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heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

I took my Lab to the vet today, and she was positive for heartworms. She was on monthly heart worm preventative, but still got them. Also a german shephard owned by a vet tech, was on Heartgard plus, and he was positive for heartworms, too.

I do not understand how dogs can get heartworms when taking monthly preventative.

My vet said that studies are showing that the larva is doing its thing in 20 days instead of 30. Also, some people are give preventative 2 times a month alternating with interceptor & heartgard.

Does anyone have a reason for this?

Also, what is the best treatment. They want to put my lab on antibodics for a month, then give her a shot, and one month later, another shot.

I understand this dangerous.

Please help.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

The information you have provided is too brief to make an adequate reply. Where do you live (general geographic region), what months do you use heartworm preventive meds and what product do you use, how old is your dog, when was the last previous test done, what test was used this time... would all be a start before I could comment.

There are any number of things that could have happened...

I believe that under certain circumstances Heartguard is standing behind their product.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

We live in the heartland, and use Ivomectrine monthly all 12 months.

My female is 8, and heartworm test given yesterday in vet's office. It was a blood test.

Also, the blood test revealed that the kidneys are not in the normal range. Her temp was 102.

I am to come in next week & have a CBC.

They want to identify any problems before treatment begins.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

I know we read somewhere that Heartguard Plus was recall because the strength was not high enough to kill the heart worms. But they announced it was in the smaller doses for the little dogs. Maybe for a while it was not the right strength for the larger dogs also. Just not reported yet. If you were for sure on Heartguard and have proof you gave it year around, I would be contacting them. Let them help pay for treatment. So sorry to hear this.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

The recall was for Iverheart Plus for smaller dogs. If you were giving heartgard once monthly all year round without stopping and it was purchased through your Veterinarian and not the internet pharmacies Merial will stand by their product. Best of luck with your dog.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

sorry more questions...

have you owned this dog since a puppy, do you do annual heartworm testing, which product do you use specifically and truly and honestly have you really really been doing it each and every month for 8 years. Did you skip a few months because she was pregnant, or she was out traveling,etc?

I personally think we are going to see an increase in Heartworm in regions where it has not been a big deal. Here in my area of New England we have some of those "rescue" groups that bring dogs up from the south and they are bringing up known (tested + and untreated!) heartworm positive dogs. The more positives that are up here the bigger the risk is to the rest of our dogs.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

with money tight many families are cutting pet care and heartworm protection could be one of them.

Dogs travel all over the country via shows and families moving so I doubt you can just blame the rescue groups.

IMO commercial heart worm protection does not have enough active ingredient to protect anymore.

I have used for 20 years, liquid ivermec at 1cc per 100lb and have never had a case of heartworms and I am in the heart of infestation country.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

in human medicine when you get a test result that doesn't make sense, you retest because the test may have been faulty.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

I am active in hunt tests, and sometimes post on the Retriever Training Forum. There have been multiple posts in the last year or so regarding dogs that are coming up heartworm positive even though they have been on monthly preventative. Most of the dogs I've heard of are around the Alabama-Louisiana area. You might want to search the subject on that forum.

There is a lot of buzz in the field trial/hunt test world about the possibility of a more resistant strain of heartworms as a possible factor in these cases.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

I'd get a retest, too. Faulty results do happen, and before I'd put any members of my furry family through the ordeal of heartworm treatment, I'd make for double-sure that he/she did have it. Then, go from there.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

depending on what stage the dog is in "if" it is a positive result. You can also use the liquid ivermec at the higher dosages over time to eliminate.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Is this dog microfilaria positive or occult positive or both? If the snap test is positive your vet can do a spin down and direct smear to check for microfilaria or send out for more extensive testing at a local lab.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Taken from Whole Dog...


Natural Heartworm Prevention
and treatment

The cause of heartworms is mosquitoes.
Mosquitoes carry these parasites that enter the bloodstream as larvae and migrate to the heart. Six months after reaching the heart, the larvae turn into adults, and that's when problems begin. Full-grown heartworms may eventually fill the heart, blocking flow of blood to the lungs and doing damage to the heart. Often, by the time you see symptoms, they've already done some damage to the heart.

