Labrador Retriever Forum
http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Breeds/LabradorRetriever
No need to go look there. It's simple.
UKC Lab Standard, defined:
Tall, weedy, fieldy dogs are welcome, proper dogs need not apply.
Front and rear - we won't notice it anyway.
Movement - dog must make it from gate to to line up
Snipey heads - A-OK.
Serious lack in bone - not a problem. We don't know the difference!
Coats - prefer shiny, single and soft.
Tails - prefer if they have one.
Teeth - should have most of them.
Top Lines - flat, straight, dippy or sway, we won't penalize it any way!
Temperament - should be great pet.
Shame on you! Just because you don't want to play in their sandbox, doesn't mean you have to spoil their fun. I know of numerous people who participate in UKC that have very nice dogs. No body is perfect, and I've certainly seen dogs put up in AKC that I wouldn't have put up either. geesh.
UKC Lab Standard, defined:
Tall, weedy, fieldy dogs are welcome, proper dogs need not apply.
Front and rear - we won't notice it anyway.
Movement - dog must make it from gate to to line up
Snipey heads - A-OK.
Serious lack in bone - not a problem. We don't know the difference!
Coats - prefer shiny, single and soft.
Tails - prefer if they have one.
Teeth - should have most of them.
Top Lines - flat, straight, dippy or sway, we won't penalize it any way!
Temperament - should be great pet.
I have seen some very nice dogs compete at UKC events. In doing so does not mean the competitors dogs are of a lesser quality. It's simply a different venue to compete in. Let's try to be kind....
I am sure that some nice dogs DO compete in UKC shows.
I did not say that all the dogs lack of merit.
The point was, many ARE of poor quality and yet they are still rewarded UKC CH's, and very easily too!!
And poor quality dogs are rewarded in AKC too, just depends on who's on the other end of the leash. The award goes to the breeder handler or the professional handler, when there were clearly dogs in the ring of better merit.
Shame on you for being such a bitch. The UKC is what you make of it. In our area, we have a wonderful group of dogs who are also pointed in AKC, but their owners are looking for more real time ring practice.
Please don't join UKC. We emphasize good sportsmanship.
In fact, as someone who competes regularly in both registries (with the same dogs), I wish you would take
your embarrassing attitude to some other kind of competition entirely--perhaps the WWF would be a suitable venue.
OP.....I think an analysis of the Standard would be fun. Why not start another thread, post the standard and not just the link (for us lazy people), and specifically request analysis of the standard only??? I think if you ask people to stay focused on that specific thing, the request will be respected. No need for us to be distracted by other discussions such as the quality of dogs participating in UKC, etc. Analysis of the standard alone is a good idea. If an occasional Bozo comments otherwise, we will just ignore them.
OK, let me give it a try. Many interesting differences and similarities with the AKC standard. But the standard is long for one post so I'll break the Standard into smaller bits.
on another thread, as "just me" requested.
Shame on you for being such a bitch. The UKC is what you make of it. In our area, we have a wonderful group of dogs who are also pointed in AKC, but their owners are looking for more real time ring practice.
I would be willing to bet that the people who knock the UKC are the ones who can't handle a dog to save their life. 
Why would you say that?
Curious where that analogy came from because I don't see anything in the thread relating to handing, one way or another?
I find it ironic that the posts far below on the UKC standard have yet to be "discussed" other than one post by one person who is probably the OP talking to herself.
Fact is, no one cares. Get the hint already!
Here's an idea. Start your own UKC Labrador forum.
That way you can be sure anyone reading it really wants to hear about it. You won't have put up with the UKC bashers and the same goes for them, they won't have to deal with you!
See there, everyone will be happy!
"See there, everyone will be happy!"
Except for you of course!!!!! 
Curious where that analogy came from because I don't see anything in the thread relating to handing, one way or another?
I find it ironic that the posts far below on the UKC standard have yet to be "discussed" other than one post by one person who is probably the OP talking to herself.
Fact is, no one cares. Get the hint already!
Here's an idea. Start your own UKC Labrador forum.
That way you can be sure anyone reading it really wants to hear about it. You won't have put up with the UKC bashers and the same goes for them, they won't have to deal with you!
See there, everyone will be happy!
Who said this was a forum for only AKC?
Actually my question was in regards to the comment about handling capabilities, not a question about if this forum was just for AKC.
