Can someone tell me what Int. Ch. means please? I assume that it means International Champion. Is the definition written somewhere? Some people assume that an Am. Can. Championship can be recorded as Intl. Ch. .....I have a feeling that somewhere I've seen something making me think that this is not so and that it's an FCI title.

Neither. What MOST people in the states refer to when using the Int. Ch. title is a UCI championships. It's a title from the International All-Breed Canine Association of America (IABCA). It is a title virtually any Lab can obtain as it's non-competitive and pretty meaningless in my opinion. I've done it once (and obtained a title on my dog in 3 shows) - it can be fun, but it's nowhere near a "real" title like an AKC championship. Not is it anything like an FCI championship, which is much more difficult to obtain than an AKC title.

OR, it's an Internation Kennel Club "championship" which is meaningless as well. Similar to United Kennel Club. Virtually any Lab can get them with little merit and they mean nada compared to the American Kennel Club championship that most of us work so hard to obtain.

Thanks for that!
I've just been reading about these titles on http://www.iabca.com/titlerequirements.html! Why would anyone advertize a title meaning 'certificate of beauty'. LOL
I agree - sounds impressive to someone who doesn't know any better.

It can be done in as short as a weekend as a poster said once. If it can be achieved in a conformation ring that fast, it doesn't mean sqwat to me.

"It can be done in as short as a weekend as a poster said once. If it can be achieved in a conformation ring that fast, it doesn't mean sqwat to me."

So, according to your statement, a beautiful labrador that is able to complete its AKC championship with 3 straight 5-point majors in one weekend (rare, yes, but it's been done) "doesn't mean squat"?

Have a great afternoon!

I have dogs with INT CH titles. To me it is comparable to getting a 1 point in a regular AKC show. When I see a dog with an INT title it tells me that the dog has, at least, no mayor faults and it is close enough to the standard to be called a Labrador.
To get the INT Title the dog has to obtain 3 VH1 cards. All dogs entered older than 18 month can get it -not only one like in AKC- There is 4 shows in a weekend, so most likely all dogs get the INT title in 1 weekend.
They are more expensive than the AKC, but there is almost no pro handlers there.
I've seen dogs (not mine before you ask) get VH2, which is not good to get an INT title, but a "National" Title. To me a "national title is a shame, and the dog should not be breed.
There is always 2 judges from another country-mostly CAN or Mex- and 2 american judges-same AKC judges-

When you see dogs like INT/LUX/NETH/AM.CH.
Raintree Slippery When Wet JH, it is also an INT CH, but it means a "true International Champion" a totally different thing, and the worthiness is way way higher.

So do you also look down your nose at people who choose to do the Labrador Club conformation certificate? The purpose of both in my opinion is to show that the dog meets the breed standard, with no disqualifying faults as a previous poster stated.

With this organization, you will have multiple judges reviewing your dog in at least three different shows. With the CC, it is two judges, one time.

Both provide a detailed report on your dog's good points and not-so-good points, which is a learning tool for the dog owner.

I have had two dogs with CC certificates, one with AKC breed points and I have one with this title where I spell out the organization to clarify what the title means.

My main interest is not chasing conformation titles because I believe Labs should obtain working titles, but I do like to show that my dogs meet the standard.

This organization is one way to do that.

MWK

It is very wellknown that the competition for Int Ch in UKC is rather smell and less difficult compared to achieving 3 5point majors over a span of a weekend. If a dog did that in one weekend - you think wow! that must be a damn nice dog to beat all that competition.

we have used the international shows for dogs just getting out in the ring. They are fun, a real social event with no back stabbing or handlers verses owners and I appreciate the written critiques by the 4 judges.

Plus those pups seem to love walking around with their medallions on :O)

First off, you have NO idea what you are talking about... Int Ch has NOTHING to do with the United Kennel Club. So before you make an ignorant comment, get your facts straight It is now well known YOU have no clue and you dont proof read!

I agree with first off.