What the average pet owner is not aware of, is just how perfect the conditions have to be for a dog to get heartworms in the first place:

The heartworm
has 5 separate larval stages referred to simply as L1, L2, L3, and so on. It also has two separate cycles which have to be combined to makeup the lifecycle of the heartworm. Only one cycle takes place in a mosquito and the other inside a dog.

The mosquito becomes infested when it bites a dog which is already harboring L1 (MICROFILARIAE). *This can only happen if the dog is also harboring the L5, which is the adult, male and female heartworm as the Microfilariae are their offspring. These Microfilariae can live for up two years in the dogs blood but must be taken up by a mosquito in order to develop any further. If they are not taken up by a mosquito to further develop, they will simply die of old age.

Once the mosquito is infested, the larva must then go through two stages of development or molts L2, and L3, before they can infect another dog. This, mosquito, stage takes anywhere from two weeks to several months depending on the weather. The warmer the weather the faster the development.

Providing the humidity and temperature are such that the droplet does not evaporate, the L3 larva must then swim through the droplet of saliva and into the mosquito bite, thereby entering your dogs system. Once inside your dog the L3 larva must spend the next two weeks or so developing into the L4 larva. During this period of time the larva is living in the skin, not the blood of the newly infested dog. The L4 will continue to live and develop in the skin for the next three or four months where it will finally develop into the L5 stage.

Once it makes this development into the L5 it then leaves the skin and enters the circulatory system. The L5 or young adult then migrates to the heart and pulmonary arteries. Once there it will mate approximately 5 to 7 months after entering the dogs body. That is of course assuming that the dog has been infested with both male and female larva. This mating produces the Microfilariae.

Prevention
is by far the most important part of medicine. As you all know by now, I am convinced that having a very strong immune system is of the utmost importance to your dog. I believe that a strong healthy dog will throw off parasites and illness all on it's own.

With that said, dogs that are not at their peak of health should be first started with a good diet, I recommend a raw, species appropriate diet first and foremost. At the very least a home cooked one (or if for some reason you can not do either for your dog, then an organic, chemical free, grain free food), supplementation and general remedies for a period of time to strengthen their immune system. Then, the wonderful, natural treatment effects will kick in!

If your dog has been diagnosed with heartworm, it is imperative that you improve his or her immune system as stated above and don't cheat your dog out of perfect health.

Dr Jeffery Levy, feels as I do about the importance of treating the dog, not the heartworm.(emphasis is mine)
"The objective of treating a dog with heartworm should NOT be to get rid of the heartworm. You're not treating the heartworm, you're treating the dog... It makes a lot more sense to measure the treatment by looking at the dog's quality of life. So, he is positive for heartworm. The fact is, heartworms have been around forever and dogs and heartworms have been coexisting for all eternity. It's actually a relatively recent phenomenon that dogs are dying from heartworm. Heartworm is not, by any means, the death penealy it's made out to be. The dogs that die from heartwom are the dogs that ar being vaccinated, fed commercial food and are being treated with supressive drugs for every little thing that comes along"."

Did you catch that? This is so vitally important to note. Please re-read that last sentence above again.

I (as well as other veterinary naturopaths and many holistic vets) maintain that, "Allopathic medicine is based on fear - fear of disease, fear of pathogens, fear of death. It's fear-based medicine. Allopathic/fear based medicine has been the approach that's been used to get people to use heartworm preventives. It is not to say that heartwomrs don't exist, obviously, they do. The very same fear-based approach is used as the main basis of vaccinations and for a lot of things.

Disease, illness and symptoms come from within. A relatively healthy animal will not be susceptible to those things. So the ultimate answer is not to prevent heartworm (or distemper or parvo or whatever), by some artifical means, but rather to work on improving and maintaining good health. To the degree that you can imporve your dog's level of health, disease of any kind becomes less threatening."

NOW, realize this, a dog must be essentially healthy in order to resist succumbing to heartworm (or its treatments). This statement is more than just an idle observation – it is the principle that ensures the survival of wild canines, who (think about this now...) suffer far greater exposure to heartworm-carrying mosquitoes then our domestic pets however, they succumb in far lesser numbers than our domestic dogs!

Dr. William Falconer, a veterinarian with a homeopathic practice in Austin, Texas states: “The heartworm has been out there forever as far as we know, but we don’t read reports of wolves and coyotes being wiped out by heartworm, and yet domestic dogs are falling prey to it."

