There was a discussion on this board back in August about showing as a hobby. I recently met someone who is showing "just for the fun of it". She is not a breeder and has no intention of breeding her dogs even though she got them on full registration. She is active in rally and obedience, so my guess is that this is just another activity she can do with her dogs. What is the concensus - should the breed ring be reserved for intended breeding stock or is it okay for a pet to be shown in the breed ring to bring the numbers up? Where? All breed shows? What about specialties? Where do you draw the line?

The sport originated as an evaluation of breeding stock, and part of me says that's what it should remain. If they want to show for the fun of it, there are plenty of matches to attend.

What gripes me is those who know their dogs have physical ailments that would keep them from ever breeding, and still show them.

If she has her dogs on full registration and enjoys what she's doing, where is any harm in any of this?

I would be more concerned with someone that wants to only breed and do nothiing else with their dog.

No one said the dogs have physical ailments or did I read the post incorrectly? She's having fun showing in rally and obedience. If she decides to bring the dog to the conformation ring what is the problem? Matches are few and farther between.

I think you people are too worried about others that aren't doing anything wrong. Again, she doesn't want to breed but she does want to show? GOOD FOR HER! I'll say it again, at least she isn't breeding without doing some AKC showing in different venues of it.

Why doesn't everyone worry about themselves?

Any time a dog is shown in the conformation ring, somebody's breeding stock is being evaluated.

What better way to evaluate breeding stock than by what it produces?

Its a sport, let anyone show all they want. Their dog might be better than some that are winning with a professional on the lead. Who knows. Let the judge decide. What the other person was bringing up is, we had rather see this person show, than the many who bring dogs in the ring that they know don't pass elbows, hips, and have other medical problems. They look good, yes. But is this the breeding stock you are talking about. I think not. Happens all the time.

Why should the show ring be for breeding stock only? I have no issue with people showing their dogs for fun/because they like it ... the more competition the better I say! I love it when the classes are large and competition is tough. What "glory" or prestige is there in being a "big fish in a little pond"? I would rather place at a big show with tough competition and lots of really nice dogs than at a small weekend show ... That's when you know you've accomplished something! JMHO

No, the original question said nothing about showing the dog with problems. I brought that up. If you READ my post, it said I only partly believed the sport should remain what it was created to be....an evaluation of breeding stock. Regardless of what we do now and why we do it...the SPORT was created to evaluate breeding stock. And part of me still likes the purity of that. But what I for sure don't like is when folks show dogs with hip/elbow/eye problems. That feels dishonest to me. Even if they are just showing for the fun of it.

Maybe they aren't planning to breed...BUT those of us watching can appreciate OR not their dogs and the pedigrees behind them? We can use this info as our own evaluation of breeding stock / potential?

Makes sense to me for ppl to show regardless of their future plans for the dogs...


I realize you were NOT asking about showing dogs with ailments etc that rule them out as being used in breeding programs......but I AGREE........unless a dog or bitch can in good faith be used in a breeding program then please keep them out of the ring......this means...severe joint issues......seizures etc. JMHO

who ever said that "breeding stock" neccessarily means FUTURE??
someone bred every single dog so what's wrong with showing the PRODUCT????
you people really amaze me.
go worry about something important instead of worrying about whose pet your dogs are going to lose to!!

I love every aspect of this phenominal breed. I love to stand ringside and observe the offering and I love to be the "bird boy" to hunt train. I keep a sense of humor about it all. IF everyone had to run their entry onto a scale and under a wicket how many would still be allowed in the ring or in the field games? Then there's the working condition requirement? Subjective. It is what it is.
There are lots of pet people who enjoy this sport. The majority of the pups produced go to pet homes many on a co-own agreement just in case they turn out to be the "million dollar dog". It really is a crap shoot. Try to enjoy it and love your neighbors please.

Even though the person doesn't plan to breed now that doesn't mean they might not in the future. 25 years ago I had different intentions too. I was never going to show in breed or run in a hunt test. I was never going to own a small dog. I was never going to adopt a handicapped child. I have done all of that since then.