But I guess the off color remark about handling skills doesn't have any substantiation since the poster couldn't back it up.
The suggestion I made about a UKC forum was a gesture in response to the fact that it's obvious no one here cares about UKC by the lack of responses to the "standard" thread.
Just suggested you go somewhere where those who might be willing to discuss UKC can do so.
Here is obviously not the place.
That's it. Plain and simple.
Get over yourself.
Curious where that analogy came from because I don't see anything in the thread relating to handing, one way or another?
I would suspect the reference to handling is because UKC prohibits professional handlers (anyone who accepts remuneration of any kind) from showing dogs unless they are the owner or co-owner of record. I would think that those who always pay a pro to show their dog in AKC shows aren't likely to enter their dog in a UKC event partly for this reason unless they can find a friend or junior willing to show the dog for free for them.
But I guess the off color remark about handling skills doesn't have any substantiation since the poster couldn't back it up.
The suggestion I made about a UKC forum was a gesture in response to the fact that it's obvious no one here cares about UKC by the lack of responses to the "standard" thread.
Just suggested you go somewhere where those who might be willing to discuss UKC can do so.
Here is obviously not the place.
That's it. Plain and simple.
Get over yourself.
Just because you are not interested does not mean others aren't. And if you are so uninterested why do you keep posting on this thread? Please "Clarify"?
Oh and by the way I really meant to post my response on the other 30 threads on here about UKC, but no one is really interested?????????
I find it ironic that the posts far below on the UKC standard have yet to be "discussed" other than one post by one person who is probably the OP talking to herself.
Fact is, no one cares. Get the hint already!
Here's an idea. Start your own UKC Labrador forum.
That way you can be sure anyone reading it really wants to hear about it. You won't have put up with the UKC bashers and the same goes for them, they won't have to deal with you!
A UKC forum already exists--quite a pleasant place where people post their names. One of the very nicest parts of UKC is the good sportsmanship and positive attitude. UKC Lab registrations are growing, and competition is becoming quite good. In fact, most of the UKC exhibitors are also AKC exhibitors--and that is why we even know about this forum.
Where is the UKC forum?
Lab club members communicate through email, but you must become a member of the club to participate.
UKC has moderated "message boards" in which you must register and post your name. Dog Events and Retrieving Hunters are two message boards. Follow the links at the website www.ukcdogs.com
Right. I doubt that. UKC Ch is incredibly easy to obtain. You could put a monkey on the lead and still finish in one weekend. 
To Clarify,
You care. You spent the time to write a 5 paragraph post. Too Funny cares too. Someone would not write something with the intent of being insulting without some level of emotion on the subject. Many other people seem to care enough, though mostly negative, to keep this thread alive. If people didn't care, the thread would go away.
I do not know much about the UKC, nor am I really all that interested. But, for you all to care so much as to write these posts there must be something to it..... makes me think it is worth investigating. You would not be this defensive without a reason.
Quote from Clarify?:
"Fact is, no one cares. Get the hint already!"
Quote from Too Funny:
"UKC Ch is incredibly easy to obtain. You could put a monkey on the lead and still finish in one weekend."
Glad you can spell 'paragraphs', "Neutral Observer". Did you have to use all your fingers to count and still not get it right?
By the way, your lack of a grasp for the English language and poor spelling skills give your identity away every time.
I guess I struck a nerve. But I do have two questions.
1) How do you spell "paragraph"?
2) Who do you think I am?
I guess I have 3 questions.
3) Why are you so threatened by the UKC? In all sincerity, I thought their shows are kind of like matches. Lots of fun and sometimes good quality. But like I said, that is just what I've heard and don't know first hand. For the life of me I can't imagine how people having some fun with their dogs bothers you so much??? What is it that I don't understand (besides how to spell or formulate a proper sentence)?
The level of hostility by the one nasty person on this thread makes me think that she entered a UKC show and did not win. I personally know at least two people who came to UKC shows, did not win, and then badmouthed UKC. And nearly every show I hear some unhappy person complaining because the UKC judge did not put up their dogs who won thus and so in AKC.
UKC shows are not matches in preparation for AKC shows either. I have shown dogs who already have their AKC championships. And sometimes these dogs have the most difficulty finishing in UKC--at least until I take off some weight.
