Where can I find the best deal for DNA testing of a Dual-Sired litter?

TIA

Ingen

Ingen is having MAJOR issues right now. It is taking 2-3 weeks alone to have an email responded to! I am not sure I would recommend them at the moment due to the issues they are having. I am still waiting for EIC results from a sample received the beginning of August, and PRA results that were received the end of August.

I would look elsewhere for now

I have never dealt with doing a Multi Sired Litter, but I would read requirements on AKC's website. If there are puppies from both sires, I think AKC only will take DNA results from certain labs. There is an extra Fee involved with AKC and getting the pups reg'd. If you use a lab that AKC doesn't approve you may find yourself retesting all the puppies to get papers on them and the parents.

If you are planning to register puppies with the AKC, the only option is the AKC DNA profile.

http://www.akc.org/dna/multisire.cfm

The semen from the first sire was not that viable so I decide to use another sire for the second insemation. I realy think that the second sire is the one that sired and puppies and would like to avoid AKC DNA unless I must. And yes that means possible doing it twice.

Does anyone know of any other place besides Ingen?

http://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-parentage-test.html

I'm assuming this is an AKC litter? The AKC test (at $35 ea) seems to be cheaper than the alternatives. If all puppies prove to have one sire you only need to use the normal registration form/fee, so I'm confused as to why you'd want to avoid them?

AKC DNA has it's own problems. I DNA tested a puppy that wasn't registered yet and they just didn't seem to understand what I wanted. (How hard is it - here's a DNA sample, give me a profile?) Since the first semen was non-viable, perhaps you can just DNA test your keeper(s)? Then if that pup(s) proves to be from the other sire, you go through the regular AKC DNA process.

Remember also you need to use the same service to test the pup as was used in the sire, because they all report on different genes.

We had the same thing. Bad collection and used different boy.
Pups came out and I called and asked AKC about testing. Their time frame was 6-8 weeks?????? When I asked why because I knew what lab they used and it didn't take that long they stated that they get a discount so have to wait till they have enough samples to do all together for the discount.

There is NO way I could plan on placing puppies and not be able to tell the people who the father was. I've heard alot that most dual sired litters end up being one male. So we used the vetdna listed above. I kept pups away from mom for an hour and did dna and 10 days later got them back.
8 pups from one male, 1 from the other. We didn't register him and sold him at a huge discount. Wasn't worth having to RE Dna all 9 pups and sires/dam plus pay the $200 penalty.
But the best thing was having the results right away and being able to tell people who the parents were. We told the family that got the other pup why and explained and they were just greatful for a nice discount on a nice puppy.
Again just my experience.

I had the same issue and used DDC instead of AKC because of the time frame. The chances of a dual sired litter IMO are pretty slim.

I dont understand not registering the one puppy either........

anyone that does a dual sired litter even if they THINK the puppies are only by one boy, better do it.

My experience.........

purposely planned dual sired litter. Got the shipment of both boys. One of them was known to have some "issues" which is why I decided to make it dual sired. When I received the shipment, the boy with potential "issues" looked FABULOUS. The other who was suppoed to be really potent was fair if that. I tested all the puppies and they were by the dog that was "fair if that".

I had no problems with the AKC. I tested them at about 7 days old and received the results in 4-5 weeks. Was very easy.

We bred a yellow bitch to a dominant black male (which we really wanted a litter by) and because of his age we backed it up with a breeding to a nicely producing yellow boy. Question my ethics if you want, but if all the puppies had been either yellow or black I would have registered the litter as if there was only one sire. If you have a problem with that go back and study color genetics.

The bad news was.... we got nothing and we had to spay the bitch due to pyo at 4 weeks, the only time that ever has happened with us.

There is nothing unethical about not registering a puppy from a litter. If you register those you DNA test and know the sire for sure, what is the problem? AKC would like the registration fee, but that's a money issue, not an ethics issue.

I'm not sure you understood. We did DNA test all the pups and mom and dad at vetgen. Came back with 8 puppies being out of father a and 1 from father b. We weren't going to be keeping the 1 pup from father b. Had we planned to keep him we would have had to do the dna testing through AKC at $35 per puppy (when I already knew who they were out of from the other lab, because AKC won't accept dna results even if they are done at the EXACT same lab that they use) BECAUSE they want the MONEY!
Besides that we would have had to pay a $200 penalty for multi sired litter. Just to register that one puppy. That is $515 to register that one puppy. 70% of my puppy people don't care to register their pups with AKC anyways so we discounted him and explained to them and showed them the DNA from the vetgen lab.
Its not like I registered HIM (the 1 pup) from the other father and just didn't give papers, that would be ethically wrong. Before there was limited registration we used to not give out papers till they were spayed/neutered. No different in my mind. We registered a litter of 8 pups only and all of them went home with papers if wanted. Only 2 were registered with AKC (including the one we kept).

I don't know where you got that I just DNA tested the one puppy and registered the rest as out of that sire! That is not what I said or did!

I'm just curious if you don't mind me asking...

how is it that you saved over $500 on not registering the one pup?? a individual registration is how much? - and then $35 for the dna thru AKC, and then there was a $200 penalty. what else do you pay for to register a puppy individually with dna ??

also, if you don't mind me asking- how much did it end up costing you to dna the other pups ? was it that much less expensive that you reduced your price of the puppy with a huge discount? surely you didn't discount him the cost of DNA , the cost of penalty and the individual registration. If i were to sell my puppies for $950 for example....you saved by not registering , you say $500, so you reduced him that much to avoid that cost?? why not just register and charge full price??

in Canada, according to CKC and their bylaws, a purebred dog is only one that is registered. selling a unregistered dog is against the bylaws - and penalties are much higher than the savings. We'd get our priveledges revoked big time!

