Very Sad Day!!!!Had a puppy owner from my last litter just take her 13 month old male in to be nuetered before they moved out of state (wanted to use her doctor she had always had) Picked him up that night(same day as surgery) to take home. Was quite out of it still even though surgery was at 10:30am. He went pee and took a couple ice cubes an hour later or so. They started noticing he was breathing very rapid and was not responding to them when they spoke. Stomach was also descended. Within a half hour he stopped breathing. Rushed him to an emergancy clinic doing CPR the whole time but saddly we still lost him. Has this happened to anyone else? I am wanting to know if I should contact the other puppies out of the litter and warn them of complicatiions from surgery, FYI He also got all his shots that day too since they where moving. He was due in August. He was a very healthy robust male that was very active. Any Idea's?

I would be asking for a post mortem immediately!

I'm so sorry for you and the owners. So sad.

I would also want to know why he died. I could only think about a blood clot or bleeding of some sort. I don't know that I would have done shots the same day, but that's just me.

I just had a 3 year old neuteed. He stayed overnight.

I wonder if he may have bloated post-op. OP said that there was a distended abdomin. Some dogs that may be stressed in the kennel in hospital, barking and heavy panting due to stress will sometimes bloat post-op. I'm very sorry for your loss.

wow, I"m so sorry for you and your family's loss of their young dog. I've probably taken in 35 plus dogs to be spayed and neutered over a 25 yr course of owning pets ( including a few cats here and there ) and never had any complications post surgery.

I'm suspicious of your family's young boy developing bloat after the family brought him home. Giving vaccination at the same time of surgery is something I never have done just because the stress of surgery is taxing enough on the dog's body.

Though, if the family didn't feed their boy the morning of his surgery, presumably, he shouldn't have had dog food in his stomach, how would get get bloat later that evening ??

Could have the vet over anethenised that dog by mistake or the dog just have a bad allergic reaction to the anesthesia ??

Sounds like bloat to me too. And I have heard/read about ice cubes causing a dog to bloat because the cold is a shock to the stomach. Sorry for your loss.

The descended (pendulous) stomach you mentioned -like full of liquid- is typical of internal bleeding. When you neuter an older puppy or a dog, there is an increased risk of post surgery bleeding, because the arteries are bigger than in a younger puppy. If this is what happened, then your vet is responsible. He left a bleeder, and it is basic to check a dog before letting him go home.
The only genetic issue that could have affected to this effect is hemophilia, and that's very rare in Labs. Intoxication or blood parasite, can increase the chances of bleeding. At any age, I like to do a basic pre-op blood work to make sure all is working properly.
Sorry for your loss.

Without knowing what happened, it's just speculation and doesn't help the situation. If you do find out the circumstances, an update would be appreciated. My sincere sympathies to you and this pup's family.

Wow, I'm so sorry. I have to agree with breeder. A quick check may reveal internal bleeding. I always have the boy stay overnight and if possible two nights.

I am so sorry for the loss! How terrible!

I would not have allowed the dog to be vaccinated on the same day either, but that is me.

As for the dog staying the night at the clinic--would depend on the clinic. A lot of clinics don't have anyone there over night so the results would have been the same, so don't allow them to beat themselves up for that. Friend of mine left their Lab at a clinci over night thinking it would be taken care of to find out no one was there.

Definately get a post mortum.

I dog can bloat even if they have an empty stomach. Barking and panting can cause the stomach to fill with air and twist. I found this out the hard way.

This is very sad. I'm sorry for your puppy family. There's no way to know exactly what happened w/out doing a necropsy. If it was me, I'd want to know...

I don't think it was bloat...The distention could've been a 'bleeder'. I am one that never leaves my dogs overnight after altering. I want them here w/ me so I can monitor them. There is no one at clinics after hours unless it's a specialty clinic.

I mention 'bleeder' because this happened to me one time..Abdomen distended but luckily, the pressure popped open the incision and well, wasn't a pretty sight w/ all the blood leakage. If my dog had been at the vet overnight, they'd have found her dead the next morning.

So what exactly does it mean when a dog or bitch has a bleeder when in getting spayed or neutered ?

What is it that the vet missed when in doing the surgery ?

Well, basically it's a vessel that didn't get tied off properly or well.