I can't beleive how many people is so ignorant and write about something they don't have a clue. The dog world goes beyonf the AKC, your world is so limited to only the US, there is a world wide canine federation that almost all the world belongs too, of course the US don't, you have the AKC where you change all the standards and change all the breeds, this is the FCI, Fédération Cynologique Internationale, they have the International CH and you need 8 points from 8 different judges from at least 4 different countries (this means International), you can only get 1 point in one show no matter how many entries, this points are only in specific shows, not in every show from FCI, and you are lucky if in one country there are 4 international shows in one year, if you want to get the International Championship from the FCI in one year, you have to go to different Countries.
Before you write about something, do your homework.
Don't confuse the International Championship from the FCI to the Int Ch you are talking about and you have only in US.
The International Championship from the FCI is very hard to get, it might not be a US title, but to us, normal humans from all over the world, it means a lot.
Don't disrespect a Championship just because is not from US.
I know my english is terrible and you are going to hang me, but we have to learn at least three languages, not only english.

I show my dogs in the Int. shows, mainly because they are FUN...which is why I began showing! AKC shows, are not much fun anymore. and before you think my dogs have no merit, mine have rec'd the int. CH. in 3 straight shows, going BOB, and group wins....and also recieve Can. CH., and one recently won a 5 pt AKC major/specialty show win.

Cecile, what part of the last post you didn't understand. There are NO internationational shows in the Unites States that count for the FCI, AKC doesn't recognize FCI, the international championship that your dogs have is a completely different title than the real International Championship from the FCI.

Brodie, (Raintree Slippery When Wet) achieved his FCI INT.CH. in Europe. He had to compete in several field trials (not hunt tests) and get qualifing scores to get his INT.CH. It is not easy and not very many Labs have a true INT.CH.

For all the ignorants, specialy Yepers, that wrote in this post:

FCI REGULATIONS FOR THE INTERNATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP


I. FCI INTERNATIONAL BEAUTY CHAMPIONSHIP FOR ALL BREEDS TOGETHER.

To be eligible for the title of International Beauty Champion, the dogs must have obtained :

a) in three different countries, under four different judges, eight Certificats d'Aptitude au Championnat International de Beauté (CACIB) no matter the number of dogs;

b) between the first and last CACIB, a minimum period of one year and one day must have elapsed. This period is to be understood as follows : for example, from January 1st, 1996 to January 1st, 1997.

This doesn't sound like the absurd championship you were talking about and won in 1 weekend, does it?

IN YOUR FACE!!!!!!

In addition for that ignorant Yeppers and his pals:

In addition to a) and b), the hunting dog must have passed a hunting test/trial specific to its breed in which the Certificat d'Aptitude au Championnat National de Travail (CACT) is competed for. The date of the test/trial is not taken into account.

Yeppers, please post when one of your dogs get this title that means sqwat to you, what a bunch of ignorants!!!!

You know, if people want to chalk up a maximum of titles in just about any sort of competition (or lack thereof), they are free to do so.

I just wish somebody had had the good sense to patent the various titles, because it is a headache trying to decipher them. Are the recent organizations really so lacking in imagination that they cannot step outside the few letters of the alphabet used since time immemorial by the old institutions? Or do they deliberately adopt a much diluted version of a tried-and-true system, in hopes that some of the prestige will rub off?

The much coveted FCI CACIB, which can only be won by one dog of each sex at an International Show, is useless for a Lab without the ability to run successfully in an open field trial. Why use the Int.Ch. title for something completely different - there must have been other alternatives!!! Now somebody mentioned a CC as being some sort of conformation certificate? The "original" CC in England is certainly not delivered to dogs that "just" conform - again only one dog of each sex gets it at a Championship Show. Wouldn't it be less confusing to use a CA (conformation accreditation), a CD (conformation diploma) or a DLLB (dog looks like breed)???!!

And you think that paying a handler to put an AKC championship on a dog means the dog has breeding merit?

Are you watching the same shows I am, where even lame dogs get placements if the lead is held by the right person?

Or perhaps you think that all the dogs whose owners can't afford to pay a handler to get the AKC championship don't have merit?

You can buy an AKC championship; it just takes longer and costs more than other championships. And that, my friends, is why AKC entry levels are dropping despite a steady increase in the number of shows available. and why AKC is developing a Grand Championship to keep more people in the game. (Funny, isn't that the title developed by UKC?)

Read the WHOLE thread - the INT CH most people use in the US isn't an FCI championship, aka a "real" INT CH - it's the rather bogus IABCA title that can be finished in a weekend. Yes, a true INT CH is a very difficult title to obtain, which is why people pawn off their "fake" INT CH as something meaningful.