Some really beautiful Labs capable of being called Total Dogs enter UKC and compete not only for Grand Champion and Top 10 but also performance events.
And many of the UKC judges are also AKC judges. They judge to the UKC Standard, which is similar to the AKC Standard (with some important differences such as the lack of DQ for height). There is a education program in which judges can learn how to judge Labs, developed by a person who is both an AKC and UKC Lab breeder and judge.
But if you come to a UKC show, please don't brag
about how well your dog did at AKC if you lose at UKC. Poor sportsmanship.
While I don't deny that finishing a UKC Ch isn't relatively easy, it's no "gimmee" either. I have seen a fair share of dogs show up, whose owners thought it would be a "walk in the park" to get their CH in a weekend and it didn't happen.
One such dog was an overweight AKC champion. Most UKC judges simply will not tolerate the heavy, overdone Labs that can do well at AKC specialties. I have also seen, on SEVERAL occasions, where a UKC judge had the guts to withhold a ribbon from a Lab obviously lacking in quality. It's been quite a while since I've seen a lanky, field-y Lab do well in UKC. Since the number and quality of Labs competing in UKC events has increased exponentially, it's a lot tougher to get a UKC championship than it used to be.
UKC has an additional conformation title, Grand Champion, which a dog can work towards once it has completed its CH. It is MUCH more difficult to get this title as a dog has to win under more judges and beat more dogs in order to earn this. A UKC GRCH is a better assessment of the quality of a dog than a UKC CH.
UKC's motto is "Our Dogs Do Stuff." As such, I think many of the UKC judges keep this in mind when judging Labs and question whether the Labs they are judging really could go out in the field all day and retrieve birds.
I have Labs who have done well at AKC specialties and have working titles in both AKC and UKC. I enjoy playing at UKC events for their more relaxed atmosphere. Will I give up AKC events, nope. It just gives me another venue in which to exhibit my dogs and meet more people.
You are right on MW UKC fan!!!
I guess what I have seen in looking at different websites is a common pattern of kennels who seem to use UKC as a way to get titles on their dogs that otherwise cannot achieve an AKC title.
Have come across multiple sites that openly compete in both venues equally, yet hold no titles or in many cases, no AKC points but all of their dogs seem to be UKC champions.
If not for lack of trying, what is the reason they are able to "finish" these dogs UKC but not even point them AKC?
To me, it speaks volumes and unfortunately for UKC, it is a bad reflection of the title, the competition and the ease with which a UKC champion is made up.
No bashing here at all, just an honest question.
Have come across multiple sites that openly compete in both venues equally, yet hold no titles or in many cases, no AKC points but all of their dogs seem to be (UKC champions.
(If not for lack of trying, what is the reason they are able to "finish" these dogs UKC but not even point them AKC?
To me, it speaks volumes and unfortunately for UKC, it is a bad reflection of the title, the competition and the ease with which a UKC champion is made up.
No bashing here at all, just an honest question.
Well, let's just turn your question upside down to see if we can see other ways of interpreting what you are saying.
I come across lots of sites in which only AKC titles are listed. Is this because they can't achieve
a UKC title?
I suggest you look at your own prejudgments about the quality of the UKC titles and what they mean to people. A couple of months ago I saw a CH MH competing in UKC for Grand--why do you suppose that dog is competing in UKC?
I already have AKC titles on dogs on whom I am now competing in UKC. In many ways I value the UKC titles more. I can't use a handler to get them. I know that politics don't play a role in them. I have a lot more fun getting them. I meet a lot of really nice people I respect. I like finding out why judges made the choices they did. I even like the feedback that my dogs need to lose a little weight or build up some endurance. I particularly like the emphasis on Total Dog who can "do stuff." And I like spending the day at the dog show talking to fellow breeders about everything under the sun. It's sort of the way AKC used to be before it started on its decline.
I enjoy UKC, plain and simple. And I intended to show all my dogs there even if they have AKC championships.
Well I assumed that is what you would do. Turn my honest question into another question because you are unable to answer it.
Let me ask you. If AKC has had such a "decline" in your opinion, why do you compete there? Why not just stick with UKC?
Or do you realize deep inside that you have to in order to earn respect among your fellow breeders?
I am not saying you should have to choose one or the other. My point was again, why do dogs that can't get AKC Ch's, easily get UKC Ch's?
I also think you are putting your blinders on if you actually think politics never happens in UKC.
