Hello guys, would love some advice from some more experienced breeders/stud dog owners. Here is the situation: A coowned bitch, of advanced age and some missed breedings came to be bred to my dog. My stud contract is the following: $200 service fee, 3 pups is a litter and the remaining stud fee due when 3 or more pups are born. One coowner dropped the bitch off, signed the contract and paid the $200 service fee. Well, the puppies are now well over 2 months old and the remaining stud fee has not been paid, despite polite reminders that it is past due. Both owners have actually called in the last two weeks and said they would send a check....alas no check in the mail. One of the coowners actually called and asked why the AKC papers were not in order?....I explained that I would sign the papers once the stud fee was paid.....and was told by her she understood and would send a check.....Again no check in the mail. I sent another email today and one of the coowners sent me back pictures of the puppy they kept with no mention of the stud fee and the other coowner emailed back that she had not decided yet which puppy she would keep and she would send the stud fee once she made a decision and sold the other puppy. I am so frustrated with these people!!!!! I don't need the money but it would be nice to have....especially since my dog and I fulfilled our end of the deal. I have just recently had a dog that anyone is intrested in breeding too, so I am somewhat new to the stud dog thing and when I came up with my contract, I wanted to make it easy for people to use him....but after this I am rethinking my contract. Maybe these breeders will read this and decide they need to pay the stud fee they owe!!!???? Any suggestions on how to handle this situation???

PS: I would like to thank those breeders that regularly keep boys and make them available for the rest of us to use. People do not realize that a stud fee is not easy money....it is hard earned and well deserved. I also want to mention that the many other people I have dealt with in the last few months have been wonderful....I am hoping this is an unusual situation.

what about a Paypal account? Charge extra to cover the fees.

It seems to me that these folks are somehow unable to pay the cost and are embarrassed to tell you the truth. I suggest you ask them if they are in need of a payment arrangement. Can you accept payment in 3 or 4 installments? Would you be willing to take a puppy in lieu of payment? Is there any other kind of payment you would be willing to barter with them on? I know it's not your contract to make other arrangements, but I recommend trying the alternative route first before you get angry. As you mentioned, you have had good experience with your other stud clients. Hopefully it will work out.

Your response is just wrong. She shouldn't have to rearrange or change anything, or take payments. If they can't (or won't) pay the stud fee, they shouldn't have bred the girl.
You will find that 90% of bitch owners are good about paying but the ones that are bad are bad to all stud owners, not just you. Some people just can't stand to pay the fee. They are hesitant to pay for anything. You haven't signed off on the papers so good for you. Wait it out is about all you can do. Pestering them (which you should never have to do) is not working so just wait. If they want them registered they will pay eventually. One breeder friend I know got the balance of her stud fee when the pups were four months old. Unless they plan on falsifying papers you will get the balance. It's a shame this has to happen but please make these people known to other stud dog owners. We should all keep a file of the resistant or non-paying bitch owners and share that info with each other so the rest of us don't have this same problem with them. Their bad reputation should be known.

If anyone ever does that then all of us should know about it. I would post their information everywhere possible so we never deal with them in the future.

This is also another reason full stud fee payment up front is still insisted on by some. Some bad apples spoil it for everyone.

This is a common experience. Many stud dog owners have to wait until the pet puppies are sold before they see their money.

This is exactly why I will accept full stud fee at the time of service. I don't accept service fees. Collecting monies after the service is a nightmare. If you can't pay stud fee or service fee (and it's further obligation) then you have no business breeding. Money is tight for everyone including stud dog owners!!!

Sad that co owners would do this to you. I would call AKC and get ahead of them trying to register without paying. That is awful. But number one if they did not have the money up front they should not have bred the litter. It is not up to the stud owner to help with expenses on your litter. After the pups are on the ground and a few days old pay up. They have done their part. Think that comes first and you can register the pups later. Some make it hard on the rest of us. I have a stud dog, so on both sides of this agreement.

I do the same. Show me the money , then I will show you the semen. Too many villiage idiots , making arrangements to breed to our prized stud dogs, and not have the stud fee. Outrageous ! I think there should be a website , where all stud owners can post names of these so-called breeders without integrity ! It's a small Labrador world and if any of these bitch owners think we don't talk to each other , they need to think again !

When I read these sort of posts I can hardly believe it. As a bitch owner and just starting out I feel it is a great honor to be able to use some outstanding studs. It is a shame that some folks do not value that honor. I could never imagine not paying for services rendered. I would bet those folks' puppy buyers don't get puppies until they are paid in full.