Interesting point, don't you think?
So why are our pets/domesticated dogs falling prey to heartworms? Surely they are more healthy then the wild canines, with all our feeding of "scientifically balanced", processed foods and vaccinating them to prevent them from getting all the nasty and sometimes fatal diseases right? ... WRONG!

We are vaccinating our dogs way too much and way too often, we’re feeding them poor nutrition to say the least, and we’re using chemical pesticides to kill their fleas, ticks and any internal parasites they may have. All of these things combine to weaken their immune systems, and their immunity is the only thing that can save them.

On the other hand, foxes, coyotes, and wolves go un-vaccinated, eat only raw meat, bones, and a very few herbs and/or berries when there is no meat available. These wild canines are never exposed to the dozens of toxic chemicals we use to kill fleas, ticks and even heartworm on our dogs and in our homes. Interesting that some coyotes and foxes have been found through research, to be able to “fight off” heartworm infestations and some others become host to the parasite however, in small enough numbers that the heartworms don’t threaten their hosts’ lives.

Dr Jeffery Levy again thinks as I do and states: "Thanks in large part to the scare tactics of many veterinarians in promoting (so called) preventive drugs, many people believe that contracting heartworms is the equivalent of a death sentence for their dogs. This is not true."

Dr Levy concluded as I and many other have from this; that it is not the heartworms that caused disease, but the other factors that damaged the dogs' health/immune system to the point that they could no longer compensate for an otherwise tolerable parasite load. "It is not really that different from the common intestinal roundworms, in that most dogs do not show any symptoms. Only a dog whose health is compromised is unable to tolerate a few worms. Furthermore, a truly healthy dog would not be susceptible to either type of worm in the first place. It seems to me that the real problem is that allopathic attitudes have instilled in many of us a fear of disease, fear of pathogens and parasites, fear of rabies, as if these are evil and malicious entities just waiting to lay waste to a naive and unprotected public."

Whichever end of the scale holistic veterinarians and veterinary naturopaths, place themselves on, we all agree about the first step toward heartworm prevention and treatment: A dog must be essentially healthy in order to resist succumbing to heartworm (or its treatments). This is more than an idle observation – it is the principle that ensures the survival of wild canines, who suffer far greater exposure to heartworm-carrying mosquitoes but succumb from the parasites in far lesser numbers than domestic dogs.

Parasites were never intended to kill their hosts. If and when they do, then you can be assured that something is very out of balance. A parasite’s whole evolutionary thrust is to continue to live/survive its life cycle; if it kills its host, then there’s a dead end. The fact that our dogs are dying of this disease in greater and greater numbers indicates loudly that something is way out of whack!

Given the wild canines’ inate efficiency in dealing with heartworm, virtually all veterinary naturopaths and holistic practitioners, recommend utilizing as many aspects of the wild canines’ lifestyle as is practical for domestic dogs, including, most importantly, a natural diet of raw meat and bones, minimal vaccination, and severely curtailed exposure to flea/tick -killing pesticides. Just STOP using them! There are many alternative, healthy ways of preventing and even killing pests but again, a healthy immune system is the key.

Animals with healthy, balanced immune systems are not in need of any specific preventives becuase their very lifestyle is their preventative!

Heartworm Prevention

As stated above, the best prevention is a healthy lifestyle with the elimination of over vaccinating and chemicals as well as raw meaty bone diet.

I get emails and questions from people quite often, wanting to know if they only give one heartgard chew every few months instead of monthly if that would be safer... Or, if there is a "safe" heartworm pesticide they can give their dog in the mean time while they are working on getting their dog (and/or cat) on a more healthy way of life. The following is for you:

According to the American Veterinary Medical Association, 65% of adverse drug reactions and 48% of all reported deaths resulting from drug reactions are caused by heartworm preventatives. The potential side effects of Ivermectin (the active ingredient in Heartgard) include liver problems, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of appetite, depression, lethargy, skin eruptions, seizures, tremors, paralysis, autoimmune disorders, thyroid problems, fever, weakness, dizziness, coughing, nose bleeds, difficulty breathing, pneumonia, irritability, sudden aggressive behavior, nerve damage, fertility problems, and sudden death. Other chemical heartworm preventatives have many of the same side effects.