Politics is part of life dear. It's everywhere, like it or not.
Have come across multiple sites that openly compete in both venues equally, yet hold no titles or in many cases, no AKC points but all of their dogs seem to be (UKC champions.
(If not for lack of trying, what is the reason they are able to "finish" these dogs UKC but not even point them AKC?
To me, it speaks volumes and unfortunately for UKC, it is a bad reflection of the title, the competition and the ease with which a UKC champion is made up.
No bashing here at all, just an honest question.
Well, let's just turn your question upside down to see if we can see other ways of interpreting what you are saying.
I come across lots of sites in which only AKC titles are listed. Is this because they can't achieve
a UKC title?
I suggest you look at your own prejudgments about the quality of the UKC titles and what they mean to people. A couple of months ago I saw a CH MH competing in UKC for Grand--why do you suppose that dog is competing in UKC?
I already have AKC titles on dogs on whom I am now competing in UKC. In many ways I value the UKC titles more. I can't use a handler to get them. I know that politics don't play a role in them. I have a lot more fun getting them. I meet a lot of really nice people I respect. I like finding out why judges made the choices they did. I even like the feedback that my dogs need to lose a little weight or build up some endurance. I particularly like the emphasis on Total Dog who can "do stuff." And I like spending the day at the dog show talking to fellow breeders about everything under the sun. It's sort of the way AKC used to be before it started on its decline.
I enjoy UKC, plain and simple. And I intended to show all my dogs there even if they have AKC championships.
I think that the quality of the dogs now showing in UKC at least in my area has improved dramatically in the last several years. I won't have even thought of competing there a few years ago because all the labs that I had seen there were not of the quality I thought that they should be, but there are more people that are showing much better quality labs there now. Almost all that I have competed against have been shown in AKC also many are AKC pointed including mine some are AKC CH. We even went Reserve Best In Show.
I think part of the problem then and I guess I am included in this is that I won't have ventured to compete in a venue that was mostly lacking quality, but finally many people with quality dogs are now starting to compete in UKC also, so it has improved.
If the quality of the dogs is not up to the quality that you think it should be that is all the more reason that more people with quality dogs should be competing there so that the quality will go up.
Have come across multiple sites that openly compete in both venues equally, yet hold no titles or in many cases, no AKC points but all of their dogs seem to be UKC champions.
If not for lack of trying, what is the reason they are able to "finish" these dogs UKC but not even point them AKC?
To me, it speaks volumes and unfortunately for UKC, it is a bad reflection of the title, the competition and the ease with which a UKC champion is made up.
No bashing here at all, just an honest question.
I compete with my dogs in UKC because it is FUN. It is that plain and simple. My same dogs compete in AKC and have AKC points and Championships as well. Many people feel the need to down play the UKC and say the dogs are not worthy to make themselves feel better about their own dogs. It is not necessarily about not being able to get a title or a point in AKC, so let's show in the UKC, at least not for me anyway. It is about enjoying the sport of competing at the dog shows. Spending time with my dogs and working to improve on my handling skills. It is about the bond and connection I have with my dogs in the ring and how dog and handler become a team. You lose a piece of what it is really about showing dogs when you hand over some cash to a pro and sit on the side lines. UKC provides a venue where a person can truly enjoy the sport of showing dogs. With AKC it is more like paying for the name, because everyone wants the AKC title. In the UKC you have to go out and participate to get the titles.
Unless I am reading the AKC judges rule book incorrectly it is unethical for an AKC judge to participate in a 'competing' registries events.
Perhaps someone more knowledgeable could shed some light on this??
I think part of the problem then and I guess I am included in this is that I won't have ventured to compete in a venue that was mostly lacking quality, but finally many people with quality dogs are now starting to compete in UKC also, so it has improved.
If the quality of the dogs is not up to the quality that you think it should be that is all the more reason that more people with quality dogs should be competing there so that the quality will go up.
In my area the same labs competing against each other in the AKC shows are also competing against each other in the UKC shows. The quality is certainly there.
Well no one ever said that in order to compete in AKC you have to pay a handler! That's silly!
Yes, there are politics. Yes they come into play sometimes. No, they don't every time, or IMO, even most of the time. But that's sports. You take your lumps along with everything else in life too.
If I am going to spend my money on entries in this ecomony to work to achieve something with my dogs, it sure isn't going to be UKC before AKC.
