the genetics on this boy . . . congrats to everyone who has a dog in his pedigree!


Did anyone say to "totally write Diane out of the picture?" I guess some feel that the OB is written out of the picture.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

I DON'T THINK ANYONE WAS INTENDING TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM THE OWNER. I HAVE READ THREADS HERE BEFORE THAT CRITICIZED PEOPLE FOR NOT GIVING SOME CREDIT TO THE BREEDER AS WELL AS THE OWNER AND HANDLER. IT SEEMS THE EASY POINT IS TO GIVE CREDIT TO ALL.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Wow, Diane!!

Congrats on this wonderful boy.

You know, he has had my heart since a babe.

Betty

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Glad to see you have not changed over time, Claudia. I agree and ditto, ditto, ditto.

Negative comments equal jealousy to me.

Betty

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

That's piling it on a tad thick don't you think??

Sharlene
. . . her lines and breeding helped to create the beautiful dog (along with alot of luck from heaven).

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING ???????????????

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Who's RJ?

How about posting the registered name.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

lol
Who's RJ?

How about posting the registered name.


Casbar's Hart to Hart owned by Diane Ammerman of Casbar Labradors.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Who is the breeder anyway? Kind of condescending to say she's not into Labs. Apparently she was into Labs enough to produce a winner like RJ!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

You know how some breeders farm out puppies to pet families and insist they are bred and take back several puppies from them?

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Wonder why there is no mention of his breeder on his web page?
http://www.casbarlabs.com/Boys-CHCasbarsHarttoHart.html

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Dear *,

To the poster that seems to have a problem on females placed with pet families - why do you think this is a problem? If we could find someone we trusted enough to take a puppy, raise her, give her all the individual attention she deserves and let us breed her to go on with the pedigree, that would be the option we would use. MANY breeders do this. It's a fabulous idea. Best for the animal. Saves trying to find homes for retired girls at 6 or 7.

Congratulations to RJ and all his connections! A BISX2 is quite an accomplishment.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

WHO IS THE BREEDER??, what's the the big deal that Casbar doesn't want to say the name of the breeder, insecure????

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Anyone seen RJ's video on You Tube?

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

100% correct!!!!! Saves a breeder from having to keep a kennel full and provides great loving homes for those dogs where they will receive individual and loving attention. If they do indeed grade out to be show potential, they are then shown or bred to produce the next generation of quality show dogs.
The biggest draw back to this idea is that not many people can not work together on co-ownerships and at times top breeders are hesitant to place the top quality puppies on these arrangements.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

I don't see what the big deal is. The breeder is listed in the catalog of every show RJ is in.
D Mahoney. Not a big breeder.......possibly someone Diane sold a dog to and they later decided to breed her back to CH Casbar's Mister Debonaire CGC RN. RJ was possibly a stud fee puppy. So was the legendary Dickendall Arnold. Diane deserves most of the credit but cudos to D Mahoney.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

Thank you for the information, but I find it weird that I couldn't find any official OFA reports on his Dam. The Casbar website only provides prelim verification.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

??
Thank you for the information, but I find it weird that I couldn't find any official OFA reports on his Dam. The Casbar website only provides prelim verification.


Sounds like a ditch digger above. OFA is not the "end all" nor the solution to joint conditions. Once you have been a real breeder for any length of time you will come to fully understand the preceding.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

Yes, I'm showing my inexperience here, but hardly a ditch digger.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

Diane bred his dam. Sold her to a novice owner, someone who really wanted to show and breed. Diane mentored her.

Unfortunately, she has a severely handicap child, which put her dreams on hold. This new person is not active in the dog world and simply owns RJ's mother as a beautiful pet at this time.

She did have her finals, I have copies of those as I have bred to RJ.

Diane bred the litter, kept RJ, the rest of the litter belonged to the dam's owner, however, I do believe Diane placed every one of those puppies for the breeder.

The owner of the dam, IE RJ's breeder is not active, has not seen a single post on Wiscoy, doesn't even know what Wiscoy is. She maintains a friendly contact with Diane, although they speak maybe once a year.

As for singling out the fact that the breeder is not mentioned on RJ's website . . . the breeder does not wish to be mentioned. I know this, as I am the web mistress for Casbar.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

although Sharlene did a great job with details
I dont think it was necessary or anyone business about this womens life.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

lll -- you made an excellent point.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

Wonder why they can't be found on OFA? Maybe she has PennHip?

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

Bc this Sharlene has no clue what she's talking about

Breeder
Wonder why they can't be found on OFA? Maybe she has PennHip?