Personally, I don't even list on my pedigrees the one IABCA INT CH one of my girls finished in one weekend because I don't think it means anything and I don't want people to think I think it does!

To JP,
Can't you read?, for a dog to have the International Championship from FCI, besides the points you need for conformation in different countries and with different judges you also need:

In addition to a) and b), the hunting dog must have passed a hunting test/trial specific to its breed in which the Certificat d'Aptitude au Championnat National de Travail (CACT) is competed for. The date of the test/trial is not taken into account.

Where did you get that the dogs that win this title are useless for a Lab without the ability to run successfully in an open field trial? Ignorant.

JP, read before you write. Brodie had to compete in several field trials to get his INT.CH. How ignorant people can be

Oh boy, my english must be really poor!! What I was trying to get across is the fact that simply totting up CACIBs at international FCI shows would be useless, since the title of Ch.IB (or International Champion) can only be homologated by dogs that have run AT LEAST ONE field trial successfully. This was purely in comparison with the requirements for the "other" Int.Ch. title.

And yes, your dog can run as many field trials as it wants, it only takes ONE success for the title in question. BTW, this is a title I have put on a dog of my own production, so maybe I do have a clue about what I'm writing... even if some have trouble understanding me...

Oh yeah sure you have put on a dog of your own production the FCI International Championship , in what state

Can this really be happening? Have I been writing on this board for so long that somebody even thinks I'm American?

Try Int., Swiss, German VDH, DRC, Vet. Champion & Trialer Toy Boy of Rivendell

I think people get far too caught up in titles and use them more for one-upmanship than as a tool for evaluating dogs. Titles can be meaningless; it is what one learns about their dog while earning the title that is important. To some, a WC means the dog is an outstanding working dog; to others, it is no measure of work ethic and simply means the dog has basic retrieving instincts and has met the minimum requirements to earn a working title. But at least everyone knows what standard the dog had to pass to achieve the title – what the title actually signifies varies greatly from person to person.

I took my first show dog to some local IABCA shows because I wanted to get started in a more relaxed atmosphere. I found some of the written comments to be helpful and others to be pretty generic – the quality of critiques is only as good as the judges they hire, but that is true of any show, and I have seen poor judging at all levels of shows, from all-breed CKC and AKC shows to specialty shows. My dog earned an IABCA CH but I do not think that has any correlation to the quality of my dog, other than he meets minimum breed standards. He went on to earn a CKC CH and numerous AKC specialty placements, as well as advanced obedience and field titles. It is the sum total of his accomplishments that speak more to his quality than one particular title. I do think the IABCA evaluation is helpful to performance folks who have no interest in showing but who want to ensure the dog is bred to a standard. I do not believe the IABCA title is equivalent to an AKC point as there is no competition to earn the title; an AKC point cannot be earned without competition. The dog may certainly be deserving of AKC points, but an IABCA title is not indicative of that. I have seen IABCA CH’s that are nice pets and others that have gone onto win BISS at a specialty.

High quality competition is what really helps one evaluate the merits of their own dog and whether it is a dog worthy of breeding. I have been to some small all-breed shows where the quality of dogs was very nice and have been to some major entry shows where some of the classes were huge but the quality was scarce. But you won’t know unless you participate, and the judge can only select from the dogs that are present. I personally think it is great when people are active with their dogs, regardless of the venue, and belittling accomplishments does nothing to support the sport of dogs. We all start somewhere – the best emails I get are from puppy buyers whose dog just earned a CGC or WC or RN – they are soooo excited and who knows, that RN may be a UD someday!

I like the fact that a true FCI Int. CH must be proven in the field before titling – that title would be far more meaningful to me than any CH title in this country.

Ops!, my mistake! , new on this.

No problem - but, for a newcomer, you sure come on board all guns firing!!

I'm never surprised about what people say on here any more. Nor am I surprised at the lack of basic reading comprehension prior to going off on one tangent or another. As we often witness, this usually results in an energetic, though misguided, tirade aimed directly at a poster whose words actually do convey an intelligent thought. At the risk of generating a cockeyed response from someone who cannot comprehend a properly constructed sentence, I rarely post. My observation is simply that many times the most strident voices usually have the least experience.

JP, your posts are jewels of skillfully crafted treats in the Mickey Dee array of super-sized, over-processed egos.