I understand your point about the quality of dogs in UKC improving or needing to improve more, but I do disagree that I should be spending my hard earned cash in order to improve the quality of dog that competes at UKC shows, when in fact, I don't care
I will continue to spend my $$$ at AKC, compete for my AKC Ch's where most of the time I know the quality of competition will be good and the points will not be easy, and be proud of it!
Have come across multiple sites that openly compete in both venues equally, yet hold no titles or in many cases, no AKC points but all of their dogs seem to be UKC champions.
If not for lack of trying, what is the reason they are able to "finish" these dogs UKC but not even point them AKC?
To me, it speaks volumes and unfortunately for UKC, it is a bad reflection of the title, the competition and the ease with which a UKC champion is made up.
No bashing here at all, just an honest question.
I compete with my dogs in UKC because it is FUN. It is that plain and simple. My same dogs compete in AKC and have AKC points and Championships as well. Many people feel the need to down play the UKC and say the dogs are not worthy to make themselves feel better about their own dogs. It is not necessarily about not being able to get a title or a point in AKC, so let's show in the UKC, at least not for me anyway. It is about enjoying the sport of competing at the dog shows. Spending time with my dogs and working to improve on my handling skills. It is about the bond and connection I have with my dogs in the ring and how dog and handler become a team. You lose a piece of what it is really about showing dogs when you hand over some cash to a pro and sit on the side lines. UKC provides a venue where a person can truly enjoy the sport of showing dogs. With AKC it is more like paying for the name, because everyone wants the AKC title. In the UKC you have to go out and participate to get the titles.
Replying to:
Well no one ever said that in order to compete in AKC you have to pay a handler! That's silly!
Yes, there are politics. Yes they come into play sometimes. No, they don't every time, or IMO, even most of the time. But that's sports. You take your lumps along with everything else in life too.
If I am going to spend my money on entries in this ecomony to work to achieve something with my dogs, it sure isn't going to be UKC before AKC.
I understand your point about the quality of dogs in UKC improving or needing to improve more, but I do disagree that I should be spending my hard earned cash in order to improve the quality of dog that competes at UKC shows, when in fact, I don't care
I will continue to spend my $$$ at AKC, compete for my AKC Ch's where most of the time I know the quality of competition will be good and the points will not be easy, and be proud of it!
Good for you and why don't you just go and do that and stop spoiling everyone elses fun who like to have an alternative to AKC only.
Where am I spoiling anyone's fun???
You are awfully sensitive and apparently reading things that aren't there into my posts.
I asked a question.
It has not been answered.
I would like to have a discussion but you are the one incapable of doing so obviously.
Each time anyone asks a question, the UKC clan tell them to stop spoiling their fun!
You are defensive for a reason and I can only fathom that it's because you know I have a good point!
Well no one ever said that in order to compete in AKC you have to pay a handler! That's silly!
Yes, there are politics. Yes they come into play sometimes. No, they don't every time, or IMO, even most of the time. But that's sports. You take your lumps along with everything else in life too.
If I am going to spend my money on entries in this ecomony to work to achieve something with my dogs, it sure isn't going to be UKC before AKC.
I understand your point about the quality of dogs in UKC improving or needing to improve more, but I do disagree that I should be spending my hard earned cash in order to improve the quality of dog that competes at UKC shows, when in fact, I don't care
I will continue to spend my $$$ at AKC, compete for my AKC Ch's where most of the time I know the quality of competition will be good and the points will not be easy, and be proud of it!
Good for you and why don't you just go and do that and stop spoiling everyone elses fun who like to have an alternative to AKC only.
To invisible, you are the one that is looking for anything and everything possible to find something wrong with the UKC and because you are not getting the responses you want you are upset. If you don't like the UKC or don't think it is up to "your" standards then don't do it. Nobody really cares what you do. Other exhibitors obviously enjoy the UKC and that seems to irritate you. The UKC is what it is and the AKC is what it is and people are free to roam. Just because it is not for you does not mean that others are not enjoying it and that it is not acceptable.
To answer your question, I completely disagree with you. A dog is only as good as the competition it goes up against. If there are mediocre dogs in the AKC ring on any particular day which there can be, does that make it any different than bringing quality dogs into a UKC ring? I think not!