Sorry you are wrong. AKC will not get involved in private contract disputes. Their standpint is that it is your own risk to give services before payment. Private contracts, however worded, do not mean a thing to AKC. They will not and should not get involved. Think how many idiotic disputes they would have to determine if valid or not if they did.
They are smart, they know dog people are vendictive and nasty. They DO NOT get involved.
They are a registry and registering a dog has no bearing on whether a private agreement for payment was honored or not.

I pay my stud fees, so this is not a defensive note. Just the facts.

PS - For anyone suggesting making a website and naming names, better be prepared for a libel suit because it's against the law!!

My suggestion is check out who you sell semen to. And better yet, burn me once you won't get the chance to burn me again!

No, AKC does not. Plus the person who does not pay their stud fees can also just claim the litter was sired by one of their dogs. As long as the litter is not DNA tested, the chances of getting by with it is a very high percentage.
That being said, I'm going to say 99% of the folks are honest and what they say is what they do. We are not going to change what we do or shape any policy over that 1%. We take personal checks for our puppies and use the service fee method on stud fees. While we have been burned one time on a stud fee, we never have had any other kind of a problem. I want to treat folks like I want to be treated myself. If you shape your policies assuming people are dishonest and show a lack of trust, why should others not treat you with the same skepticism?

I am one for full payment or no semen. Yes, it's hard to pay the $800+ but if I can't afford that, I shouldn't be doing the litter.

Maybe it should be paid in full up front and then all but the $200.00 "service fee" refunded if "X" amount of puppies is not produced. No rebreeding.

I for one appreciate those breeders that give a break up of the stud fee.
I also have no problems offering references of other breeders I have dealt with for verification of my honesty.

I also am happy to work with my families on paying for pups, I require a $200 deposit and if they want to pay the remaining balance in payments before they pick up the pup the I do accept checks. Otherwise payment due at pick up cash only. Not one family has ever griped about the available options.

I have been stiffed twice in stud fee, only because I was nice and signed my "dear friend's application" early.....that wont happen again, and I do see them at the show, they never seem to be bothered by the fact that they owe me money

I agree with Gregg, there has to be a happy medium of trust in every transaction. Its a live and learn issue.

Just a question, if you pay the full fee upfront prior to shipping, what happens if the semen arrives in a poor condition or Fed-Ex loses the shipment, you then are up a creek. You basically paying for something you did not get.

If semen is in poor condition, then the stud owner should send another shipment. If Fed-Ex loses the shipment, stud owner needs to address that w/ Fed-Ex (hopefully shipment was insured) and should still send a second shipment if time permits. If these can't be resolved to make the breeding happen, then a refund of stud fee minus a breeder service fee, kits, shipping is fair in my eyes. This really is a topic on stud fees and people paying them.

Something written is libel, if it is untrue. If the facts are accurate, and only the facts are given, then it is not libel, and a suit against the writer/reporter will not succeed.

Something that is written is still only the opinion of the author, until proven in a court of law.
Just because YOU say something is true, does not make it so and does not make it the WHOLE story.
There is also something called slander and that is prosecutable by law.
One cannot just print damaging facts about another person at will. It is illegal and it is punishable.
So if you think you can publish "your facts" about another person in a public domain, you are wrong. Just try it. See what it gets you if that person decides to bring you up on charges.

Nothing would need to be published. We can spread this information like wildfire if we choose. Word of mouth does wonders. We can sue too for non-payment of funds owed.

I'm one of those bitch owners who rely on outside stud dogs all the years I have been in this hobby. I am finding more and more top notch stud dogs whose owners are willing to offer the $200 Service Fee which suits us alot better. Any more days, trying to put together a nice breeding, paying for all the associated costs before the semen is even shipped is expensive enough without having to come up with a $800 to $1000 stud fee. It's going to come to the point where there will be enough stud dog kennels offering the $200 up front as well as reguarly doing EIC testing on their boys that using the stud dogs whose owner is less flexible is not as appealing.
Telling breeders that they shouldn't breed if they don't have the stud fee is a rather silly thing to tell bitch owners. If the truth be known, 3/4 of us shouldn't be allowed to be in this dog hobby if the critera was our income

Thank you Perry! The whole defense against either libel or slander is that the facts given are accurate, and only the facts are given. That is what would separate this from "gossip", where what is stated or written is not factual, but rather made up.

I couldn't agree MORE!!!!

