Just bred my bitch for the 3rd time, fresh chilled semen, all prog. tests done, viable semen, healthy bitch, all was done right. No puppies. Again. Have talked to many other breeder friends having the same thing happen. Why so many misses? What are we doing wrong? The mutts nesxt door are having litter after litter. Maybe i'll go back to backyard breeding. Worked every time.

What brand extender? Antibiotics?

I'm hearing of a lot of infertility issues in dogs and bitches due to Lyme disease. Since it's rampant here and ticks are developing resistance to Frontline and other products, I've decided to run everyone through a course of doxycycline once a year after we get a hard freeze. Not even wasting time or $$ testing them.

I'm sorry for what you are going through. Have you consulted a certified repro to help get to the bottom of the issue?

I've had the same thing here. Progesterone tests, a repro vet, anitbiotics, different girls--3 and 4+ misses.
Can it be as simple at we are doing AI not natural? I think most BYB put them in the garage together.

Yep, same thing here. I did all the right stuff as well - progesterone testing, transcervical AIs by repro vet, followed-up by another AI or two by me . . . and no pups. this has happened more than once. My bitches are getting older with all these misses (which introduces reduced fertility now). Additionally, I have lost the option of using 2 stud dogs who are older and now longer viable. I'm scratching my head and trying to figure out what the heck is going on.

Are people when doing frozen or fresh chill still doing testing for Brucellosi for the male and female even though you are not doing a natural breeding
Here is a good article.

http://www.dogsincanada.com/brucellosis

since is it not a timing issue you need to look somewhere else.

what are you feeding? raw, kibble, mix?
although I love to feed raw I had to stop due to reproduction issues. the body requires the perfect balance of macro and micro minerals.

where are you located? are you in a selenium deficient area? If so even if you feed a good food you may need to supplement with selenium tablets, the body must have this to reproduce.

diseases or bacteria? have you ruled out brucellosis, chlamydia, etc. You many need to run your entire kennel on a 2 month run of antibiotics.

It is so depressing, I went 2 years with missed breeding and very small litters. The round of antibiotics and adding selenium, fish oil, vit E to my quality kibble seem to turn me around.

good luck!

It's very interesting and not just confined to USA. I think people are finding more problems having successful breedings everywhere and in most breeds.

I have not one scrap of scientific data to back up my thoughts on this matter, but I often wonder if we are creating the infertility problems with all the chemicals we are putting into and onto our dogs for flea prevention, disease prevention, heartworm, tapeworm,roundworm, whipworm etc.

I have no idea how we can do these things differently but when you think that the byb's seem to be able to impregnate their bitches just by walking the stud dog past the kennel (lol) it makes you wonder.

Just my rambling thoughts.

Olivia - you said a mouthful "not a scrap of scientific evidence". How do we know that the backyard breeders aren't having fertility problems? We don't. Are bitches having more misses and smaller litters? We don't know. No scientific evidence. Since this board doesn't allow litter announcements, we only hear about the misses, which may in fact be a really small part of the picture. I bred two bitches this year, both conceived, and both delivered larger than average litters.

I think as breeders we need to consider the traits we are selecting for. We could be, with out realizing it, ignoring that bitches that get pregnant easily, have large litters that are whelped freely and make lots of milk and have good mothering instinct tend to come from families that have the same traits. If we were breeding cows or pigs these are traits that would be considered highly when contemplating a mating. I'm certain nutrition, chemicals, timing and disease play a role in infertility as well but genetics could be a factor too.

Several breeder friends and co-owners of mine have missed one or more bitches this year. A couple of the bitches have had one litter and then only misses after that. We have one bitch who has missed twice and is now pregnant after taking her to a repro vet. Below are links to some very good articles by breeder vet Dr. Mary C. Wakeman of the Canine Fertility Center of Ashford, CT. There are also informative articles on fading puppies, fresh extended semen breeding, OFA and orthopedics.

PRE-BREEDING EXAM FOR THE BITCH
http://showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/vpbxm1.html

STRESS, INFERTILITY AND HERPES INFECTION
http://showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/vhr2.html

ROUTINE PREVENTIVE PROGRAM FOR THE INTACT BITCH
http://showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/vppib1.html


LYME DISEASE, PREGNANCY AND MONTHLY HEARTWORM
http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/herx.html

OUCH! Nancy, why attack me? At least 2 other posters mentioned byb's. Why are my thoughts any less valid than anyone elses?I prefaced what I said by stating that there was no science behind it, just my thoughts on a possible avenue of investigation.

