Hey everyone....

I have a question- i have a 4 1/2 week old litter here...and their razor teeth are in. If i am going to see a good bite or a bad bite (over/under) - at what age will i see it??

My last litter, I had an overbite puppy- not noticeable until 6 weeks of age and wondering if bites if bad- can be seen earlier than that? i'd never had an overbite before that one.
So far, everyone looks good- wondering if it is safe to say they will continue to be good at this age?

TIA

I could tell by about 3 weeks that something was off with one pup in my litter.

thanks for the reply. and by 8 weeks was it alot "off" or did it stay just about the same?

think if at 4 1/2 weeks if it looks good here, it will stay good? or can things change quickly?

The bite was worse by 7 weeks and I pulled canines at 8.5 with a local dental specialist.

The bite is still bad at just over a year, not AS bad, but still an overbite.

I can tell before their teeth come in if there is a problem usually.
And no, just because they look good at 7 weeks does not mean they will stay good.
Trust me...

brdr - Thanks for the reply. after the first overbite in my last litter- i am looking at bites earlier. I used to just wait until 7-8 weeks and look at that time to know- especially when i was looking for my keepers.

What age would you say it's safe to look and know that the bite they have is the bite that will be? I'm not always in a position to run on two pups - which is normally why i just looked closer to their ages when almost ready to leave.

melissak - my last overbite - we had the bottom canines cut and filled - but my vet wouldn't do it at 8 weeks. We held him back until he was 16 weeks old - as my vet refuses to put them thru that so young. That pup stayed here with me until i knew all was well with him- and then he was placed - and now at over a year old - he's going in for neutering and he doesn't need anything done to his adults. :-) It was a good sized overbite too.

Perhaps a dumb question....but why would you pull/file down teeth??? Does this help/prevent problems as they grow or ??? Just wondering & TIA.

we cut and filled because the bottom canines were puncturing the roof of the mouth. with that boy's overbite, his bottom canines were on the inside of his top canines . cutting and filling (not filed) to give his bottom jaw a chance to grow without damaging his roof of his mouth.
It grew enough over the next few months to not need anything done as an adult as we were prepared to do if needed.
We didn't remove them - because my vet strongly feels that it changes the support of the jaw. so he cuts and fills them in so the roots aren't exposed. his timing was perfect. by the time the tooth starts to die off - it falls out anyway!

Tks for the info Tina! Always good to learn something new to start the day off!

Anyone know the genetics of overbites?

Anon - I wish i knew the genetics of it. The only thing i can do is scratch off mixing those two pedigrees again. But then again- one overbite in a litter of 9 wasn't too bad.

CM - it's always nice to learn something knew- especially to start off the day :-) In our case, learning about the overbite and the procedures and lots of research, it's quite possible it all paid off and that is why he doesn't need any correction now as an 'almost adult'. Keeping him until 4 months of age was a joy though- he was a little love bug - and moreso when we spoiled him rotten because he was my first "special" puppy. It was sad to see him go to his new home- but a joy to get updates on him and to see him once in a while since he's still fairly close.

Tina, it sounds like you put a lot of yourself into your pups and I bet it's very appreciated by the new owners too!

Severe overbites are often called "parrot mouths" and they are visible at birth if you are looking. By 1 week of age a breeder can see that the parrot mouthed pup will have a slight gap between the bottom jaw and the upper jaw. Usually by 3 - 4 weeks the inexperienced breeder will notice an "overhang" and the bottom jaw does not match up with the top.

Pulling or filing down the bottom canines is a procedure that is not necessary but often recommended. The puppy canines and adult canines will make holes to sit in the upper palate however this happens as the dog grows and the palate adjusts and this bite becomes "normal" for the dog. The palate does not bleed or cause friction in any way since the teeth sit in their spots 24/7.

I have seen several parrot mouths that have had absolutely nothing done to baby or adult teeth and the dog is not in any pain and functions very normally - retrieving, hunting, etc.

The bottom jaw will sometimes continue growing and shorten the gap slightly in parrot mouths, however the condition is genetic and predetermined so the dog will have an overbite no matter what - bottom canines left, pulled, or filed.

Parrot mouths are absolutely produced more by individual dogs. I had one in a litter sired by a particular dog and another sired by a son of that dog and have known many other breeders who have produced parrot mouths when breeding to that dog. If you have produced one or more in a litter then keep in mind what lines were used for the future.

It's not something that I discount since puppies need nothing done when they go home or as adults. Some other veterinarians will recommend all sorts of things but it's completely not necessary.

I'm not so sure what you see at birth is indicative of an overbite:

According to Merck Veterinary Manual:

Puppies are born with “overshot” maxillas (brachygnathia), which allow the neonate to nurse. As the animal grows and the transition from the mother’s milk to solid food occurs, the mandible goes through a growth spurt, nearly catching up to its relative adult percentage of jaw length. If this spurt does not occur and the deciduous dentition erupts, the mandibular canines will most likely be distal to behind the maxillary canines. This creates a malocclusion that can prevent the mandible from developing to its proper length. If this occlusal pattern is noticed in a puppy, the best therapy is to remove the mandibular canine teeth (cautiously so as not to damage the permanent tooth bud). If the mandibular incisors are excessive in length and occluded behind the dental papilla, they should be extracted using the same care. As a result, the mandible will have the opportunity to reach its genetic potential, thus averting problems with the permanent dentition. If the animal is genetically predetermined to have a significant overbite, this therapy will not affect the outcome.

Bites can go bad at any time, I had one pup from my last litter, scissors at 8 weeks, checked again at 6 months as she was being show trained and then again at 8 months and at 8 months bite was undershot :{, have had one girl go level at 2 1/2 years so you never know.

Had a bitch at 8 weeks with a significant over bite, with indentations in the roof of her mouth due to the canines. The vet over seeing her care opted not to file or pull the teeth until the adult teeth came in. Well she is 6 months old now, dead on scissor bite, no interventions!

Another thing to consider is - how many breeders actually check the mouth on a stud dog to see if it is correct before they use him? I know of at least one stud dog that has an underbite and the owner does not tell bitch owners. If we don't check we will never know.

awww, thank you CM for posting that. I like to think i put alot of myself in my babies. 8 weeks goes so fast, have to enjoy every minute with them while i can. And of course...i like to make them as easy as possible to live with for the new owners/families.

Following our posts today- there was some great informative posts to read too- and i wanted to thank everyone for replying to me today. We'll see how goes our current pups at 8 weeks, and hope the "keeper" stays with a correct bite the rest of her/his life!

Thanks again everyone!

Tina, we recently added another lab and truly appreciate all the effort, time, etc. his breeder put into him. Pays off in spades & Jackson is joy at 8.5 weeks!