I'm not condemning or criticizing...i'm more than curious how the #'s add up to your savings..when you took a huge loss on the one you discounted.

I had an intersting conversation with an AKC rep once. They said a very high precentage of 'dual' sired litters turn out to be single sired. We were talking of the scientifics of it. I have had 3 experiences with dual sired litters. Two of them turned out to be single sired. One turned out to have one puppy sired by other stud dog. B/C of this we always use DDC lab in OH (and sometimes we run other tests at the same time like coat color, you get a break sometimes if you call them). We get results fast, it is not too expensive, they are super to deal with, I know the parentage to tell puppy owners early on, I register as a regular litter if it is found all puppies from one sire, if not, I then submit DNA to AKC to go that route of dual sired litter. Just our experience. BE VERY CAREFUL WITH AKC DNA. I had sold a puppy, got the standard "not enough cheek cells letter", had to drive 3 hours personally to swab that puppy so the litter could be registered. This is due to their horrid lag times. So no puppies go home unless I have results back.Just things to consider.

I paid to test the pups all 9 through vetdna. When we found out that the pups were from two different sires, the ONLY way to register both "litters" is to dna test EVERY puppy (a 2nd time through the lab that the AKC, as they don't accept from anywhere else), so that is 9 pups. So 9 X 35 is 315. Plus the 200 penalty is 515. There is no individual registration to consider, the application is given to the puppy buyer at time of pick up.
I didn't DNA test the other pups a 2nd time. Just the first time that I did all of them.
I talked with the family (as all the pups were spoken for and knew about the possiblity of two fathers) about it and if being able to register him was important. They said whether he was registered or not as a litter and got an application they would not ever individually register him. So why would I spend 515 to have an application here that would never get sent in?? I didn't discount him the full $500 but half and they said that was fine.
You ask why I didn't register him and charge full price, for what they didn't intend to register him, for me it didn't matter either way.
I understand that in Canada its different but here its not. ALOT of dogs don't get registered that have applications.

HOW IS THE STUD BOOK OR PEDIGREE WRONG?????

I can't tell you about 2 pups because it didn't happen. I explain more about the family that got the puppy and that they wouldn't have registered him anyways.

If he'd been my keeper, which being that he was a he, he wasn't staying NO MATTER how nice he was because I wasn't in a position at the time to keep a boy, I'd still have done it like I did. Because he wasn't staying.

So are you telling me that every puppy from every litter you've sold is AKC individually registered? If not than its no different. They said they wouldn't send it in so I never got it. If I had a litter of two pups and wasn't keeping them, and both people didn't care about the papers, would I register them, I don't know, for what reason. Do they love their dog less because they have an application, the pedigree on the dog, its parents, the clearances they have are all the same regardless of whether or not he has an application from AKC.
I don't live in Canada and if I did, I'd have done as was expected to do. I don't know what CKC's stand on dual sired litters is but I doubt its like AKC. What do you have to do if you have a dual sired litter?
I never said I was looking to save $500 but I'm definately not looking to blow $500 so you may think I'm ethical.
As for the stud dog owners, both of them knew we were doing this and why and both of them waived the stud fees. They are both respected breeders and friends and agreed that it would be a waste of money to register the pup.

Thanks for answering that...after re-reading my post this morning (different frame of mind - 2 coffees in me LOL) - i was worried it may have been harsh the way i asked it. It was more a curiosity thing.

So when you registered the litter, I'm trying to understand - did you omit him as part of the actual litter registration for the # of pups in the litter?
I guess my thoughts were, if you dna'd all thru AKC, and then paid out the penalty, - you'd be probably further ahead at selling puppy at regular price. rather than dna elsewhere, and then registering the litter with one sire (sans the other pup) - and then discounting the price of the pup who had the other sire. It just seemed like twice the amount of work. What would you have done if 1/2 the litter was one sire and the other 1/2 the other sire??
Again, it's just more curiosity...i'd take it private if you want (my email is included) - i don't want to appear confrontational on here with you.

Yes..in Canada completely different. we are responsible for the litter app and the individual registrations. we are not allowed to charge the buyer's for any of that at all. we are sure that each pup is reg'd as well.

I would have just used AKC if they would be able to get results back faster. I couldn't not tell people who the pups were from after they went home. That's not fair. Some people only wanted the one sire (who sired the 8). I called AKC to see if I used the same lab they did, but sent it in myself and got it back sooner. They said they don't accept from ANYWHERE.

Can you use multi sires in canada and if so how does that work?

In Canada :
http://www.ckc.ca/en/portals/0/pdf/ckc%20forms/registration/10-101-02-07.pdf

Looks to be pretty straight forward.

it looks like registration of a multiple sired litter is about $85 for members, and $170 for non-members.

http://www.ckc.ca/en/Portals/0/pdf/Other/Sept%2009%20Fee%20Schedule.pdf

Doesn't say anywhere in the CKC bylaws that they tell you who to send dna to- you just would send in a copy of the results report.

I've never done it , and don't have much intent to do it in the near future...but that's how it works here as per the CKC website. :-)

Thanks for explaining, i hope i wasn't too invasive with the questions.