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

Maybe we should just drop it, as it is very clear that Sharlene is either a very close friend of Diane's or whatever.

Sharlene - Well put definitely - but yes I agree you have no reason to tell all these jealous individuals the life story of Diane. The people that matter probably know the details, and the people that dont, dont need ot.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

blah
I agree you have no reason to tell all these jealous individuals the life story of Diane.


Oh for heaven's sake, why is it that whenever anyone disagrees about a dog or a win some ninny jumps up and claims it is jealousy. People disagree for many many many other reasons than jealousy. My goodness if jealousy were the reason for disagreement than that would make Rush Limbough the most jealous person in America!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

and the highest paid one!!! LOL

Give me a break
blah
I agree you have no reason to tell all these jealous individuals the life story of Diane.


Oh for heaven's sake, why is it that whenever anyone disagrees about a dog or a win some ninny jumps up and claims it is jealousy. People disagree for many many many other reasons than jealousy. My goodness if jealousy were the reason for disagreement than that would make Rush Limbough the most jealous person in America!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Way to go to Team RJ!

It takes a ton of work to get a dog its American & Canadian championship - but to add to that 11 BIS's, 3 BISS's and multiple Group 1's - Spectacular!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

OH, COME ON !!!!

You people absolutely slay me ... let's look for a scandal everywhere ....... YEEEESH

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

[WHO IS THE BREEDER??, what's the the big deal that Casbar doesn't want to say the name of the breeder, insecure????ote=Clearly Canadian]

OH, COME ON !!!!

You people absolutely slay me ... let's look for a scandal everywhere ....... YEEEESH[/quote]

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

........will get you a lot in this sport!
Yes, it's a ton of work and it takes a halfway decent dog, but really at that level it's who has the most $$$$$$ to spend on the most political handler.


Jan
Way to go to Team RJ!

It takes a ton of work to get a dog its American & Canadian championship - but to add to that 11 BIS's, 3 BISS's and multiple Group 1's - Spectacular!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

THANK YOU to Sharlene for being the voice of reason in the absurd string of comments ...

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Gail Shearer
Dear *,

If we could find someone we trusted enough to take a puppy, raise her, give her all the individual attention she deserves and let us breed her to go on with the pedigree, that would be the option we would use. MANY breeders do this. It's a fabulous idea. Best for the animal. Saves trying to find homes for retired girls at 6 or 7.


I agree 100% with Gail. My breeding program works this way, and if you study a little bit, you will find out that the best long time breeders do it, I prefer to place a bitch with a friend that will love her and take care of her, and when the time comes, I am in charge of breeding her (everything involved), she still is in my breeding program just not living with me, her pedigree continues with me, with a little luck a puppy like RJ comes out, it is my breeding, I did everyhing, like in this case (RJ), if the bitch is under my friends name the breeder is Jane Doe, if she is under both names the breeders are Jane Doe and me. Everybody does it.
In this case, the owner of RJ is also the breeder, not in paper, but she is the breeder, period.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

How do you know who did all the work in this case? Are you a personal friend?
I know of some breeders who sell a bitch full price, sometimes more. The pet family breeds the bitch according to the breeders contract. Pet family pays all breeding expenses, whelps litters, raises litters then original breeder swoops in and takes puppies when ready to go home.
Doesn't seem quite equal to me?
I can see giving a bitch at no cost to a someone trusted and taking her back to your home for a breeding. You pay all expenses and do all the work.
That I can totally see.
The other way just seems like a cash cow to me?
Am I wrong?

Foreign in love with USA
Gail Shearer
Dear *,

If we could find someone we trusted enough to take a puppy, raise her, give her all the individual attention she deserves and let us breed her to go on with the pedigree, that would be the option we would use. MANY breeders do this. It's a fabulous idea. Best for the animal. Saves trying to find homes for retired girls at 6 or 7.


I agree 100% with Gail. My breeding program works this way, and if you study a little bit, you will find out that the best long time breeders do it, I prefer to place a bitch with a friend that will love her and take care of her, and when the time comes, I am in charge of breeding her (everything involved), she still is in my breeding program just not living with me, her pedigree continues with me, with a little luck a puppy like RJ comes out, it is my breeding, I did everyhing, like in this case (RJ), if the bitch is under my friends name the breeder is Jane Doe, if she is under both names the breeders are Jane Doe and me. Everybody does it.
In this case, the owner of RJ is also the breeder, not in paper, but she is the breeder, period.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Hey, guys--It's me, who asked the first question. I just wanted to suggest that the breeder of record get equal credit. Didn't mean to start a sand storm. Let's all chill out!

