I was at a show this past weekend and the breeder handler dumped his open yellow to take his bred by back into winners. He has convinced his clients that the rule is you must stay on the bred-by for winners.

Isn't the AKC rule that anyone can take the bred-by into winners as long as the breeder/owner handles them in the bred-by class? Thoughts?

It is my understanding that it is not an AKC rule yet (I spoke with our rep in September), but they have been discussing it.

Johanne

If this is the person (breeder/handler) that I think you are referring to, maybe his clients should read his website better. He clearly explains that he will remain on Bred-by which in all honesty is not uncommon. All of these clients and owners of his dogs soon learn that is his way. I am not a "fan" at all and would not go near that side for anything, but I can't stand when people complain and it is their stupidity (not asking, reading, etc.).

I don't think the issue is the need to explain how this person does things, I think it is that this person tells his clients who rely on his guideance that those are the AKC rules. When in fact that is not the rule.

Well then educate them or show them where to find the rule. I don't understand how these clients that probably found the breeder through the web and "bought into" the whole program cannot do some work when they have questions. They have nothing to lose by asking and reading unless they truly don't want to learn and believe the breeders word is above everyones.
Believe me when I say I am not the breeder or one of the group. I feel exactly the same way when people complain about handlers not going back in on their dog for winners. Don't they ask questions before they buy a service?!

you can no longer use a handler for the winners class, so if you win bred by, you must be prepared to show in winners. you can't pass the dog off toanother handler. I think it went into effect Sept 1st

This is what is in the rule book for AKC

Amended to July 2009
Published by The American Kennel Club

• Not Champions of record on the date of closing of
entries for the show;
• Individually registered with The American Kennel
Club as of the date of closing of entries for the
show;
• Owned or co-owned by any of the breeders of
record as the date of the closing of entries for the
show.
The person handling the dog in this class must be a
breeder of record and an owner of record of this dog.
In any subsequent classes for which a dog from the
Bred-by-Exhibitor class becomes eligible, there are no
restrictions as to who may handle.

http://www.akc.org/pdfs/rulebooks/RREGS3.pdf

Maybe people should be getting a copy of the rule book and read, so you would know what they are.

I do agree these people should read the AKC website and learn on their own what the rules are instead of being strung along or reading non factual information on some breeders website. Go to the AKC website and get the "true" answers and then make your own decisions.

So, I have a question here. Rather than discuss the yeas and nays of the AKC rules on handling for BBE class, why don't we discuss what business is it of yours to get in the middle of a relationship between a handler and their client? Unless you are closer to the client than you are to your spouse you probably don't have a whisper of a clue as to what communications have taken place within that relationship. Oh - I just figured this out. Let me guess - the handler stayed on the bred-by and beat your dog or that of a friend of yours in winners and this is just another example of handler bashing and sour grapes.

Just want to be clear about the rules for all to read and learn. Most should already know that it is not proper practice for a handler to go off of the open yellow class winner right before winners and go back in on another dog because then they are saying to the judge that they don't want that open yellow dog to win and they are dumping the dog simple as that.

Find it hard to believe that any client would be paying a handler under that kind of agreement knowing fully that their dog will be getting dumped and they will miss out on winning the points?

That was exactly my point. If I am guessing correctly who this is in reference to - the handler/breeder has this all spelled out of who goes back in with who and how they handle these situations. It is very clear to anyone using him that bred by is priority which the handler/breeder has every right to do it this way if he wants. The client does not have to "buy into" anything - it is their choice.

The Pied Piper and his Mice

Any time you enter enter a business relationship, whether it's a contactor at your house or a handler for your dogs, it's your responsibility to recognize that you are entering into a professional relationship for services provided. Why is it that you idiots will enter into such a relationship with a handler and then claim all kinds of one-sidedness and lack of knowledge when you would never, ever, do the same thing with a contractor who is putting a roof on your house? What are you -- fools???? Get over it - don't blame the handler. For them, it's business. I don't have a clue what it is for you -- Disneyland?

I looked a little further and see that most of those complaining here got their dogs beat, check out the results at infodog and see whose dogs were in Bred By, Am Bred and Open Yellow and that will show who some of the posters here are.

And the only poster here defending this, is the breeder/handler himself.

Always those who want to just say people are bringing things up because they did not win at a show when it is truly not the case. It is about being upright and playing the game fair for all involved. These are not even my dogs, I am just calling a bad play as I saw it happen.

Right, many breeders do go back in on their bred-by and it is usually a breeder who brings only their own bred-by dog to the show that they house as well and then they bring it back into winners. Or it is that the breeder has 2 littermates and the bred-by class is a good way to space out their dogs in the classes. This is not the case with this breeder. This breeder brings 18 dogs to the shows that are housed and owned by others and then decides on that day who he wants to try to get the gravy for. Does not sound like a fair deal that I would spend my money on.

To Heres the Deal, how do you know whether or not people complain about a contractor that does roof work on their house or not? That is a stupid statement.

After a few years of getting the shaft, the brighter mice soon sever all ties to this breeder. You do not see them at the shows but are codlocked into producing puppies for this breeder. And the circle keeps going round and round.

This reply is for those calling good people mice. Maybe you should go out and buy more dogs with all of the hard earned money that you didn't or don't work for. The people that don't use their names that have posted some of these remarks are many of the people that stumble around the rings week after week and go home as loser's,not by the amount of ribbons that they have won but by the way they look at life and their fellow man. Is this forum not for helping others to learn more about the wonderful breed that we all love, not? So the only thing I can say is go find something else to do other then try to beat up on your fellow breeder/handlers because that is not something I want to learn from you.

Bob- did your leader tell you to write that or did you make a move without asking permission? Funny how you can post such a thing about people stumbling around in the show ring when you have never even stepped foot into the ring to handle a dog. You claim to be such the moral one although you are so green with envy that you blend in with the rain forest on a spring day.

Grow up Ronald McDonald! Maybe you can come over to me at the next show and we can continue this conversation.
You seem to think you know me but you are very much mistaken and that is a fact. No directions are needed from you or anyone else.