If I want to use the stud dog badly enough, I have no issue with the stud dog owners policy, whether it is pay in full, or a partial payment, the rest due after the puppies are whelped. I accept it as part of the process, and of wanting to use that particular dog. Being new, I also provided a reference to the stud dog owner, from my mentor, who happened to know the stud dog owner. The semen was shipped, and my payment was shipped back with the box.

I could not imagine not paying for the service, the Lab world is smaller than you think! I also wish more stud dog owners would carefully screen the bitch owners, and the bitches they allow their dog to be bred to. I have seen some awful matches/pedigrees that double on poor health histories, and obvious pet quality bitches being bred.

I would be happy to pay the full fee at breeding time, with all but $200 refunded if the breeding does not take or I don't get the minimum number of live puppies. That would guarantee the stud dog owner is paid and still allow me to find a different stud next time around.

This is Alayne and unless there are two breeders having the same issue I am the one that now owes you the stud fee. Several people have already contacted me about this issue and I can't tell you how much I appreciate you telling everyone our personal business. Since you have gone this far...here is the full story.

The primary breeder of this bitch was responsible for paying the service fee to you and she didn't do that. She was to have that paid and the litter registered way before I came to choose my puppy but she did not.

We were to split the puppies and there were 3 in the litter. She was taking pick (she kept the dog), I was taking 2nd (a bitch) and the last was going to be sold and we were going to split the fee (another bitch).

I had the 3rd puppy sold to an owner coming to get the puppy on November 5th (which gave me plenty of time to decide between the girls when they were on vacation) and retained a deposit on her, but a few days before I went to pick out my puppy she told me they had decided to keep their male AND the other female I did't take that was already sold.

That was fine I told her as long as I have my half of the money on the extra puppy when I come as I am going to send the deposit back and inform the buyer she was no longer available, which is what I did. The entire time I am asking her "are the papers in order?...are the papers in order?"

Two days before I went to get my puppy she then informs me that she has changed her mind and that I can take both girls as she has decided not to keep the other one due to lack of money. OK...I will take the other girl, I called the family back that paid the deposit fee and see if they still wanted her. I told her I would send her the half ($600) after I sold her and she agreed.

So I show up to get the pups, of course the papers aren't in order and she tells me that she was going to do the registraiton on the litter in the next couple of days. I gather the pups up and take off.

On the way home I get in touch with the family that placed the deposit to ask if they were still intersted. Their son answered and told me that he had received the deposit back but his parents had left on vacation three days earlier and that they were very sad that they could not get a puppy from us and had started contacting other breeers. He said the next time he spoke to them he would check to see if they were still interested.

Shortly after replying to your email message asking me AGAIN where your $600 stud fee was their son called me again to ask if their family could still purchase the puppy. I agreed. He contacted the family and informed me today that they do want her and asked if I would hold her for them. I of course agreed because she was on hold to them previously and so we set the time to come and get her again at November 5th.

So...for the last time -

I will pay you as soon as this bitch puppy is sold as we agreed during our phone conversation.

I do want to point out that even if I only had a couple of days to evaluate the pups, picked one, sold the other and obtained and mailed a money order...I doubt that you would have received the money in the now 9 business days that have passed since I picked up the puppy.

Now if for some reason this is another peson...Please be very patient with the person that owes you the stud fee. There is NO chance that they are NOT going to pay you for a very very valuable AKC litter. Your lack of patience concerning an issue that has a 100% probability of correcting itself is just plain selfish, pushy and unprofessional.

Alayne

Hi Gregg,

I am the person that owes her. I would never register the litter without paying the stud fee or lie on any AKC paperwork.

I have written a complete explination of what happened below.

Alayne

I would never do that. I owe her and have written a complete explination of what happend below.

Alayne

although some of us knew it was you, most would have no idea....until you posted.
it was a debate topic that actually went away from the original post to "what would you do"

Unless this agreement was made before the breeding, then you are in the wrong by making the stud owner wait 9+ weeks after the litter was born. In my opinion it is rude and very unprofessional on your part. Between you and the co owner you should have come up with the stud fee long ago.

Again, I am not the primary owner of the dam. It was not my responsibility to contact the stud owner, delivery the bitch, pay the fee or anything.

I was stuck with this responsibility of paying the service fee once the extra puppy was sold because the primary owner could not do so.

Why would you assume that I knew anything about their agreement up until recently. Not my responsibility, but I am and will make this right.