Thank you everyone for your replies. No wonder the title was confusing. I feel that I've just taken Intl. Ch. 101.
I had no idea what a Pandora's Box I was opening....No offence was intended.....Please don't take any.

FCI competitions are wonderful, but not entirely practical for the vast majority of fanciers in North America as the logistics of travel between countries for dog shows is not very convenient. In Europe, the distances and ease of travel between countries is very different.

I think that many Americans will reasonably use the term Int.Ch. to describe a dog who has earned the title of Champion in three countries whose stud book registry is recognized by the AKC.

(((JP)))

I can't believe this happened to you of all people. I'm so sorry.

For those of you that don't know JP she is one of the classiest, well know, wonderful breeders that happens to live in Switzerland. She is a long-time, well educated breeder that has been on this list for a long time also.

She doesn't speak unless she knows what she's talking about and is always helpful and kind to people on this list along with others. She doesn't speak often but when she does it's pearls of wisdom.

More than 1 apology is owed to her not that she probably cares. It's the right thing to do.

This is just why I never post with my name anymore, the same thing happened to me. I'm sorry this happened to you JP. It shows the changes in some of the posters here.

You people chose to pick on the wrong lady. She is a true lady in every sense of the word and incredibly knowledgable.

I DO understand that, I just was saying I compete in the IABCA Int. CH shows, because they are FUN....folks keep saying it's without merit, but I disagree. I also said my dogs compete sucessfully in Can. CH. and AKC CH., and specialty shows, so they are not poor quality dogs!

What is the problem with people wanting to exhibit their dogs in different venues??? Why do so many feel the need to critize??? For example, this title is not as good as that one and when you get this certain title you have to do this to get it so it is better. It is just not good enough if it is not AKC or FCI, all-breed shows are not good enough you must show in specialties for your dog to be worthly. HOGWASH!!!! What are you all 10 yrs old???

All of these venues where designed for people to enjoy exhibiting their dogs at different levels and for different expectations. Some people are newbies learning the ropes maybe the IABCA and UKC is the perfect place to get started for them. Some people want to get their young pups early ring experience and they like to show in the IABCA shows or they want to get the written opinions from the judges to make determinations on the quality of their puppy.

Other people would like to exhibit their dogs and NOT have to use a professional handler and have fun without feeling they are showing to a face judge.

Several want to breed a more moderate labrador that can show in conformation and do well in the all-breed shows in addition to being a working dog that is not so over-done it can only do well in a specialty show. Everyone has their place where they fit in and they do what works best for them. Does that make it wrong or not good enough??? Of course not!!!!!

Not everyone starts out on the top with that awesome foundation bitch and breeds her and gets 3 champions right off the bat. In fact, it is those that don't start out that way that are the ones who truely learn and become the top breeders. Because those that start out with that top dog right away never learn the trials and tribulations on the way up so when something goes wrong they cannot handle it and they fall apart.

With that, show away where-ever you like to show and have fun at it. I know I will be.

- Switzerland's Top Labrador 2001 & 2003, all systems
- RCS Top Dog Trophy 2000 - 2001 - 2002 - 2003 & 2006
- BOB RCS Club Specialty - Ing-Marie Hagelin & Carole Coode
- BISS Best In Show DRC Specialty Winenden - Shelagh Walton
- Best In Show RCS Journée Familiale 1999 & 2005
- Best Veteran in Show Lausanne International 2006
- BOB NL RCS Ch. Show 2007 - Caron Morton
- International FCI Gundog Group Winner - 2x Group 2

Sire of:
- Best Youngster & Best Swiss Bitch RCS Ch. Club Specialty "Truly" - Janet Cole
- Best Youngster of Breed NL Ch. Specialty "Heidi" - Joy Venturi-Rose
- CAC/BOB/Group 2 winner "Skye" (ex Cricklecreek Fingle's Cave)

Don't worry JP, most of us are well aware of who you are and your accomplishments.

Gregg - I didn't post those stats!! My only real accomplishment is having dogs that would turn triple backwards summersaults if they thought it would make me happy... but, then again, isn't that par for the course for Labs?

Thanks to those who came to the rescue. Just yesterday, when measuring me for a shirt, the shoplady said: "I never realised your shoulders were so large!"... maybe it's a sign!

Hey Spaniard tell me what makes you an expert???
Get real!

TOO MANY EXPERTS !!!!!!