These drugs weaken your pet's immune system which recognizes the chemicals as poison. The body works hard to eliminate the toxins and major organs, like the liver and kidneys, are taxed. For this reason, the pet's body is not able to handle contact with the normal bacterial or viral substances in our world, so it gets sick more easily.

Part of the veterinary industry has acknowledged these dangers. These "alternative vets" are open to natural, safe and effective alternatives. Many of these vets believe that the long-term use of heartworm prevention drugs are a link in the chain of diseases such as arthritis, liver and kidney diseases, skin allergies, and many types of cancers.

Please, understand, when your dog is on Heartworm pills or chews (all pesticides), mosquitoes will still be attracted to your dog and will still bite them. The key is to get the blood of your pet in a healthy enough condition that the mosquitoes won't want it. Healthy dogs actually have a bitter tasting blood to parasites. Un-healthy dog's blood is more attracitve them and may taste sweet to them.

For those of you just changing your pet over to a natural lifestyle and are looking for a natural pevention in addition to nutrition and minimal vaccinating, there are some Natural Heartworm Prevention Programs

Mosquitoes are a parasite. Many herbs and essential oils have anti-parasitic properties that will discourage not only mosquitoes, but fleas and ticks as well.

Herbs such as Mugwort (Artemisia vulgaris), Clove Flower Buds (Eugenia caryophyllata), Garlic (Allium sativum),Spearmint Herb (Mentha spicata), Turmeric Root (Curcuma longa), Black Walnut (Juglans nigra), and Wormwood (Artemisia annua) are examples of what can be used to formulate an effective preventative and are used by some as part of a treatment program for pets already heavily infested.

Were you aware that dogs and cats have their own way of protecting themselves from mosquitoes? They instinctively will avoid the hot, muggy places where mosquitoes congregate and spend time in the cool, dry areas. You may also notice them roll in the dust or even mud to remove moisture from the skin and change their scent,to be less attractive to mosquitoes.

Again, I stress, prevention of any dis-ease comes from proper, species appropriate nutrition. With proper carnivore nutriton, they will develop and maintain a strong immune system. It is pretty rare for worms to kill dogs. They will die eventually when their environment is not conducive to their own life and perpetuation. However, remember if your dog has a low immune system, the parasites they may be host to are more likely to reproduce and take over with infestation. Proper nutrition is the foundation for thriving health.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Now I feel guilty for giving my dog heartworm prevenative

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

The ones that should feel guilty are the veterinarians and their staff pushing the stuff.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

just me
Now I feel guilty for giving my dog heartworm prevenative


Do you feel guilty for giving your babies their childhood vaccines, too? I don't. Here's an idea...lets stop giving our children their vaccines, start feeding them raw diets with no grains and see what happens. I bet we have a bunch of very sick children in a while that spread a pandemic of Polio. Same concept.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

"Allopathic medicine is based on fear - fear of disease, fear of pathogens, fear of death. It's fear-based medicine. It is the very same fear-based approach used as the main basis of vaccinations and for a lot of things."

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Fear/Intimidation
"Allopathic medicine is based on fear - fear of disease, fear of pathogens, fear of death. It's fear-based medicine. It is the very same fear-based approach used as the main basis of vaccinations and for a lot of things."


Call it what you want, but diseases(and parasites) still evolve and mutate no matter what you do. I'd rather try to prevent against it than ignore it and hope for the best. Are you telling me that if, say theoretically, another black plague were to come through and a vaccination against it were available- you wouldn't recieve it, in hopes that your immunity would protect you? And also, the dog's immunity is being questioned...who's to say it's a weak dog and not a mutated superparasite? There are many factors in this debate. All I know is domestic dogs and humans both are living longer, fuller lives than they ever have before. I don't believe coyotes and foxes are enjoying that, they have the same lifespan as they ever have.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

we need to find the happy medium between the two ideas.
I agree with some of the holistic ideas, feeding right, strong immune system. But no way am I going to leave it up to mother nature. Because my favorite family friend might not be the one mother nature decides to keep around.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

annonlabs
we need to find the happy medium between the two ideas.
I agree with some of the holistic ideas, feeding right, strong immune system. But no way am I going to leave it up to mother nature. Because my favorite family friend might not be the one mother nature decides to keep around.