Geez Olivia - chill out! I didn't read Nancy's post as attacking you, just questioning whether BYBs really are or are not having issues. I certainly didn't read it as an attack on your post at all!

While I too have no scientific proof, I had 3 girls miss in the last 2 years. All were shipped AI's and done at a repro specialists with a pre breeding exam, numerous progesterone tests and 2 AI's with semen looking good at the time of breeding.
The last of the 3 had good sized litters in the past (9, 11) and had been naturally bred both times to a field dog (she was a field bitch). This time we opted for a show dog with working titles. EVERYTHING that she was doing at home a week after she ovulated (on the progesterone test)said that she was ready now not then. She didn't have pups.
So after that I decided to try some tests myself. I draw blood so ran some premates and progesterone tests at the same time. They didn't always match up. After 2 bitches and neither telling me to breed at the same time as the premate, we went with the premate and got pups. That was 2 years ago and I haven't missed a girl since then. In fact I've had big litters of 12, 13 and 9 since then.
Not sure if this has anything to do with the post on progesterone testing but thought it was interesting.
I also use plain red topped tubes and when I ran my progesterone down to the vet in a red top tube, it came out about the same as the premate. Just food for thought

My girls were having problems conceiving or they were whelping small litters UNTIL I started doing my own AI's. My girls had 2 misses and 1 small litter when my repro vet was doing the AI's and the one implant. Since then we have gone on to have 3 successful litters, all normal size litters. some of these vets get it in their head that they need to warm the semen up first which you absolutely shouldn't do.

Also, if you live out in a region where farmers are spraying insecticide or what not and the wind blows all this toxic stuff onto your property, then this could cause infertility issues with your dogs.

I am conscious about not feeding females food with Flax, as it is a phytoestrogen. Pregnant human females are told not to supplement with it during pregnancy, why not animals? Finding a food without it is getting more difficult. Finding a flax-free food that has the correct calcium/phosphorous ratio for a pregnant female or puppies is also difficult. I try not to feed a food with flax even to puppy females.

Has anyone who is having problems had their water tested lately? It's the most important nutrient our dogs take in daily and often the most overlooked/forgotten potential problem.

Low/normal thyroid can also have an effect on reproduction.

Actually there is a lot to what Olivia is saying. Many vaccines have adjuvants that contain chemicals such as mercury (ie thimerosal) and it is well understood that mercury causes reproduction issues as well as neurological development issues.

Most studies on the safety of vaccines and drugs are of limited duration and do not accurately reflect the chronic diseases and issues they can cause. I for one agree that the vast amounts of chemicals and drugs our dogs are exposed to, not to mention diets that are not really species appropriate are a big reason for many of the issues we are seeing today, not just reproduction issues. Of course we are all free to raise our dogs the way we see fit, but I think that Olivia definitely has a point.

WOW--in 20+ years I have had ONE miss and that was a vaginal AI 15 years ago.

MWK

Yes, my soil was checked and it is high in nitrogen. I was having a problem with small litter size, misses, etc. Sometimes in dryer climates, the level is higher - I assume it is not leached out quickly because of the lack of water/rainfall. I read somewhere that livestock folks check for this frequently as it causes a problem with birth rate.

I have two breeder friends who live close by. So I am speaking for 3 kennels.
We see no rhyme or reason sometimes when we check for viable semen, do Premate, and check for infections, thyroid, etc.

I do agree...we don't select for "good mothers" we select, as show people, for "show potential". The BYB's do have issues, some don't. But they pick the BIGGEST bitch to breed. NOt the nicest in structure or movement. I remember waaaaaaaay back when I was a BYB...yep...I had no issues at first. Large litters, great moms, the "better" quality dogs I got (as far as showing in conformation, well known pedigrees) the more I had repro issues.
WE tried everything.
Finally we did preg. testing.
Then PRemate.
Even with premate we have missed. We found we sometimes breed too EARLY with premate. WE breed on "clear" day, two days later, done. In talking with some repro vets, they think that we should do that 3rd AI, always, after a "clear". gives more time for eggs to ripen.
Boy, there are so many issues. You all really gave a lot of helpful feedback, and gave us all a lot to think about...thank you.