Sounds to me like bloat too probably caused by them giving him the ice cubes, ice cubes make the stomach contract and can twist. The owners should not have given him ice cubes. As to those saying the dog might have been a "bleeder" I don't see how this would affect his stomach IF it was a simple nueter where they remove the testicles as they don't go into the stomach at all if they are decended into the sac.
Aloha,
Jackie

So sorry for the loss. Sounds like the puppy bled out. I bring my spay and neuter dogs home the same night. I would want to know what happened. Bleeding out, in my mind, would come first.

if he was having trouble coming out of anesth and he only had 2 ice cubes, otherwise empty gut for almost 24 hrs, i would question cardiovascular, arrythmia, heartfailure???? which can also make abd distended jmho

Getting his yearly shots + being put to sleep for his neuter + actually being neutered = way too much stress on the body.

PLUS too many meds at once.

Doctors and Vets these days do not think of the side effects of one drug that might not mix well with another drug.

I would put money on it that somehow or another a shot that they gave him mixed up with the anesth.

I doubt ice-cubes had nothing to do with it.

I would demand a postmortem for sure!

I recently had my bitch spayed. She had a difficult time coming back around from the anesthesia. What was suppose to be a one day hospital stay turned into three. She was watched very closely at the vets and is doing fine now. I blame the anesthesia. My son recently took his puppy to be spayed (one of my bitches' pups). I reminded him to speak to his vet (he lives in another state) about what happened to her dam. When he explained what happened and requested isoflurane his vet looked at him strangely and said, "We don't use anything but isoflurane" and was surprised there were vet practices using anything else. They also wanted to vaccinate my bitch for rabies the same day, I said "no". The vet tech was honest and said, "We can't make you give any vaccines." What a relief. I can't even imagine what might have happened to her if I had given the shot during the surgery. May very well have been the same outcome. Sad.

It would be very unlikely that this poor boy had a bleed out in the abdomin unless he was unilaterally or bilaterally cryptorchid and they had to do an abdominal exploratory to retrieve the testicles. A slipped ligature during routine neuter would not cause free blood in the abdominal cavity it would cause the scrotal sacs to fill with blood. What ever happened to this poor boy, his family and his breeder is tragic but people should not be quick to pass judgement unless they have all the facts. Most often if there is a reaction to anesthesia it is pretty instant either during induction or shortly after. Unfortunately some dogs have hidden cardiac conditions that go undetected during regular check ups and are not discovered until something goes terribly wrong during what should otherwise be a routine surgical procedure. I'm truely sorry for this incredible loss.

Yes, sadly it did happen to a puppy I bred. The man who owned the dog was an Oral Surgeon and used anesthesia every day in his practice. He took the 2 year old to have him neutered. Same thing, the surgery was done in the am but the dog was still groggy at 7 pm when Don picked him up. During the night Don called the vet to tell him that the dog's ears were cold, The vet said it was from the anesthesia. In the morning the dog was standing watching his owner,Don, shave and he just fell over and died. Don took him immediately to the vet and asked him just what kind of anesthesia he used. Well, he used the barbituate instead of the inhaled anesthesia. It was Sodium Pentabarb. There was not a thing wrong with the dog. I always make sure to specify that the surgeries are done with inhalent anesthesia and not a barbituate. Ellie

Talked to the Vet today that did the surgery. She said surgery went off without a hitch. No problems in heart rate, blood pressure and Oxygen levels. Pressed her for more info and she told me that she had given him a High Dosage of Benadryl 20 minutes before she gave shots then right after that gave him Ace to knock him out to try to take pre blood work and to start IV. Then gave him prophanal(SP)then started to prep him for surgery. Went thru surgery fine. After words gave him an injection 4 hours later for pain. ( it starts with an O and is in the Morphine/Opeium(SP) class. She thinks he either had a reaction to that O shot or the Ace and it just took a while to go into shock. Thinks the descending stomach and rapid breathing was from the fluid building up in lungs and around heart. VERY SAD THING. Going to send out an e-mail to all other puppy owners from that litter to warn them not to have their vet's give so many drugs/vaccinations without close monitering

I'm so sorry for this family's tragic loss.
I have gotten this type of call twice -- once about a dog I bred who was neutered at about 7 months of age (owned by a pediatrician). She went to pick him up after work the day he was neutered and he keeled over right in the kennel at the vet's -- he threw a blood clot.
Second dog was a rescue that I adopted out, he died from a reaction to the anesthesia.