Absolutely. I understand both ends, and I believe I do right by my dogs. I give them what they need for a healthy immune system, and have even used holistic remedies myself. But I also vaccinate and do preventatives because I have the ability to do just that...prevent.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Another Approach
Were you aware that dogs and cats have their own way of protecting themselves from mosquitoes? They instinctively will avoid the hot, muggy places where mosquitoes congregate and spend time in the cool, dry areas. You may also notice them roll in the dust or even mud to remove moisture from the skin and change their scent,to be less attractive to mosquitoes.


Every Labrador living in this house is in the pool, pond, creek, and even in puddles left by the automatic sprinklers in addition to the mud pits! I'm not so sure they are removing moisture from their skin, but it sure does change their scent to be less attractive to humans!

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

WOW! What a message from another aproach, and something for me to think about!

My dog that has a positive heart worm test, also has an out of range blood test on kidneys. (blood work dones in house)

She has been throwing up the past 2 days, (Actually since she was given the B-12 shot & antobodic by the vet, and when I gave her ivomec heart worm preventative yesterday) Today she ate brown rice that i cooked, (boiled) and boiled egg & cottage cheese, and she threw up about 2 hours afterwards.

I gave her about 8 ounces of peda-lite with a syrance. She did not like the tast, but she did swallow it. I am waiting to see if she keeps this down.

Previously, before I took her to the vet, she was not eating her dog food like she usually does. The food is Diamond Premium Edge Chicken & Rice.

She is supposed to have a CBC next week to see if there is another problem besides Heart worms.

I want her well,as you said treat the dog, and also want the heartworms to be gone.

I plan to boil some chicken breast tomorrow
& give that to her with the rice.

Any more suggestions, I greatly do appreciate.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

heart worms would not make your dog suddenly sick where she is throwing up....something else must be wrong.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

I'll stick to Heartguard. Some of the natural medicines listed are not safe. Wolves don't live long in the wild.

Mosquitoes are attracted to CO2, it doesn't matter what supplements you give your dog mosquitoes will still bite them.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Not giving your dog heartworm preventative is just like playing with fire. Five dollars per month per dog for Heartworm pills prevents a disease that can kill your dog. Out in the wild...wolves, coyotes and foxes get HW disease too along with many other disease such as distemper, rabies and all sorts of other skin parasites. I think I'll stick with Heartgard thank you. BTW Vets and their staff are not forcing clients to buy HW pills, they are recommending products to help care for your dogs and cats the best way they know how.

heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Acutally, I went in to my regular vets office to buy some Heartguard. I was told that they could not sell me any as my dogs had not been tested for heartworm in a year. She said she could make an appt for my dogs for Tues morning. After I agreed I was sold (2) Heartguard, 1 for each of my dogs... Go figure....looking for another vet as I didn't like that tactic by being embarassed in front of other clients and plan on telling the vet! Also, they wanted to charge me $300+ to have 2 dogs in for their annual which included vaccinations... Finally got that down to $80 as I have vacs done at a horse vet in the country.... he only charges $40 for everything. Only gives vacs to dogs & cats & only treats horses

heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Acutally, I went in to my regular vets office to buy some Heartguard. I was told that they could not sell me any as my dogs had not been tested for heartworm in a year. She said she could make an appt for my dogs for Tues morning. After I agreed I was sold (2) Heartguard, 1 for each of my dogs... Go figure....looking for another vet as I didn't like that tactic by being embarassed in front of other clients and plan on telling the vet! Also, they wanted to charge me $300+ to have 2 dogs in for their annual which included vaccinations... Finally got that down to $80 as I have vacs done at a horse vet in the country.... he only charges $40 for everything. Only gives vacs to dogs & cats & only treats horses.
Oh yes, my reg vets sells Heart guard for about $105 and I get my heartguard at the horse vet for I think $60....