One kennel close by, they have had 3 bitches lose entire litters this year. Makes me wonder about chemicals. I need to talk to them.

The other, she does all natural breedings, hardly EVER misses, does not check semen, does not do prog. testing. Man. drives me crazy.

As a newbie, (with just two litters under my belt) I can tell you a lot of breeders I looked to to purchase a puppy to start with 11 years ago thought I had two heads when I asked about their dog's reproductive pasts.

I got a wonderful girl from a young breeder, who provided me with a 3 generational assurance that their girls were free whelpers, easy to get pregnant (the girl I got was the product of one natural tie at 14 days) and conceived and carried large litters.

So far, my girl has had two litters. The first time the semen was iffy, and it came partially frozen in the minitube box, we squeezed out an insemination and my girl had 13 puppies, 9 girls and 4 boys.

The second litter, we did everything well, side by side AI, day 14 and day 16, no progesterone (we were at the Potomac) and voila, 13 puppies again.

Sometimes its just easy.

I have a friend who was having a hard time to conceive. This is a nice girl structurally, but very high strung with anxious tendencies, to me, she's wired wrong and I would never breed her. I don't know if its her temperament, but she couldn't conceive. 4 tries. The 4th time, she ended up having 3. She refused to feed them and killed one at 2 weeks.

I like to think nature has a way. And we simply don't listen often enough.

As did I, Nancy

Thanks for the reply Nancy. I can be pretty blunt myself (just in case nobody has noticed in the past LOL) Maybe I was just kinda tired & emotional. One of my neighbours of 30 odd years passed away & yesterday was her funeral. It was the first funeral for me since my nephew's suicide just over a year ago AND, I hadn't taken my medication (oops, forgot to renew my prescription).

I originally got to thinking about the chemical bombardment issue when I started hearing of more and more dogs getting cancer.

I try to avoid all but the bare minimum of the stuff around and If I must use stuff, I prefer to use a daily dosage regime rather than the all in one, u-beaut lets give them the whole year's protection meds in one hit.

I was at my vets and a Newfie breeder mentioned they were having issues and she thought it had something to do with breeding large doggie bitches.

I also remember someone saying that litter size was being affected by too much inbreeding.

Just to throw some other ideas into this mix.

To "Labs"-- How much selenium, fish oil and vitamin E did you add to your dogs' food daily? Thnx.

I have been very thankful, no misses in years. Give vacines, use Frontline, use heartworm monthy of course, have well water, if that matters, clean runs with clorox about every two or three days. Clean dogs. Don't stay in runs except over night. Do chill and AI's every time. Do not warm up or spin down semen. Vet never does AI's. Don't really give vitamins or anything until I know they are in whelp. Do ultra sounds or x-rays, never afraid of any of that talk either. Would be interesting to see if alot use the same dog food. Always do progestrone test, not the little kits. To much invested to not have a litter.

I have talked to lots of Ranchers and they say it is the food that we are feeding as it has changed dramatically over the years as well as what we are giving the livestock as well that goes into the dog food.

Is there a good quality dog food out there that does not contain Flax ?

How many breeders feed Costco Sig. Lamb and Ric and consistantly have nice size litters with few misses ?

I love what you said. you covered everything except what food you feed? I believe this to be as important, if not more so.

Costco Lamb and Rice contains flax. Several misses, resorptions, tiny litters here in bitches who were fed it.

There's a new food that Merrick is making called Whole Earth Farms. It has good ingredients, no flax, and is a decent price (online price is inflated by about $10/bag to cover the "free" shipping that they offer online.) I would only use it for adults, however. Both the puppy and adult formulas have calcium levels that are too high to use for puppies.

I feed Proplan chicken and rice, then the shredded and now the preformance. One girl has had 3 misses. The other girl is on Innova, also 3 misses. I'm at Bare Bones w/o my dog food bag--do these have flax? Guess I can go look on line.

For the one who said the only thing I did not answer was what food. I have fed Exceed for the last 5 years. Fed Diamond before that with no problems in litters. Just hate I was getting loose stools and so much water in the stool. Huge. So small with Exceed.
Important when you have several dogs.

ProPlan does not have flax.

<== obligatory emoticon

I'm sorry, I should have said additive. Such as other adjuvants and preservatives found in vaccines like aluminum and formalin, not to mention foreign animal tissue that is ground up with the vaccine and injected directly into the tissues. Hmm, I guess vaccines are harmless