Labrador Retriever Forum
Odd subject line I know, but that is the only way to describe what I am looking at.
Five year old girl had her second litter last summer, I was hoping for a daughter for myself. Before that she was the calmest, most loving, fantastic little dog you ever met - a true snuggler and lover - exactly what one wants to build upon. She had three puppies (all boys of course), uterine insufficiency led to a c-section. We brought her home and all h**l broke loose from there...
She was so frantic with the puppies, whining, trying to drag, hold, carry, hide them, stepping on them that she required 24 hour attention or had to be removed from the puppies while I would even go to the bathroom. We tried an "antidepressant" at first but finally my vet felt she needed something to help her and we put her on tranquilizers. Nothing really worked that well to calm her. At three 1/2 weeks I left her alone just long enough for her to kill a puppy....
The two puppies finally left, as all puppies do, and we hoped she would return to her normal wonderful self. No luck. She is still so frantic that her movements are almost jerky. She acts as if she has been beaten - never!! She rarely can stay still to get cuddled, her jitteriness is almost pathetic to watch.
Any of you have any ideas or have you ever had anything like this happen? I can tell you that had my first litter been like this I would have been out of this hobby twenty years ago.
Oh, how sad for everyone! This has a lot of possible components. I am confused. Is this a year after the last litter, or was this a recent litter? If recent, the first part of the following may apply. She hasn't been beaten, but she has been sectioned after labor and almost sounds like post traumatic stress(PTSD) from a lay perspective. Jerky, clonic movements sound like low grade mineral deficiency affecting nervous system, even with a small litter. Have they checked her calcium/magnesium levels? What is she eating? Do you know any TTouch practitioners or really good vets who are chiropractors who can straighten her out, literally? Any good Bach Flower remedy folks? I'd at least use a rescue remedy. I'd also take her temp and check her for a suture reaction manifesting as a pus ball underneath in area of incision. I've had a "routine"" spay in which retired bitch was never right, but the suture material was NOT dissolving; it was a plastic zip tie looking thing that finally pussed out into a pouch/abscess 6 weeks post spay, and she had to go into vet for its removal. As for calcium, do a search on this forum.
If not recent , try Bach Flower remedy, chiropractor, TTouch. Something emotionally and physically is not right with her at this point. PTSD?
she needs calcium. give her some yogurt, cottage cheese, or ice cream, even Tums will work.
Charlotte, this was a year ago. Blood tests fine, no infection. Thanks for the suggestions. I agree this is not physical, this is mental/emotional...and unfortunately time passing and just getting loved on aren't helping.
Could it be possible that something was left inside at the C-section? Just a long shot, but possible. Something that has been bothering her ever since? An x-ray, might show something. If nothing shows up, I would have her have an exploratory laparoscopy/laparostomy, and possibly spay.
Get some calcium in her.
Hormones can make dog and people do crazy things. I would have here thyroid checked and spay her. If one of those two things don't make a marked improvement I would seek care at a University Vet Hospital.
I would lean towards hormonal or chemical imbalance.
would be worth it to run a blood panel and do the xrays to rule out foreign objects.
Poor girl, hope you figure it out soon for her sake.
Good grief, before you put her into any further tests, give her some calcium.
Breeder, if all mental illnesses could be treated with calcium, there would not be crazy people in this world.
I don't thing you read the whole post. This has been going on for a whole year, and blood tests have been done. That rules out Hypocalcemia
Piper, what do you think about doing x-rays of her belly? Consulting a dog behavior specialist? I know women can go insane after having babies, but I've never heard of this happening to a bitch.
Could it be pain related, ie: compressed nerve?
Happens after c-sections, sometimes.
Was she ok after her first litter? If so i'd lean to think that something was wrong internally and would do an exploratory surgery on this girl, reason I say this is that a bitch I had bred that had puppies had to have a c section well the vet ended up sewing her bladder to the uterus by accident I supposed but when the bitch went on to another vet to get spayed later on the vet that did the spay told the owners that her bladder had been sewn to the uterus and the dog must have been in pain and nobody knew. I would definately get this checked out. Poor girl I hope you find out what's wrong with her and get it fixed.
