How many of you are offering a guarantee on elbows on pet puppies? I used to until the vet that does my OFA stuff told me that elbows are easy to injure in dogs that are running, hunting, etc. and that the World Elbow Congress advises elbows be cleared at 12 months of age due to the risk of injury. My vet was very strongly of the opinion that to warrent an elbow is to place yourself at risk for something that can be injured easily with no genetic componenet. I still am obtaining OFA on elbows, but didn't offer any guarantee with my last litter. No one seemed to care. Just wondering what everyone else is doing, as I contemplate breeding another litter.

Hips/eyes only here. And I DO NOT pay Vet bills. I offer a replacement puppy, and I have never had to do that.

I still guarantee elbows. True, I believe they can be injured. BUT..... if the dogs are getting injuries to their joints that easily, my thought is that there is an underlying, genetic and/or structural defect.

I try to put myself into the shoes of my pet buying families. They are paying upwards of $1000 in my area for a PET. They should get a warantee towards hips and elbows IMHO for that price.

Having said that, I had a pup from my last litter that required bilateral ED at 8 months. After seeing the x-rays, I highly doubt it was purely injury. I suspect that genes from both my bitch AND the stud dog came into play for that condition. The family had been in contact with me regarding their pups constant lameness, diagnosis, and subsequent surgery.

It was I that actually reminded them I provided a guarantee--in their concern to get their baby better, they had actually forgotten about our contract. I provide either money back or a replacement pup which is my discretion per contract. I asked them if they had a preference--I thought for sure they'd take the money since they spent quite a lot on surgery. Nope, they are opting for a replacement pup. I of course would NEVER demand the original dog back. They keep their dog they have grown so attached to and gone to great lengths to give a healthy, life with less pain and discomfort.

As a breeder, I feel it is the least I can do. I am heartbroken and sick to my stomach when one of my puppy families has a health issue they have to deal with. Bottom line is, I bred the dog, I produced the problem. I constantly ask myself--how would I want to be treated? Sure, it's a sucky part of being a breeder but you have to take the bad along with the good. It is great knowing you have found some wonderful homes for your babies where their families will spend what is necessary to keep their dogs comfortable and happy. As a breeder, what more could I ask for?

State lemon law requires anything hereditary up to one year.
hips and eyes only up to two years old

If by any chance in the future I do place a dog with a breeder on full, I no longer offer any extra guarantees other than those for pet puppies.
I am not a mind reader, I can not tell how tall your dog will be, how thick its coat will be, or control his ear set, or if he will like the show ring.
In the 20 years, the past year has been the oddest complaints....

World Elbow Conference? OK so can you fill me in more on this? Who backs this? OFA or other? Where was it held, can you get something from your vet in writing from this conference stating this?
Do they have conferences for other structural issues? Never heard of this before..ie. 'just elbows'
I'm in Canada, we are strongly encourage by the CKC, National club and regional clubs in COE to offer buyers 'replacement' gurantees on structual issues that a breeder would be held accountable for due to possible or proven hereditary link. What a breeder offers for 'replacement' is up to themselves. Myself, I offer to phone the vet doing surgery and put the purchase price, via Credit Card, of the puppy towards its surgery. This way, I make sure 'my puppy' is getting the $$$ and not car payments, school tution etc etc. The replacment gurantee is up to the age at which OVC or OFA will certify(and I ask that all issues be certified, not just their vet having a say).
I don't think buyers pay much attention 'really' until they have an issue. I always make them aware of the replacement terms before they leave a deposit.

I'm w/ 'how would you like to be treated', 100%. ED is absolutely 100% heritable! It's a genetic defect. Environment, nutrition, whatever, only expresses it.. It does NOT cause it! ED is polygenic like CHD. The best we can do is breed from CLEARED elbows to CLEARED elbows generation after generation.. And yup, mother nature will still throw a crappy curve at pup(s) sometimes. That's the ugliness of polygenic genes.

Replacement warranties on pet puppies, I will never understand. Of course you never have to replace because no one worth their salts is going to let go of their beloved baby. They love that pup. I warranty $$ to help you pay for that surgery that is going to be needed if it's more than Grade 1. Many grade 1's are not even diagnosed until OFA time. And then many say Grade 1 is an injury...uh huh.......
ED severe enough to warrant correction, you will see it long before that pup is 1yr old. By refunding some $$ towards that surgery bill, it is the least I can do to help you, help your puppy to lead as much a pain free life as possible. Surgery helps halt the severity of DJD when the ED warrants it. The most common in labradors is FCP.

Those of you that seriously think ED is not 100% heritable defect are burying your heads bigtime.

Quoted from Kim's post: World Elbow Conference? OK so can you fill me in more on this? Who backs this? OFA or other? Where was it held, can you get something from your vet in writing from this conference stating this?
-----------------------------------------------------


This is their publication on elbows:
http://www.iewg-vet.org/archive/2001/PWP4Gldn.PDF

3 more recent PDF's on their web site:
http://www.iewg-vet.org/index.html

I define "replacement puppy" as your next puppy, when you are ready, is free. Clearly written in contract that you do not have to return the first one.

I would not ever guarantee elbows because although it is the best we have, I do not think the OFA is reliable on this. Having said that, my contract also clearly states that I will consider anything other than hips and PRA on an individual basis. If I thought that I produced a puppy with bad elbows, I would replace it. Unilateral ED that never shows any symptoms, I am not sure I would replace.

Thanks for those links! :)

I am the owner of an ED dog now almost three, two surgeries, finally the boy is doing great. It's been a year of emotional ups and downs but finally our boy is pain free and enjoying the life we hoped he would have, running, playing with his brothers, etc. We are not breeders just owners who love their labs. Breeder did nothing, unfortunately, only offered to "take him back" which was not an option (we did not have an elbow clause in our contract.) Fixable or not he was our boy and we would do whatever it took for him to be well. I feel dogs are ours, perfect or not and you have to be committed to that or don't have them. I commend the breeders out there who recognize these problems do happen and pet owners are just happy when a breeder recognizes the problem and is there to support them. To take care of a dog with an orthopedic issue takes more than just surgery, it's joint support, diet, exercise, and it's a lifelong committment. Thank you for letting me comment. From a novice.

don't know which state the other poster is in but Florida has a lemon law covering anything congenital or hereditary up to 1 year.

Well good for Florida - thanks for the info!

http://www.malteseonly.com/lemon.html

"Those of you that seriously think ED is not 100% heritable defect are burying your heads bigtime."

Well, of course, you can't always equate Labradors and children (or can you:)), but my orthopedic surgeon husband feels (like in a lot of children) that many OCD's of the elbow in dogs are from injury and overuse. Personally, I guarantee elbows up to one year, but my husband disagrees with my policy.