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

There isn't a vet that can make you get vaccines. They need to be real careful in what they "suggest" and they know it.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

newbie
Acutally, I went in to my regular vets office to buy some Heartguard. I was told that they could not sell me any as my dogs had not been tested for heartworm in a year. She said she could make an appt for my dogs for Tues morning. After I agreed I was sold (2) Heartguard, 1 for each of my dogs... Go figure....looking for another vet as I didn't like that tactic by being embarassed in front of other clients and plan on telling the vet! Also, they wanted to charge me $300+ to have 2 dogs in for their annual which included vaccinations... Finally got that down to $80 as I have vacs done at a horse vet in the country.... he only charges $40 for everything. Only gives vacs to dogs & cats & only treats horses.
Oh yes, my reg vets sells Heart guard for about $105 and I get my heartguard at the horse vet for I think $60....


Not that what your vet did in front of people was right but not selling heartworm meds because your dog was not tested in a year is correct procedure. Giving a dog Heartworm prevention when he/she could have it can be fatal. The likelyhood is slim but the procedure your vet took is correct.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

I see and I am very new so I didn't know that it could be fatal. Thank you for letting me know. I have not had a break in their medication. They were at the trainer for a month in May but he said he did give them their medication on June 1st so I do trust that he did. I do take my dogs for vaccinations and yearly exams however I am overdue (last Aug 18th-close enough was the last annual) by a few weeks. Again, thanks for the information. Still her delivery was a bit curt for me. It's all about how it's done and there is no need to be rude. An explanation as to why would have been 1. educational and 2. well received on my part.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

I will disagree on this,
if a dog has been on heartworm meds monthly, even if they miss a month and start back up they are covered.
the medication is recommended every 45 days to break the cycle. So the next dose would knock it out again.
we only give it every month for routine reasons.

Also the amount of ivermec in heartguard is so low that it would not have a fatal effect on any dog just infected with heartworms.
Heartworms can also be treated with higher dosages of ivermec injected to help kill off the population.

The only time it would be dangerous to give meds with out a yearly test is if:
the dog has never been on heartworm meds and has full grown adults blocking the heart, killing these off all at once would kill the dog.

if you have been buying your meds from your vet monthly and go in to purchase more they should feel comfortable giving you more, it was just that, a way to get you in to make more money off you.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Vets like to test annually, not because of the potential income, but because of owner non-compliance. Some people are embarrassed and fib, others don't remember correctly.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Heartworm preventative is a prescription medication and most likely the reason the vet would not dispense more than a dose per dog until they are examined is that the patient must be seen annually in order to legally dispense any prescription medications. Just as our own family doctor cannot refill scripts without seeing us within a year. The Vet is not trying to give you a hard time or trying to take all your money...they are simply trying to care for their patients safely and legally. Vets are not the money grubbing villains that so many accuse them of being.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Melody Losea
Vets are not the money grubbing villains that so many accuse them of being.


I agree. If that is the way that you think about your vet, then you should probably do your vet and yourself a favor and find someone else to care for your dog.

I am a big believer in holistic medicine and I do everything I can to insure my dogs have a healthy immune system. However, I do vaccinate (on a limited schedule - not every year) and I give heartworm prevention monthly. To do otherwise down here in the Southeast is playing with fire, as far as I'm concerned. There are so many heartworm positive dogs around here that it isn't funny, and you just can't convince me that every one of them had a compromised immune system prior to being infected.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Well said Susan!

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

We're talking about a dog here who has been on preventatives and has heartworms. The one thing that seems to be overlooked over and over again is we are all different, dogs are different also. This straight across the board notion that "what's good for one is good for all" is ridiculous.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Did your dog CHEW the heartworm preventative? The chewables must be chewed and not swallowed whole if you want them to work.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Here is another opinion published in the Whole Dog Journal: Heartworm prevention


"..... glomerulonephritis is a potential side effect of heartworm infection."

".....I frequently see people allege that as long as you have a healthy dog, feed a raw diet, and do not overvaccinate, your dog will not get heartworms. If only this were true! These measures may help to some degree, but they are not foolproof. The only way to know for sure that your dog is protected is to give heartworm preventatives. "

".....Update May, 2009: there appears to be an increase in the number of dogs being infected by heartworms, even though they are being given preventative regularly. This risk may increase when preventatives are given less frequently than once a month."