The reason a Labrador in SOME areas of the country can achieve an UKC Ch title very easily is a lack of competition. There are no "majors" that are needed to be sought out. You could earn a champion title by beating one other Labrador, or even by placing in group. But the grand champion title is harder to achieve and I feel as though more comparable to a AKC Ch title. That being said, I personally put the time and effort to obtain the UKC Ch title on my labs and I am proud of that achievement, so why is a crime to post it on my website? I am not trying to dupe anyone to believe I am something bigger then I really am.
We (being UKC breed clubs,exhibitors etc) try to educate the 'public' as best we can about the UKC. We encourage those who have not attended an UKC conformation event to give it a try. I would love to see the entries I see at all breed AKC shows on the east coast be the same at UKC shows!
I have a question for you "invisible". You said
"If not for lack of trying, what is the reason they are able to "finish" these dogs UKC but not even point them AKC?
To me, it speaks volumes and unfortunately for UKC, it is a bad reflection of the title, the competition and the ease with which a UKC champion is made up. "
What about the areas of the country where it is easier to obtain a AKC points? How can you compare a AKC Ch title earned in Division 1 or 2 to an AKC title earned in Division 13, where the competition is different? How can you compare a AKC Ch title dog that was professionally handled by a top handler known for 'winning' to a dog that was novice owner handled or breeder owner handled to its title?
Just as you stated, I am not trying to degrade anyone, their titles or their dogs. I think everyone deserves and should be proud of their AKC and UKC titles! But I think of the competition in the UKC with its smaller entries could be comparable to some of our AKC divisions who have less competition and an easier point scales. I also respect that professional handling of dogs is not prohibited in the UKC. Once again, not downgrading anyone who does as I have hired professionals myself for AKC shows. Just another point of view that majority of dogs are owner handled in UKC, regardless of their experience in the ring.
You obviously misunderstand, or maybe you want to believe what you're saying abot my intentions.
Either way, I don't think that I am "getting upset" about not getting the answer I "want".
I am merely asking for someone to respond to my question, rather than to tell me why UKC is so great or how I must be trying to make trouble.
Again, why can so many dogs that cannot win a single point in AKC, become UKC Ch's???????
There may be some mediocre dogs that show in AKC at times, of course there are! No one screens the competition prior to entries! But to become an AKC CH, those dogs will eventually have to win majors against truly GOOD dogs and the chances of that are slim to none. Why do you think there are so many dogs stuck on majors??? They couldn't seal the deal.
But wait, maybe you have already answered my UKC titles vs. AKC titles question and without even knowing it by saying "A dog is only as good as the competition it goes up against."
So thank you! Finally some honesty!!!!
I rest my case.
To answer your question, I completely disagree with you. A dog is only as good as the competition it goes up against. If there are mediocre dogs in the AKC ring on any particular day which there can be, does that make it any different than bringing quality dogs into a UKC ring? I think not!
I couldn't agree with you more about the AKC title earned in different zones!! Thank you for pointing that out!
I have made similar statements in previous discussions myself and have been bashed for it.
It is very true that a dog winning in Zones 1 or 2 has to beat some stiff competition for sure as compared to a dog who shows in areas such as PR, AK, HI, etc.
Do I think that's fair? NO WAY!
But it's how it is.
I have long hated the AKC points schedule and how it's made up. It makes little sense.
I don't send my dogs to places like that to finish, but I could. I prefer that my dogs be able to compete with the top dogs in the areas they come from. If they can't, they don't stay in my kennel.
Handler or no handler, Zones 1 and 2 are tough!
Money and faces won't get you much when there are so many to go around.
You have to have a quality dog first and foremost to successfully compete there.
We (being UKC breed clubs,exhibitors etc) try to educate the 'public' as best we can about the UKC. We encourage those who have not attended an UKC conformation event to give it a try. I would love to see the entries I see at all breed AKC shows on the east coast be the same at UKC shows!
I have a question for you "invisible". You said
"If not for lack of trying, what is the reason they are able to "finish" these dogs UKC but not even point them AKC?
To me, it speaks volumes and unfortunately for UKC, it is a bad reflection of the title, the competition and the ease with which a UKC champion is made up. "
What about the areas of the country where it is easier to obtain a AKC points? How can you compare a AKC Ch title earned in Division 1 or 2 to an AKC title earned in Division 13, where the competition is different? How can you compare a AKC Ch title dog that was professionally handled by a top handler known for 'winning' to a dog that was novice owner handled or breeder owner handled to its title?