Alayne

This whole thing makes me crazy. I don't own a stud dog, but I do sell puppies from time to time. Every once in a while a puppy buyer will ask me to "wait until payday". Come on! I am not a bank. I do not make loans. Why on earth do puppy buyers think they don't need to pay until it is convenient for them? And breeders should know that stud fees should be paid promptly, not when puppies bring in some cash. Stud dog owners are not the bank either. Grow up!

Wow Alayne, you really need a mentor. Or eyeglasses.
Do yourself a favor and get one or the other.
I'm sorry, I'm not usually mean but I couldn't help it this time.

This is another example of why co-ownerships don't work. If your name is on the dog then it is your responsibility. Most people prepare for a litter and that includes having the funds required in advance. This is exactly why we demand full payment before shipping semen. I bet you don't wait for your puppy money that long. There are getting to be too many people shirking off paying stud fees when the stud owner bends over backward to send you good semen when you need it.

Again, I was not the one who contacted her, signed the contract or delivered the bitch for breeding to her stud. I am selling this puppy and paying her the service fee because the party that was responsible did not do it. As soon as I sell the puppy that is available she will get paid for her service promptly.

Instead of "Where is my money THEY are responsible" I should have heard. "Thank you so much Alayne. I understand this isn't your responsibility but I appreciate you stepping up and taking care of the stud service for us when the bitch owner didn't".

I'm sorry? I need a mentor? How could you possibly deduce that I need a mentor becuase I am for paying a stud service that someone else was reposnsible for?

Had nothing to do with the stud service.

I guess many of us are having a hard time figuring out why you came on here so defensive if you are not the responsible party for this breeding.
If fact I am not sure why you posted saying it was you that the OP was talking about if in fact it was not????

I would be furious with your co owner for putting you into this position, not with the OP. She posted generic enough not to point fingers, just looking for advise.

but since you are the co owner and the other half did not meet her end of the deal then I would say it is your responsibility to pay now, take it out of your savings and you can put it back once the pup is sold. If you dont have a savings, maybe the OP takes paypal...

Alayne, crawl back into the hole you came out of. You have proven once again that you or anyone you have dealings with can not be trusted.
Stud dog owners beware of who you are dealing with. Sometimes it is not worth the money or your reputation!

Also try using spell check.......

It seems to me like the "word" spread like wildfire here afterall.

Wow!

Well I am not saying I am not responsible. I am the co-owner and so taking care of that responsibility. What I am saying was that it was not originally my responsibility and I have come upon it suddenly. It has been a week and a half for goodness sake since I found out and picked up the puppies.

As a matter of fact I give a full year, interest free, to pay for any of my puppies. I also give six months to pay for a service fee. I am not in this for the money. I am in this because I love the breed and the dogs, to meet wonderful people and help each other out.

Well I am sorry that you would draw such a conslusion about me without knowing me. Listening to rumors can make people petty and untrusting. That is just how it is being a breeder. You can't make everyone happy all of the time.

I am sure there are lots of rumors floating around about me due to the several times I have taken people to court to take back my dogs. Have I been late on a few payments? Well sure, anyone that hasn't is in a very lucky situation and must have tons of money. It isn't easy paying several thousands of dollars each month on trainers, vet bills and care. For the number of dogs I have my bills are huge. You get behind once in a while. What can you do? Anyone that doesn't feel the pinch in life once in a while must make enough from their breeding program to support their dogs fully and in my opinion that shouldn't happen.

I'm not too worried about what you think of me. I know better than that and the people that are close to me do as well. Sorry you have come to such a conslusion about a person you don't know anything about though. Unless you are one of those people I have taken to court, which may very well be the case! Hahahahaha!

Alayne

There is a spell check on here??? Where? Sorry about that. I am typing fast between puppy feedings and dog time and fly through it most of the time and didn't realize there was a spell check here. Sorry.

Well.... if you're late on your bills because of the number of dogs that you have, maybe that should be your clue to NOT keep that many dogs. Since when is it ok to be late and not pay people? For heaven's sake be late on your credit card bills, not on your payments to people you have a common interest with (labradors). If you take so many people to court, there's another tip-off that you enter into shakey arrangements or don't use the best judgement when placing dogs. Shit happens once in a while, but the fact that you "own up" to many instances of this . . . is absolutely ridiculous to me.

I agree, but when I am bombarded with emails and phone calls asking what is going on and why this person is saying these things and then I find a post here....quite a few people knew it was me. It wasn't like she was still posting annon you know. I had to say something.

First off I do do not have credit cards or credit card bills.