A couple of things I noted about your situation -- first of all ice cubes are not recommended for dogs due to risk of bloat. Second I would never give immunizations at the same time the dog had surgery.
Even my vet says to wait at least a month after any type of traumatic event to give shots.

Regarding "bleeders" -- sometimes they just crop up -- I had a dog with pyo this week and she almost died from bleeding during spay surgery (and I caught this right away). They ended up stapling her wound as she had been under so long they didn't want to waste time with suturing and while she was recovering she had a "bleeder" which apparently was pretty bad as she has had to keep a pressure wrap on for the past 48 hours. I took it off this afternoon and she had still had oozing onto it, seems okay tonight. I am guessing her platelets were low in her case from the infection putting her at a higher risk of bleeding but this would not have been the case with your pup.

Sorry for the long post.....again I am sorry for your and their loss.

I am starting to question the use of ACE in canines.
I have a boy who had a bad reaction to it when in for Prelims. Vet was worried.

I also have another girl, same thing. Small dose, way too "sleepy".

I won't allow it to be used on my guys again.

What is ACE?

Acepromazine is a sedative. When I was working for the vet back in the good old days, we lost a young dog during a neuter on the table. He reacted to the anesthesia. He was a rather excitable boy and I noticed that other dogs that had difficulty with anesthesia were high energy dogs. I think your vet is right on the COD, but I also would like to know why the dog needed both Ace and a barbiturate for what is a very simple and relatively non-invasive surgery. We used to just use inhalent and the dogs would generally seem to experience no pain whatsoever post-op. Perhaps because he was more mature there was more pain. This is a drawback to neutering and spaying later because there is more development of the reproductive organs so the surgery has a little more risk.

First, my condolences on the loss of this boy- how very sad for you and this family!

I will echo the concern regarding the use of "Ace"...I am not a fan at all as a few years ago a conservative dose was recommended to me by my vet for one of my dogs to quell nerves with fireworks & thunderstorms. I decided to try it out with HALF the dose recommended and I almost lost my girl. She was unable to move, incontinent, heart rate became irregular and slow-took her over 24hrs to stablize on IV's etc. We almost lost her, had I given her the rec. dose I surely would have. Taught me a valuable lesson- I never administer anything now without thorough consideration of effects AND I ask a lot more questions of my vets re same!

What vaccines did he have??

Have a bitch that reacted badly to whatever anesthesia the vet(not my regular vet/different practice) used for OFAs. I know she used a sedative before the actual anesthesia and I believe it was ACE. She also got a pain killer, but don't know why she'd need that. I was asked to wait until late in the day to pick her up...that was while I waited for several minutes for someone to come back to the phone and tell me how my dog did. I got very concerned when the tech. told me she was having a hard time coming around. My call was 4 hours after the procedure was done. I picked her up at 6:00p.m. and she didn't look herself. She had been given Sub Qs and her entire left side looked like a walrus. I asked why the reason for the Sub Qs??? The staff was gone for the day and I didn't get a clear answer. My girl drooled excessively and was sooooo cold to the touch and I mean every part of her body was cold. I thought I might lose her. I kept her warm in towels straight from the dryer and gave her a small amount of water. I stayed up with her all night. It took her 3 days to act normal again. You bet I told my regular vet about it and when she was sectioned a few months ago she came out of that surgery with flying colors. There's no question in my mind that anesthesia IS definitely the scariest part of surgery just like taking off and landing is on a plane. There'd better be a well rested, clear minded, and VERY experienced person handling it!!! I'm so sorry about that dear boy and his owners.

Wow, I'm getting worked up over this. Sorry, but this sounds completely assinine. Why would she give the dog Benadryl unless it had a previous history of vaccination reaction? If that's the case, it would be ridiculous to neuter him at the same time in case he did react. I would be asking what the dosage of Benadryl was given since that sounds pretty sketchy too. Acepromazine and Propophol are extremely safe drugs, but like all drugs you need to know your dosages and do proper monitoring. Take my advice, I would be heading straight to the the veterinary regulatory board with this one. You may save someone else's pet!

The whole idea, it seems, is racking up as large a bill as they can, one injection after the other, one drug and procedure after the other. Many of these practices pay veterinarians (raises, etc.) by the amount of money they generate for the business. The more they can add to your bill, the better for them. I think what needs to be done is get an itemized quote before leaving your pet so you know ahead of time EXACTLY what they plan to do and what you will be charged for. That way anything that looks excessive or suspicious you can question. Our dogs are picking up the tab for their greed.