As for evaluating breeding stock -- people look at the pedigrees of dogs that are shown so that is evaluating what other breeding stock has produced. In horses and cats (probably other species, too) altered animals can be shown so those aren't breeding stock themselves but again show what the parents/pedigree is capable of producing which does serve a purpose.

What is wrong with showing your dog for fun? Especially if the dog can win.

I purchased my first Lab a decade ago with no intentions of showing or breeding him. I began showing him (for fun) with no intentions of breeding him.

Now he is finished and has sired multiple litters.

I fell face first into this hobby and now have a small kennel of dogs being shown and bred.

I am much happier to see new folks who enter the breed for their love of dogs and participating in dog events than for a desire to breed, raise, and sell puppies.

JMO

Some feel that possibly taking points away from an animal that will actually be used in and is intended for the breeding pool is the crime in it all. And, before you cock your pistols, I said "some".

If someone has no intention of breeding a dog, imo it should not be kept intact. And a neutered dog cannot be shown.

This discussion brings to mind the old email that circulates, the story of the old man who loved his old pet Labrador so much that every year he showed up at the shows, wrong collar, etc, and proudly pranced his much loved dog around the ring. No harm in it, really. And hey, like it or not, it helps bring the numbers up when entries are down. Might be the one dog who holds the major.

If that person happens to get a ribbon, I'm sure they cherish it. Lets be happy for them.

Anyone who needs to worry about what dogs other people decide to show really has a sad life indeed.
I'll say it again....WHO CARES!?????
Next thing we know, we'll be asked to sign a legal agreement that we promise to breed the dogs that we enter in dog shows!!
SOOOOOOO ridiculous!!!
Get a life. Stop being selfish and find another hobby, please...

While the original purpose of dog shows was to showcase breeding animals, I believe that is no longer
true. Dog shows have evolved into much more. Let's not overlook the social aspects of showing dogs. It's a hobby and hobbies are supposed to be fun. Not every Lab that competes in the breed ring ends up being bred. Not every champion ends up being bred either. As others have pointed out, the Lab in the ring is the result of someone's breeding program, and thus showcases that breeder's lines.
I have no problem with folks showing dogs that will not ever be bred because of some genetic health issue of some sort. I don't believe in the "stealing points" argument. If my dog is not good enough to beat all comers on the day, then my dog just isn't good enough. Period.

Thank Dog nobody kicked me out of my first lab specialty. My boy was very nice - but not the same as all the rest of the dogs in that region - he stuck out like the jolly green giant!

But thanks to Michael Silva, Ron & Jen Kelly and the late Martha Shaw we had a wonderful time. Even though we hurt their eyes with our wrong collar (choke chain & snap leash) not to mention I SUCKED @ showing (somedays I still do) they talked to me, encouraged me, gave me tips, fed me fudge and taught me a bunch.

Thank you to all my others "helpers & encouragers" along the way too.You all know who you are and I adore everyone of you!

I brought the old "Jolly Green" out of retirement this past summer and showed him @ 8 yrs. of age to help build a major - he still didn't look as typey as the rest of the labs in the ring - but he absolutely LOVED every minute out there with me again. The crowd around the ring clapped, laughed and cheered for him -he was bouncing and leaping like "OH the Dog Show, Goody we're at a dog show YIPPEE!!!"

If you and your dog enjoy or LOVE doing it - I say GO FOR IT! Make some memories, meet new friends, have some fun, take some pictures, share your victories and experiences with your kids & grandkids, life is too short to worry about little issues like this.

JMveryHO,
Valerie Jones
JonValer Labradors

Thank you for this reply. It is exactly what I was looking for. What people think and why. I was not voicing my opinion in the matter at all, nor was I being disparaging toward that person. I just wanted a consensus on what people thought and ended up with people reading more into it and thinking the worst of me. I think your statement that "If my dog is not good enough to beat all comers on the day, then my dog just isn't good enough." hit the nail right on the head. That's what it is all about.

I have dogs that are well bred, that I breed and that are shown ... By handlers (here come the flames ...)