Aloha,
Jackie
Five year old girl had her second litter last summer, I was hoping for a daughter for myself. Before that she was the calmest, most loving, fantastic little dog you ever met - a true snuggler and lover - exactly what one wants to build upon. She had three puppies (all boys of course), uterine insufficiency led to a c-section. We brought her home and all h**l broke loose from there...
She was so frantic with the puppies, whining, trying to drag, hold, carry, hide them, stepping on them that she required 24 hour attention or had to be removed from the puppies while I would even go to the bathroom. We tried an "antidepressant" at first but finally my vet felt she needed something to help her and we put her on tranquilizers. Nothing really worked that well to calm her. At three 1/2 weeks I left her alone just long enough for her to kill a puppy....
The two puppies finally left, as all puppies do, and we hoped she would return to her normal wonderful self. No luck. She is still so frantic that her movements are almost jerky. She acts as if she has been beaten - never!! She rarely can stay still to get cuddled, her jitteriness is almost pathetic to watch.
Any of you have any ideas or have you ever had anything like this happen? I can tell you that had my first litter been like this I would have been out of this hobby twenty years ago.
Jackie, when I first started to read your response, I thought - surgery is too drastic, but when I finished reading the whole story, I was amazed to learn that such a thing could happen.
Do you suppose that during her c-section, she was deprived of oxygen, causing any brain damage?
Ask the vet about anesthesia. I had a dog once that was very sweet until her prelim hip x-ray. She came home crazy. They had used Ketamine as an anesthetic and she was never the same again. It is not a typical reaction, but the drug is a hallucinogen and my girl must have had a bad "acid" trip. I no longer allow the drug to be used on any of my dogs.
I can't answer that one for you as i'm not a vet so don't know, all I relayed was what happened to one girl I bred and if something is stuck together this poor girl has no way of telling us as she can't talk so that is what I would do in this situation. I myself could hardly believe a vet had done that and when the owners told me I was shocked!
Aloha,
Jackie
Do you suppose that during her c-section, she was deprived of oxygen, causing any brain damage?
Bitches can get Post Partum Depression, too. I had this happen to a bitch. The Vet did give her some meds to calm her down and eventually she was ok again. Sometimes a litter is just overwhelming. No real problem but, some mothers can't handle having a newborn, and bitches the same. I think I would have her a Vet visit. It isn't all so uncommon. Good luck Ellie
Yes! Ketamine was one of the drugs the vet used for OFAs when my girl came home so cold, drooling and completely out of it for 3 whole days. I won't ever let any vets use this stuff on my dogs again.
Ketamine is a fast acting anesthetic. Not the type that would cause long term drowsiness.
Do you suppose that during her c-section, she was deprived of oxygen, causing any brain damage?
I was thinking the same thing. If I am reading the original post correctly calcium is not the issue. Its been a year since whelp
It is important to request oxygen during
C-section for the pups as well. And always use Propofol for anesthesia. Unfortunately not all vets use oxygen during a C. I know for a fact my vet is very seasoned in Cs but I was the first to request Oxygen and he learned something from that.
I pray to the OP that you get answers and reverse this behavior in your girl.
I also agree with checking her thyroid. This needs to be a full panel T3, T4, etc. not just a T4 that is done on a routine full blood work up.
I so hope you can find answers and resolve this. Please keep us posted so we can all learn from your experience.
Adhesions can occur as tissues heal inside the abdomen. I doesn't necessarily have to be that the vet sew the uterus to the bladder. Unless he actually retrieved the suture material, he can't really tell.
Adhesions can cause chronic pain, that could explain the abnormal behavior.
Please, let us know if you find out.
Good luck.
Any news with your girl?
Could it have started as a calcium deficiency and then become a "learned behavior" problem? Maybe this poor gal was so messed up chemically after her c-section then she was given anti-depressants then sedated....that would be enough to leave some long term behavioral changes & associations that would take some time & desensitization.
