Would it be possible for top stud dog owners to get EIC & CNM Clearances for their top producing stud dogs & post them on their websites?

When I find a stud dog that is the type I want, he does not have EIC or CNM Clearances.

When I find a stud dog that has EIC & CNM Clearance, he is not the type I want.

What are my options, as a breeder?

What are yours?

Keep looking & asking until you find what you want. JMO

"When I find a stud dog that is the type I want, he does not have EIC or CNM Clearances."


That is because great dogs are not produced by breeding to clearances. Occasionally, you will find one who has the clearances you need, but he was most likely not purposefully bred that way.

CMN is not common in show lines, so relatively few people have tested for it. The field people do test for it. I am told that there are show dogs who are carriers for CMN, so if you know it is in your lines, maybe it would be a good idea to find a tested stud dog. I bred to a specialty WD with an SH fairly recently who was EIC tested. If you have field lines you definitely need to know CMN status.

EIC is widespread in both show and field lines, and more and more people are testing. Many are putting it on their website. Just keep looking. Some very popular stud dogs who are EIC carriers have sons that have been tested clear.

Just curious--do you test your bitches for EIC and CNM?

Oh so CNM is not considered "widespread" among show lines but EIC is? So if we have been breeding for 30 years and have not had an EIC pup we are told we still should be testing for EIC and breeding accordingly in order to never produce an EIC puppy right? So why are we not told to test for CNM and breed that out so we never produce one of those puppies as well? Who is saying that EIC is "widespread" among show lines and CNM is not?

The reason "top" stud dogs do not have EIC or CNM tests is that breeders who produce dogs that are commonly used are those that have been in the breed for a long time. They've seen the new and improved breeding tests come along and they stay steady and stick to what has been working for them. The ones I talk to who have the dogs that everyone uses most are NOT going to be testing for EIC any time soon. They just don't see it as a problem in show lines since they breed a lot of litters and people use their dogs a lot and yet most have never had EIC in their lines (yet their dogs are being labeled as "carrier" and even "affected). If they tested their dogs it would be going against their breeding theories and if their top dog came back carrier or affected then people would panic and gossip would fly. They don't need that headache nor do they need people who MUST test for everything breeding to their dogs. There are also many many people out there who won't spend the money to test their bitches and simply look for a clear/normal dog on all accounts and again most stud dogs owners do not need those people breeding to their dogs anyway.

My bitches ARE tested, and one is a carrier, which is why I am concerned about this condition. And I know where it came from, and I can assure you that there is a good reason why it became so widespread rapidly so that a condition we had never heard of suddenly has become of such concern. So far I have not personally known of a single case of CMN in show lines, but I know of a dozen or more of cases of EIC, and I mean collapsing dogs, not dogs testing affected that have not collapsed. I look upon these tests as allowing me to breed to dogs that I might otherwise be afraid to use. They certainly aren't the only criteria I use in selecting a stud dog. R

Maybe if you offer to pay ALL the expenses for the stud dog you like to have this test done the owner of the stud dog might be willing to test the dog. I too believe that most top breeders consider the test worthless and unreliable, I do not nor will I test my dogs either.

I have a few studs who are being used a bit right now. It has never been my intention to get any of them tested for EIC or CNM. Three of mine are now EIC tested because bitch owners came to me with EIC carrier bitches and wanted the test enough to offer to pay for it themselves.

Now 3 of my studs are tested and EIC clear. No one has ever asked me about the CNM test but I'd be willing to have it done as well if the bitch owner would like it enough to pay for it.

Also...my results are not posted on OFA and I don't put them on my webpage since some are tested and some are not. I didn't want to give the impression that the dogs without the "EIC clear" by their name are automatically carriers or affected. If you find a stud you like why not call or shoot the stud owner an e-mail. Maybe their dog has had the test but they just don't advertise stud services based on it. Lord knows I don't.

My dogs are a combination of field and show. I have one CNM carrier bitch, one EIC carrier bitch(out of a CH/MH sire). ALL of my dogs are tested for BOTH and the others are clear for both.

All the information is posted on my web site for each dog, along with info about what "carrier" means and links to the two info sites for EIC and CNM.

I won't consider a stud dog that hasn't been tested for both, along with the other standard things.

MWK

I have recently tested 2 of my girls, one of which I received the restults today for EIC.

They are from completely different bloodlines, sired by famous top producing stud dogs, speciality winning dams. The pedigree's are awesome on both sides.

Both girls have been bred, and never produced any off spring with EIC.

I am in tears as we speak, they are both rated "affected" for EIC but with no history of episodes or callapses. Both girls are approximately 5+ years of age.

I have received the CNM test restults on the 1st girl, and she is CLEAR. I will not have the CNM test results on the other girl until next week.

Take a deep breath - you can still breed your girls - just choose clear boys. EIC isn't a death sentence - just use the information wisely. As far as CNM - I've NEVER heard of a show Lab with the disease and no one I know tests for it, other than people in Europe who are required to test for it with some registries. My dogs in Europe who have been tested have all been clear and I have no intention of testing my dogs here for it.

I own 5 dogs. I have 4 EIC carriers and 1 EIC affected. The EIC affected is 12 years old and has never collapsed. She has had 3 litters, no reports of her get collapsing, however, I know of one granddaughter that has.

It's a personal decision, but I have decided to look for EIC clear studs if at all possible to breed to the EIC carriers. It will not be the only criteria that I look for. However, if I find two quality boys that I really like and can't decide between, one is EIC clear, one is unknown, I will chose the EIC clear stud with all other things equal.

Do what you have to do. Five years down the road, you may find your actions were justified or not. That goes for all of us, regardless what approach we take.

I had no problem testing my boy. He isn't a "top" Stud dog, but is being used. A bitch owner came to me with an EIC carrier bitch, asked if I would do the EIC test. She said she really liked my boy, but he wasn't tested for EIC. Since I planned on doing the test this Fall anyway, I told her sure and I took his sample and sent it off. His results : Clear. Didn't do the CNM, but will be sending it off in Oct (didn't dawn on me at the time that both tests could be done with the same sample LOL). I think you will just have to keep looking and see if the Stud owner would be willing to test for them. I don't know about you paying for them. I personally would not ask a Bitch owner to pay, but that's just me. Good luck !!