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Congrats and kudos to team RJ. He's a fabulous boy and well deserving of the accolades. Please don't let the lurking green-eyed monsters diminish your accomplishment.
Best to you and yours
LRM

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

hmmm...I agree that the whole issue that RJ's dam's clearances cannot be located on the OFA website is somewhat puzzling.

I have a copy of the clearance in front of me. I just put it down to input error on part of the OFA?

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

they are prelims and those dont show up unless you sign to share negative results

Sharlene
hmmm...I agree that the whole issue that RJ's dam's clearances cannot be located on the OFA website is somewhat puzzling.

I have a copy of the clearance in front of me. I just put it down to input error on part of the OFA?

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

Give me a break
blah
I agree you have no reason to tell all these jealous individuals the life story of Diane.


Oh for heaven's sake, why is it that whenever anyone disagrees about a dog or a win some ninny jumps up and claims it is jealousy. People disagree for many many many other reasons than jealousy. My goodness if jealousy were the reason for disagreement than that would make Rush Limbough the most jealous person in America!


Yup! We all don't like the same dogs and don't have to just because they win or don't. It's not all jealousy, there is different taste breeders and judges have. Why else would some of you ask what different judges put up before showing to them?

Re: Back-to-back BIS!! Breeder

bdr
Give me a break
blah
I agree you have no reason to tell all these jealous individuals the life story of Diane.


Oh for heaven's sake, why is it that whenever anyone disagrees about a dog or a win some ninny jumps up and claims it is jealousy. People disagree for many many many other reasons than jealousy. My goodness if jealousy were the reason for disagreement than that would make Rush Limbough the most jealous person in America!



Yup! We all don't like the same dogs and don't have to just because they win or don't. It's not all jealousy, there is different taste breeders and judges have. Why else would some of you ask what different judges put up before showing to them?


Exactly, but why do you need to voice your dislike publicly? Didn't your mother ever teach you if you don't have something nice to say don't say it at all. I am sure if this was not an anon forum, you would not have the courage to say any of these things. Better yet, if you feel so strongly why not ask these questions or say these comments to the owner's or handler's face the next time you see her.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Sharlene
hmmm...I agree that the whole issue that RJ's dam's clearances cannot be located on the OFA website is somewhat puzzling.

I have a copy of the clearance in front of me. I just put it down to input error on part of the OFA?


Look at it closely. It is probably her prelims you are looking at. That is because that is all she has.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Who cares ? Just don't breed to the dog ! Your choice.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Breeder
Who cares ? Just don't breed to the dog ! Your choice.


Exactly, if you are so worried about her clearences, don't use him.
Oh, by the way, the owner is the breder, like it or not, she was the brain in that litter.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Breeder
Who cares ? Just don't breed to the dog ! Your choice.


I don't think that is why people were questioning several things. I wasn't and don't really care, it's not my dog but why is the fan club so defensive? The breeder should be able to handle questions. If she does not want to, maybe letting the subject die off would have been better solution.

Too many, including a web mistress as she calls herself, are telling life stories that really isn't anyone's business. Blame them for feeding the frenzy along with the people that congratulate only this dog for his wins. Lots of dogs win every week but don't get the same hype from these people.

I never knew who he was until I began reading this list where the same fan club congratulates every single win. Maybe private email would be sufficient, then people won't be looking into the doings of the breeder. It get's old after awhile. That's my opinion FWIW.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

This is an open forum where anyone can post whatever they want as long as the abide by the rules.
Just as you have expressed your opinion, so can all those "fans" of RJ, BJ CJ or any other combination of letters with J or whatever!!!!!
Who are you to limit anyone that wants to express a congratulations? You don't have to read them or answer them. Get on with your life already.

Re: Back-to-back BIS!!

Actually, I have found this whole thread very entertaning to say the least!!
I have been watching the 'train wreck in progress' from the side lines since it began.
Where else can you get a live freak show like this!??
It's better than prime time!!!!!!!!

JAM
Breeder
Who cares ? Just don't breed to the dog ! Your choice.


I don't think that is why people were questioning several things. I wasn't and don't really care, it's not my dog but why is the fan club so defensive? The breeder should be able to handle questions. If she does not want to, maybe letting the subject die off would have been better solution.

Too many, including a web mistress as she calls herself, are telling life stories that really isn't anyone's business. Blame them for feeding the frenzy along with the people that congratulate only this dog for his wins. Lots of dogs win every week but don't get the same hype from these people.

I never knew who he was until I began reading this list where the same fan club congratulates every single win. Maybe private email would be sufficient, then people won't be looking into the doings of the breeder. It get's old after awhile. That's my opinion FWIW.