So you are saying that I should not be honest with people about why I take people to court? Just hide it, right?

Sorry...that isn't me. I want people to know that if you mistreat my dog, sell him when you shouldn't, sign my name on AKC papers when you should not or do things against our contract that there will be court action. Why would I want to hide that or anything? Only a dishonest person does that. A contract is only as good as the person signing it and unfortunatly every person but one that I have had to take to court has been a show dog breeder. Kind of says it all doesn't it.

So according to you the big kennels should not have more than 12 dogs either. Or..The more money you make the more dogs you can have?

I never said it was OK to not pay people. YOu just said that. I said that some times when you have some bills that are larger than expected (vet bills and so on) it cuts into things and you are late.

Alayne

Let me suggest . . . A SAVINGS ACCOUNT!!!! Then you wouldn't worry about being late. You can anticipate your dog bills. Cut your numbers back and maybe you can afford the bills and not be late. You miss the entire point.... as usual.

I missed the point? You never said that. Say what you mean instead of beating around the bush. Don't make people guess at what you meant to say. AS YOU POST ANNON AS USUAL!

My savings account has nothing to do with how many dogs I have. You are just being difficult to have something to do.

I don't have time to sit here debating why you think I should have less dogs. Pick it up with a person that really needs to reduce their numbers.

I need to go do some training. Have a great day.

Alayne

The point is . . . if you can't pay your bill to other breeders then don't create the bills. Don't keep so many dogs so that you can anticipate their needs and pay for their vet/training/etc on time without being delinquent. If you have a savings account then you should have to be delinquent on your dog bills.

Keep digging Alayne.
If you have to take that many people to court, you must have a problem no one else has.
It's called shady business practices.
Also, if you THINK for one second that you are a "big kennel" as in popular, big name, etc., think again.
You are nothing more than a breeder who has too many dogs of poor quality who breeds way too many puppies and claims them to be show quality (I guess that's all relative to where you plan to show them, like ALASKA maybe!) and obviously also doesn't pay your bills to your fellow breeders.
The other poster is correct. Please go crawl back under your rock.

I "winn not" post my nime as way to many nasty ppl will make somethin out of my opinion that jist ain't there

FACT.............I've "known" Alayne for nearly 15 yrs., and when she says "a" FEE WILL BE PAID.... you can cuont on ....it will be paid...........so let's chill out folks? have a great dey

FWIW I'd rather spend time "OUT" of the RAIN under a rock than to have some of u nasties RAIN on my pirade

I think it should be a prerequisite to have at LEAST a high school diploma to be allowed to breed dogs.....

Chill out ?

I "winn not" post my nime as way to many nasty ppl will make somethin out of my opinion that jist ain't there

FACT.............I've "known" Alayne for nearly 15 yrs., and when she says "a" FEE WILL BE PAID.... you can cuont on ....it will be paid...........so let's chill out folks? have a great dey

FWIW I'd rather spend time "OUT" of the RAIN under a rock than to have some of u nasties RAIN on my pirade

so, that is your assessment of Alayne. Other folks have their assessment and actual experiences. Who's right depends on the situation at that time.

This is just like watching a train wreck...

You can't help but watch the blood and gore, even though you'd like to turn away.

Here is my take on this problem. I dont know any of you so Im giving everyone a clean slate. I am anon on this post as this is an anonymous forum so dont bring up why I dont use my name.

I think if you want to give credit to your puppy buyers then great. I wouldnt do it but each person has their own way of doing business. The stud owner does not have those terms. Being your co-owner doesnt want to live up to her obligation of paying for a stud service, you should either pay it immediately or dont. If I was the stud owner, I would be taking both of you co-owners to court and let the judge figure out who should pay.

As far as you not having the money or your co-owner, its not the problem of the stud owner. If you guys cant afford this hobby, DONT BREED! or go sell some of your dogs so you can have time to get a JOB so you can afford basic things. What would happen if you needed an emergency C section? Where would the money come from? or would you watch your bitch die? Go pay your internet bill late, pay your electric bill or your insurance bill late. Dont pay the stud fee late. Go tell your electric company that you give a years credit to puppy buyers to pay you. Tell us what they say.

All I see here is someone that didnt live up to their agreement and making excuse after excuse why they bought something and now cant afford it. I sure hope stud owners only deal with you on a cash first basis in the future as you certainly dont live up to your word.

Again, I dont know you and I gave you a completely clean slate. Your not someone I would call honest!