Just as you stated, I am not trying to degrade anyone, their titles or their dogs. I think everyone deserves and should be proud of their AKC and UKC titles! But I think of the competition in the UKC with its smaller entries could be comparable to some of our AKC divisions who have less competition and an easier point scales. I also respect that professional handling of dogs is not prohibited in the UKC. Once again, not downgrading anyone who does as I have hired professionals myself for AKC shows. Just another point of view that majority of dogs are owner handled in UKC, regardless of their experience in the ring.
I am merely asking for someone to respond to my question, rather than to tell me why UKC is so great or how I must be trying to make trouble.
Again, why can so many dogs that cannot win a single point in AKC, become UKC Ch's???????
Your question is phrased in the classic "when did you stop beating your wife" way. And aren't you the same angry poster throughout this thread? Your posts are certainly not doing AKC any favors. As an AKC member, I sure wish you would stop.
But honestly I can't claim to care what you say you saw on a website. Why should I? I'm minding my own business and having a good time with my dogs. I'm not worried about participating in UKC. UKC's rising registrations and improving competition are clear enough indication for me that UKC's star is on the rise.
But most importantly, UKC is just a lot of fun, the kind of fun I want to have in my hobbies. And you don't make AKC sound like much fun at all.
UKC judging is continuing to improve with the help of experienced breeders and judges.
Below is a link to an article by Kathy Lorentzen for UKC about withholding awards and her biography.
http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Articles/Conformation10112292008
Kathy Lorentzen, Golden Retrievers
Biography
Kathy Lorentzen has been active in the sport of purebred dogs for forty years as a breeder, owner and handler. She began in her early teens with Golden Retrievers, and added English Springer Spaniels ten years later. She has bred approximately 50 AKC Champions in these two breeds, including BIS and Specialty winners, Hall of Fame members and top producers. She has also bred a number of Bouvier des Flandres and Flat-Coated Retriever Champions and owned a top BIS winning Afghan Hound. Kathy has been judging since 1999, and continues to breed Springers under the Ocoee prefix in conjunction with her daughter, Melanie King.
Only you can choose to see anger in my posts, even though it's not there.
I asked a question.
The only anger that could come of that is due to you not answering my question. That is sort of annoying. The way you skirt around the actual question by accusing me of being angry and bashing UKC to take the spotlight off the fact that you can't answer my question truthfully because the truth hurts.
If you are a "member" of AKC, I'd like to see your card. Maybe I can get one too!
To my knowledge, only my dogs are "members" of AKC, as they are the ones with the registration numbers saying so.
People cannot be "members". It's not a club!
I wish you all the happiness in the world competing with your dogs in UKC. I'm glad you are having fun and at least doing "something" with them. Better than a lot of people who breed without ever doing anything.
I just wish you UKC people could have fun quietly and stop pushing your hype down all of our throats when we may not want it.
I am merely asking for someone to respond to my question, rather than to tell me why UKC is so great or how I must be trying to make trouble.
Again, why can so many dogs that cannot win a single point in AKC, become UKC Ch's???????
Your question is phrased in the classic "when did you stop beating your wife" way. And aren't you the same angry poster throughout this thread? Your posts are certainly not doing AKC any favors. As an AKC member, I sure wish you would stop.
But honestly I can't claim to care what you say you saw on a website. Why should I? I'm minding my own business and having a good time with my dogs. I'm not worried about participating in UKC. UKC's rising registrations and improving competition are clear enough indication for me that UKC's star is on the rise.
But most importantly, UKC is just a lot of fun, the kind of fun I want to have in my hobbies. And you don't make AKC sound like much fun at all.
I asked a question.
The only anger that could come of that is due to you not answering my question. That is sort of annoying. The way you skirt around the actual question by accusing me of being angry and bashing UKC to take the spotlight off the fact that you can't answer my question truthfully because the truth hurts.
If you are a "member" of AKC, I'd like to see your card. Maybe I can get one too!
To my knowledge, only my dogs are "members" of AKC, as they are the ones with the registration numbers saying so.
People cannot be "members". It's not a club!
I wish you all the happiness in the world competing with your dogs in UKC. I'm glad you are having fun and at least doing "something" with them. Better than a lot of people who breed without ever doing anything.
