What are reasons for still births in a healthy, first litter, three and a half year old. Sixty two days gestation, uneventful labor.

Was there a lot of time in between pups?

Did you have any live puppies? Can you give us more details?

No.

10 total, lost 5. All pups 12oz to a pound. All sacks intake. 3 without cords attached.

I'm so sorry for the losses. Did you send a puppy for necropsy?

How many hours were there between the first puppy and the last?

Possibly premature placenta detachment, but can't why that happens. Out of curiousity, in the order or birth, was it rotating live, stillborn, live, stillborn, or did you have several in a row DOA?

Several in a row.

Sounds like placental detachment, but you'll probably never know. Just out of curiosity - how was the breeding done - shipped semen?

Side by side. Natural.PY8H

Still wondering how much time passed from the time the first puppy was born to when the last puppy was born.

I am really sorry you lost 5 pups, that must be difficult for you. I think it's hard for anyone to give you an answer why it happened.

Have you thought of discussing it with a repro vet? You *might* get some possible answers but I doubt you'll ever know exactly why.

I would have a vaginal culture done on the bitch that whelped to make sure there is no infection that could have caused a high-mortality rate.

This will probably never happen again for you.

Condolences.

Geneskee

5 hrs.

I really wish we could help you find a reason, but we probably can't. Can you tell us this: Were the pups born completely dead, or did they try to breath, but didn't make it? Were they decomposed at all? Were they really big? If she had 10 pups in 5 hours, that is text book. I have had a similar experience, had a necropsy done on one pup, and got no answer. Breeding really sucks sometimes.

Vet. unsure. Probably bacterial. There is some controversy about giving Cephalexon, not sure of the spelling right now. Ten days prior to breeding. I did give Cephal for the 10 days. But, I have discovered that even if your girl does get pregnant, the infection can be so strong, it could effect the pups. I'd like to take her for a vaginal smear, but, she is sooo apprehensive about leaving the house. She, is still looking for her lost pups, breaks my heart. The surviving pups are gaining weight, doing well.

All perfectly formed. No breath sounds. I tried to revive them even if they had not taken a breath. I did everything, rubbing, swinging, mouth to mouth. Its amazing, even if you know you did everything you could to save a pup, it still tugs at your heart. Her mother had 8 pups in 8 hours.

Sometimes first timers don't push hard enough to take the puppies out on time after placenta detaches. She had a fast whelping process, but still it is not uncommon to loose some puppies in a first litter. She'll probably do better in a second litter, now that she knows better. I always give antibiotics after a whelping like hers.

The biggest reason for still borns is too long in the birth canal, death by oxygen deprivation. Once the placenta separates there is a limited amount of time for the puppy to be born. If the girl is experiencing weak contractions, which can happen for several reasons, low calcium, genetics, etc. there is the risk of still borns.
There are other reasons of course but I have found this to be the biggest.

I agree with Gregg.

I am so sorry for your loss. It is never easy.

Thanks Gregg. You explained it well, you always do tho. It's nice to have long-time breeders willing to share their expertise on a list.

It's sad to know it's oxygen deprivation. I figured that was it but never wanted to think of it that way.

Do you find the larger the litter, the more stillborns? I have a bitch that recently had her 4-th litter, 3 litters were 10 pups, 1 litters was 11 pups and there was never a still-born pup. Do you think this was luck, genetics, a good whelper or something else? Do you think she could pass this on to her daughters? I have 2 of her pups that have recent, final clearances but they're being shown and not bred yet. I am keeping 1 or 2 from this last litter of hers that is turning 8 weeks. She's going to be paid back for her hard work in the breed ring and whelping box we did together. For starters, I just got her a new Kuranda bed with a thick cushion for her only that is in my bedroom. All my girls are treated well but she's almost 7, time for anything she wants haha.

So what do you think of these magnets some posters are talking about? I'm a non-believer sorry to say.

I've heard about them from breeders into only holistic medicine. I can't say I'm sold on them at all. I helped with a whelping a few weeks past, they did nothing to help. 3 of 6 pups were lost, every other 1 was DOA. I think it was 1 horn that was a problem. What can magnets do for that?

Well we are still learning but the common thread is that we always have a bigger chance of a still born on the last puppy as they normally have longer to travel plus the uterus is tired at this point. Basically we try to manage that last puppy and about 25% of the time we fail. Most of the time when we do fail we can look back and determine what we could have done differently and try to apply that to the next litter. Even on our last litter early this spring we lost the last puppy and realized that we were not proactive enough. This was this particular girls third litter, on the prior two litters she had always taken a long time to whelp them, well over an hour and change per puppy. On this litter the average time dropped to around 45 minutes including the two hours for the last DOA puppy. The only thing different was the food we fed her this time versus the other two litters. We are thinking that with what we fed her, she was better able to absorb the calcium which gave her more strength than she had prior.
I guess what I am saying, it does not matter how long that you are in the breed, you continue to learn. We were fortunate to have a couple long time breeders to mentor us and they passed on to us not only what they already knew but also as they discovered new things, they passed this on to us.




To each their own, we handle our litters a certain way and quite frankly we do well safely getting our puppies born. On our last three litters we lost two puppies, the one I feel we mismanaged and the other was just too large to pass so we ended up at our vet’s office at 3:00 am to remove that puppy. I have no clue about magnets. We certainly take an active role in getting our puppies born, most of the time before that baby hits the floor we have grabbed it making sure and doing what it takes to get it breathing on its own We basically monitor every step in the whelping process doing what it takes to be sure everything moves along on a timely basis.

I agree to each his own on how you whelp litters.

We never whelp a litter without Nikken magnets (magboy and mag flex).

We had a still born years ago that we could not revive no matter what we did. 5-10 minutes (don't remember exactly its been so long) of using magnetic therapy (magboys) and this pup began to move and breath and was fine. He grew up to be a therapy dog and live a full life. Obviously we nick named him magnet.

The pups are placed on a magflex with a towel over it after their initial nursing.

The magnetic field (north and south) is natural in the body. Spinning these fields into the body promotes better blood flow. This is why magnets help people and animals in healing from injury or illness.

http://www.nikken.com/shop/details/!magboy

http://www.nikken.com/shop/details/!kenko-flex

I use the mag flex for my back and it works wonders.