".....It is important to realize that, if you do decide to modify the way these medications are given -- by splitting pills, giving pills less often than monthly, or using reduced dosages -- the guarantees provided by the manufacturers will be invalidated. Under normal usage, if your dog develops a heartworm infection while on one of these heartworm preventatives, the company will pay for treatment, but this is not true if you are using the drugs other than as directed on the label. "

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Here is the freedom of information act summary for Ivermectin if you question how safe it is: Heartguard-30® FDA Approval

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

num num
Here is the freedom of information act summary for Ivermectin if you question how safe it is: Heartguard-30® FDA Approval


"Two male and two female beagle dogs, 10 to 14 months of age, were allocated to each of four treatment groups: ivermectin at 2,500 5,000 or 10,000 mcg/kg body weight or vehicle. Sesame oil was the drug solvent or vehicle. The treatments were administered by gastric intubation. The dogs were observed for 14 days. Emesis, salivation, mydriasis, absence of pupillary response and tremors were seen in some dogs following treatment at the two higher dose levels. One of the dogs given the highest dose became ataxic and sedated. The dog recovered from the sedation within 48 hours of treatment and from the remaining signs 72 hours after treatment. Mydriasis and absence of pupillary response were the only clinically significant signs seen at the lowest ivermectin dose level (2,500 mcg/kg). None of the signs persisted past the sixth day after treatment."

These poor dogs, or should I say guinea pigs.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

to the OP- I don't expect the renal issues are related to the positive heartworm test. It sounds like there is something else going on. I would encourage you to continue follow up with your vet on that issue- the heartworm results very well may need to take a back seat for a bit. Feel free to email me privately if you want to.

There are lots of misconceptions about heartworm disease, preventive meds and also treatment. One of the reasons is that adequate education did not happen many years ago when preventive meds changed from the daily to the monthly. The monthlys work differently and act differently than the daily method and it has also dramatically changed treatment plans as well.

here is a link to the American Heartworm Society- they tend to make the recommendations that many vets will follow

http://www.heartwormsociety.org/

we actually don't know specifically what product the OP was using- they haven't disclosed that.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Not trying to be nasty this morning but the question " Did your dog CHEW the heartworm medication" just cracked me up! My dogs don't know what that word means

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

I am not really clear on something... Did this dog start to vomit after the administration of the heartworm preventative? Before? During? Although it is not very common, some dogs can have a reaction to ivermectin, I had one that had explosive diarrhea within 24 hours of taking the monthly dosage, (we stopped giving it, and started heartworm testing every 6 months). Even though I know yours if vomiting, not having diarrhea, it could still be a reaction. If this is happening, maybe the ivermectin is not being absorbed, because of rapid elimination of the meds via vomiting or diarrhea (hence the positive heartworm test). The vomiting could also be throwing off the dogs liver values, and a whole host of other problems. I believe there is an ivermectin sensitivity test, that is used for Collies, maybe you could do that? Anyways, it is just a thought.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

RESEARCHER
Not trying to be nasty this morning but the question " Did your dog CHEW the heartworm medication" just cracked me up! My dogs don't know what that word means


If your dog doesn't chew it then you should hold it while he nibbles it down.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

To help: dogs with kidney failure will often go off their food and can vomit. I had to change my KF girl's diet a lot to get her to eat but she never did vomit.

Was your dog fasted for 12 hours prior to the blood draw? A recent meal can elevate BUN and creatinine (kidney function in blood work).

If not be sure and fast (no water either) for the next test. Praying the last tests were incorrect and you will get good results this time.

If it turns out she does have KF please do your research. Some vets will tell you to feed low protein but that is no longer advised. High quality protein is what is important and some cases you need a low phosphorous food.

There is great info at www.dogaware.com and here is an article on KF with great info as well.

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/proteins-kidneys-senior-dogs/

As for the heart worm I have no advice having never dealt with it. I do give Interceptor year round and test yearly.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

The worst part about your story is that the vet office insisted your dogs be tested before selling you Heartguard but still dispensed two individual doses to you to give your dogs BEFORE their "mandatory" Tuesday test...that makes NO sense...forget the money factor...your dogs would still be getting Heartguard without proper testing...HUH?!?

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Healthy dogs actually have a bitter tasting blood to parasites. Un-healthy dog's blood is more attracitve them and may taste sweet to them.


LOL I guess i don't get that part! How would we know what they think it taste like?