I not only have a diploma, but am a graduated professional groomer, have s certification in small animal nutrition, certification in canine massage therapy specializing in sports medicine and a certification on canine behavioral management. These are from actual universities that offered these courses. Just FYI.

You obviously don't know me. I posted that only to let others know that I am an educated person. I have spent my life dedicated to Labradors and dogs. I may not be a big breeder, but that was never my intent or goal.

I feel very sorry for you that you have to belittle others to make yourself feel better. I have better things to do (such as play with my pups and train my dogs) than to continue with this.

Have a great day.
Alayne

Dear know it all,

I am sorry but you obviously do not know anything about Alayne if you feel that way. What a pitiful mess you are!

She has a wonderful therapy dog program, has some dogs running Master right now and two that are getting into coat to be shown. She is also very involved locally with rescue and volunteer work. She loves all of her dogs, gives them tons of attention and they get super care and lots of love IN HER HOME!

Sit on your high horse and keep saying things that are untrue and make no sense. I wish the majority of the breeders were as honest and love their dogs as much as Alayne. If she has taken people to court it is because they have taken advantage of her!

Kelly

In 25+ years of showing and breeding dogs, I have never once had to sue someone. I ALWAYS pay my fees up front and make sure the stud dog owner is happy. I am honest and don't have a ton of dogs nor a ton of litters. My stud fees and puppy money don't pay the bills, I have a job. I don't make my dogs uterus's work for their food.
I make sure I have the monies to send out a dog with a handler, even keeping a credit with them.
I know good people who have had dealings with you and they were sorry the day they even spoke to you. You claim things that are impossible...
Guaranteeing a dog to finish it's Championship???
Who the h@!! can do that!

As one person already said...
"You are nothing more than a breeder who has too many dogs of poor quality who breeds way too many puppies and claims them to be show quality."

Go away and stop extorting money from people.
Stud dog owners beware!

-

So you are saying you have a full time job and no one is home all day to care for the puppies? You just leave them at home alone? That isn't safe and so you probably should not have any litters if you can not afford to stay home to care for them properly and watch them every minute.

Who said anything about dog money paying the bills here?? You really DON'T know Alayne and her husband do you! ROTFLMAO!! This is so fun!!! What an idiot!

Alayne does guarantee them to finish a Championship. As a matter of fact, go take a peek at her guarantee. If you are not satisfied for ANY reason up to five years you can return the dog for a refund or replacement! No other breeder will touch that guarantee!!

Too many dogs of poor quality? Really? I guess you haven't been out to her place either have you? NOPE. Plus conformation is only one portion of the Labrador package. Possibly you have forgotten that?

Alayne if you are still reading this I am with you girl! I will call you later.

Char

Oh I know!.....

This person that is flaming is a riot! Now I know what unstable people do on their spare time...

Attack others! What fun!!!

Dig a little deeper into the past and you will find out more.

You obviously misread what I wrote so let me 'splain it to you.
You are quite defensive, must be from AK! LOL!!!
In Alaska, you only need 8 males or 13 females to make a 3 point MAJOR!
So the joke was, her dogs MIGHT be able to win a point or 2 if they were shown there!!!! But nowhere else!!!
Get it? It's EASY!!!!

To the person who said conformation is only part of the package. Yes, the most important part if you expect to have a properly functioning dog in all other aspects!!!!!


I think it should be a prerequisite to have at LEAST a high school diploma to be allowed to breed dogs.....

"This is a public Forum, and as such no disparaging remarks about other breeders and/or dogs will be tolerated. Any such inappropriate posts will be promptly removed and the offending poster will be banned from any further postings. There will be no other warnings regarding this rule, so use some common sense in your posts. This Forum is offered as a free service to it's users, and neither Wiscoy, or Bravenet assume resposibility for any of it's content."

I'm sure Jill would be proud...

Funny thing is - the whole thread was pretty tame and got onto a different topic when the co-breeder came on, then all he** broke loose. Guess she probably should have kept her identity, and thus everyone else's identities quiet!

All right, Kelly and Dana, two more for Alaska, nw you can make a Club and a specialty there.

This thread is revolting and is getting out of hand a lot responses are totally off topic and are not at all helpful to the OP.

Perhaps there is someone on this forum who is a lawyer and may be able to draft a letter of demand to end this matter.

A lawyer . . draft a letter of demand.... who are you kidding. No lawyer is free and what a ridiculous thing to suggest of a member on the forum.

One thing is sure, I will not deal with this person or her friends in my life, she doesn't pay and she gets you to court for nothing.

Out of here!!!