I just wish you UKC people could have fun quietly and stop pushing your hype down all of our throats when we may not want it.
I am merely asking for someone to respond to my question, rather than to tell me why UKC is so great or how I must be trying to make trouble.
Again, why can so many dogs that cannot win a single point in AKC, become UKC Ch's???????
Your question is phrased in the classic "when did you stop beating your wife" way. And aren't you the same angry poster throughout this thread? Your posts are certainly not doing AKC any favors. As an AKC member, I sure wish you would stop.
But honestly I can't claim to care what you say you saw on a website. Why should I? I'm minding my own business and having a good time with my dogs. I'm not worried about participating in UKC. UKC's rising registrations and improving competition are clear enough indication for me that UKC's star is on the rise.
But most importantly, UKC is just a lot of fun, the kind of fun I want to have in my hobbies. And you don't make AKC sound like much fun at all.
Hey invisible are you done yet? Because we are all tired of listening to you. I don't think I read anywhere in this thread where anyone is pushing anything on you. In fact there are several posts telling you to beat it. Ok you made your point you don't like UKC we are all glad for you. You think you are better and the UKC is beneath you. Funny thing though because you keep on going on and on about it. I think the previous poster is correct when they said "the people who don't like UKC are the ones who probably didn't win at their shows". Why don't you do what you name says and just disappear.
I just wish you UKC people could have fun quietly and stop pushing your hype down all of our throats when we may not want it.
I just browsed this discussion for the first time and find it just like most of the other threads - good people trying to have a discussion and others being tacky. First off, if you don't want the UKC hype, or feel that it is being shoved down your throat, move on to another thread where you might be happier - if you are capable of happiness. Why feel the need to hang out here unless your purpose is to be bitchy? Secondly, why ask these good people to have their fun quietly? It's kind of like having an orgasm - not nearly as much fun if you put inhibitions on it!
I still want to know how to spell "paragraph".
Oh, by the way - since you are saying it's so easy, have you entered any UKC shows and if so, did any of your dogs get their Ch? Or are we one of those who likes to cast stones from afar?
Neutral Observer:
You got it right One of my favorite retorts on a forum (not this one) was "grow a brain moran!"
Yes, I would like to know the answer to this too?
Funny thing is, I know one of the nasty posters in this thread if not all of them, (I believe that most of them are the same person) and the comment about putting a lead on a monkey and it will finish is so true for this person. That is just what she does, puts a lead on a monkey, gives it to Rusty, and it finishes! How proud she must be.
Here's my suggestion for her. Stay in Fonda. You don't want to show with us. You will lose. You fail at life. /Slit.
typical way to end a Wiscoy forum post
dragging names into into the mud and slinging poo.
if you are so tired of it use your name so we can hold you accountable for your slander.
dragging names into into the mud and slinging poo.
if you are so tired of it use your name so we can hold you accountable for your slander.
You are asking me to post under my real name and you are also posting anonymously? Is there anyone here who doesn't think that this poster is an idiot?
Slander? I speak nothing but the truth. Go watch another episode of Law and Order and gtfo.
Tired......why bother posting if you have nothing nice to say???
I have never shown UKC but the club has been around almost as long as AKC. If it gives another opportunity to be with your dogs and people with similar interest does it really matter what others think.
Doesnt matter what club it is, it is suppose to be a sport and promote good sportsmanship. To me any dog that can carry multiple titles shows me they are quality and their owners are dedicated. I would find it a plus in a pedigree and be proud.
Tired, I'm not using the "slander" word because I don't think what you said fits that, exactly. But I do believe that if you want to call another person by name you should be willing to stand behind yours. If not, you could easily get the same point across without using specific names. And I'm using mine to avoid your criticism of "hu". Just a thought....
Some excellent information about UKC has been posted on this thread despite the efforts of one poster. Please feel free to check us out at www.ukcdogs.com or come to a UKC show to see for yourself.
The United Labrador Retriever Association is sponsoring a Specialty show in NJ in conjunction with all-breed show this weekend. Later this fall another Specialty will be held in NC.
Whether you like the quality of the dogs or not (nearly all of them are also competing in AKC), you will find a lot of nice people. We all show our own dogs or help one another. Juniors are actively encouraged to participate. We have the kind of good time that you have probably always wanted to have at a dog show.