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Kidney issues you mentioned could very well be a problem caused by ingesting poisons. Honestly, I just don't get what these vets are thinking. Our poor animals are unindated with toxins and expected to thrive. I live in FL and will not and have not given heartworm meds. I do have them tested and they are clear. I prefer a quality food and healthy lifestyle. Good luck with your girl, hopefully you can get her the help she needs. It's unfortunate the pharmeceutical reps are the ones that make the decisions to treat your pet with their products. The newest, the latest, the greatest. I seen it first hand how they would come into a practice and sell their wares to the vet. It wasn't the veterinarian asking for the product, it was the sales promoting the product.

help
WOW! What a message from another aproach, and something for me to think about!

My dog that has a positive heart worm test, also has an out of range blood test on kidneys. (blood work dones in house)

She has been throwing up the past 2 days, (Actually since she was given the B-12 shot & antobodic by the vet, and when I gave her ivomec heart worm preventative yesterday) Today she ate brown rice that i cooked, (boiled) and boiled egg & cottage cheese, and she threw up about 2 hours afterwards.

I gave her about 8 ounces of peda-lite with a syrance. She did not like the tast, but she did swallow it. I am waiting to see if she keeps this down.

Previously, before I took her to the vet, she was not eating her dog food like she usually does. The food is Diamond Premium Edge Chicken & Rice.

She is supposed to have a CBC next week to see if there is another problem besides Heart worms.

I want her well,as you said treat the dog, and also want the heartworms to be gone.

I plan to boil some chicken breast tomorrow
& give that to her with the rice.

Any more suggestions, I greatly do appreciate.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

When she ate, she would throw up a few hours afterwards. She did this for 1 1/2 days. I am not sure if this was all the medicine or what.

Last night I gave her 8 oz of pedealite, (I gave it to her with a syrange) and she did kept it down last night & today.

Today, she age salmon & rice can dog food for sensitive stomach, and she kept that down. Also, she did not throw up after taking the antibodics, and I gave her 8 oz of pedealite.

AND today, she is not acting lathargic.

She is so much better today.

However, I am not sure what is or was wrong with her. They will do a CBC this week, and send it off. Also, they will send off the bloodwork for a 2nd heartworm test.

My vet did say something strange about the Heart worm test, He said it was barely positive!

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

help from OP
When she ate, she would throw up a few hours afterwards. She did this for 1 1/2 days. I am not sure if this was all the medicine or what.

Last night I gave her 8 oz of pedealite, (I gave it to her with a syrange) and she did kept it down last night & today.

Today, she age salmon & rice can dog food for sensitive stomach, and she kept that down. Also, she did not throw up after taking the antibodics, and I gave her 8 oz of pedealite.

AND today, she is not acting lathargic.

She is so much better today.

However, I am not sure what is or was wrong with her. They will do a CBC this week, and send it off. Also, they will send off the bloodwork for a 2nd heartworm test.

My vet did say something strange about the Heart worm test, He said it was barely positive!


Find another vet. A holistic veterinarian would be your best choice. Get another opinion.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Barely positive rescues are sometimes treated, under veterinary supervision since there is some risk, with 10 months or so of heartworm medication.

Also, Ingen lists the genetic test for ivermectin/loperam
ide/etc. drug sensitivity (MDR1) for Labradors. So some must have it, I'd think.
Some dogs do better on Interceptor. Even the low dose.

What one poster wrote about re-testing makes sense, especially since the type of test was not stated that I could find. Was it a smear or an antigen test or what? False positives occur in the older tests, where a different organism can be found in the blood.

Yes, holistic vet might be an option, although you'd also have to be careful there. I sure would think that the kidney issues might be a quicker threat than heartworm disease, but it is a vet's call.

Good luck!
Barely positive is barely positive--caught now, so you are on top of this. My guess agrees with that of another poster, that she reacts to ivermectin and the Gi system disposed of it somewhere for months. I had one rescue who used to stick head behind the couch to do that until I switched brands! I did notice that when they came up, the big rectangular chewables had not dissolved except a bit on edge, 18 hours later! Considering that my dogs gulp way bigger things, if the chewable has to be chewed thoroughly to work, that is a REAL big problem since many dogs, even toys, wolf their food. For her, no ivermectin MIGHT be the way to go.

Re: heartworms in spite of monthly preventative

Re-test