I also have a dog that has health issues and as a result will never be available for breeding. BUT I show him myself because I want to have some fun at the shows too .... Sorry if he beats some of your dogs (and he does - he's quite a competitive dog) but that's your problem, not mine .... so sorry to sound unkind.

Get a life, let people show for fun - it's what will keep this sport alive otherwise we'll have shows with 5 entries and no one will ever finish a championship. You just never know - that newbie showing their "pet" dog may end up being the next top breeder in the nation coming down the pike ...

This reminds me of a true story (not sure if the old man and his lab showing is true or not but I like it).

Last year at a pug specialty a woman showed her pug in Bred By. This woman had cancer and could barely get around the ring with her dog. She ended up taking WB. There were many wet eyes at ringside. A well known pug owner was at ringside and made some not nice comment about her winning as she was no longer breeding. I said to her this might be the last time she gets to show her pug, you have many shows and specialties ahead of you hopefully, be happy for her. 2 months later the ill pug owner was dead so it was indeed her last show ever. She beat my dog, too but I'm very happy she won that day.

I would have to conclude that if the judges excuse (ie) for lameness, then what the goal would be (to exhibit your dogs) would be to compete for the points on any given day, with a healthy dog, that is capable of being used for breeding. Hence - we cannot show in most classes if the dog is not intact. It does bother me that someone would want to gather points on a dog that will not be used because of health issues. I'm not saying that if your dog has a Grade 1 elbow (that may be a "breeder's option') that he shouldn't be shown. But, if a male is sterile - I would be opposed to him being shown.

You know what? I personally know of more than one "big name" breeder who has bred a dog/bitch that doesn't have all the proper clearances. That, to me, is more of a problem than someone showing a dog that will never be bred because of some genetic issue and is having fun doing it.
Lighten up, people.

And you know that many of them are Judges who showed dogs they knew they would never breed because of failed clearances but needed the CH for points for their licenses!!!
Honestly though there are many CH that aren't worthy of breeding to.

But as long as we are all having fun showing and learning and looking at what is being produced that it more of a value than an actual CH title.

Not sterile - far from it, but scored 30% on his hips with PennHip. Never had him OFA'd .. just made the decision not to breed him based on his hip scores at age 2 .....

If you don't like the fact that I win with him, don't show.

Oh, good grief. If someone's dog is eligible to be shown, they have every right to show it. Their future intentions are their own business.

I think it is fine to show the dog whether or not it will be bred. The show ring really isn't about showing breeding stock anymore and is more of a social hobby. A lot of people aren't interested in breeding to the standard and breed to personal preference, and a large percentage of Labradors shown have never been worked in the field, so we are already far removed from the original purpose of dog shows. Most of the males shown in conformation will never be bred or be bred on a very limited basis. Many of the females will be bred despite their conformation. It is your money and if you want to get out there and have fun with your dog, go for it.

You just never know when the stunning dog who is someones beloved pet and backyard dog, will come out and shine through and take your breath away.
More power to someone who wants to show and be judged by that judge on that day.

Why are people nervous about a dog who is in the ring?

Because they're worried they might LOSE to it ...

Following this thread has made me chuckle a bit...so thanks for that folks.

Think about how many puppies are shown and many who earn their CH before they are even old enough for final clearances. Sometimes they go no further after this and end up being wonderful pets. How is someone showing a dog that they do not intend to breed any different?

I started out with a dog that ended up not something I wanted to breed to after I gained more knowledge in the ring. She finished her CH and is simply our pet. In this instance, this gave a new person the education and knowledge to make decisions on when and if they wanted to begin a breeding program and exposed me to many other tenured breeders that I could get knowledge from.

Let's face it...this hobby is not getting any less expensive and majors are harder to find. If someone wants to show their dog...who is it hurting? Maybe they have a dog from a pedigree that I may discover I want to use. Maybe it will give me some idea of how a certain dog is producing. Sorry but the big name boys are not always the best match for what I am trying to achieve in my own back yard.

Wish we could all just relax and enjoy our time with our fellow exhibitors and the wonderful dogs that enrich our lives so much. Stop worrying about trying to control everyone else...who knows maybe your blood pressure will drop a bit!