I have a girl that is due the day before Thanksgiving. Her previous litter, she whelped 8 puppies before she had problems and just couldn't whelp the last ones. Oxytocin was administered at the vets, but she just couldn't get the other pups out. Did a c-section and had two dead puppies. Vet said the uterus looked good.

So my question, should I go in for a planned section or try to let her whelp naturally? I worry that if she does try to whelp and something goes wrong, with a holiday....

if it were me I would see if she goes naturally before the holiday, if not and your vet will not be available then I would section just to be safe.

fingers crossing she goes on her own before the holidays.

Think it depends on how many puppies she is carrying. If she has that many again, I expect she would end up in the same predicament. If it is a smaller litter, it is possible she could do OK.

How long did you wait before you ended up sectioning her last time? To me a lot of these vets will section the dog even if it's not needed, they don't want to wait and see. Let her have them naturally, there is always an emergency vet ready to take care of the dog if needed. JMHO

Reading these posts I just have to say how lucky I am .. my repro vet lives about an hour away from me, but is very much the 'old fashioned country large animal minded' vet meaning that when it's time to breed, she'll do it even if it is at 8pm Mother's Day Sunday. When my girls are ready to whelp, I have her home phone number and am to call any time of day or night if there are problems/concerns/questions. She will do a section without hesitation if there is any question of not 'everyone getting out alive'. We have a wonderful working relationship and I consider her a good friend on top of that .. there are vets closer to me, but if it's an 'after hours' issue, you have to head to the emerg clinic and take whoever is on call that evening (rotates between vets in our area).. For me, well worth the drive up the highway.

Let her go naturally. Relax, she will be a-ok. Instead of using Oxy, try calcium. Ask your vet for Ringers Lactate and a syringe. Use it in case you need to get her to contract.

Use the puppies nursing to help her contract.

Too much oxy - dead puppies - the uterus literally vacuum seals the pups and they cannot whelp.

Try Ca.

Caution - never use Oxy on a bitch that has had a section...

If she were mine I would see no reason not to let her go naturally and see what happens. Be sure you have your emergency plans set up for the holidays. My vet gave me his cell, home, and other phone numbers so he could do an emergency section if needed. Remember the vet also has to line up a tech that's willing to come in and assist, so be sure it's all straight ahead of time.

Calcium after every puppy is delivered is helpful - I use a few Tums.

Good luck!

If she has not had her litter before quitting time on Wednesday, I personally would take her to the repro vet- hopefully you have one- and get a progesterone taken. If she is below 2.0, I would have the C-section then, rather than take a chance she will deliver fine on Thanksgiving. I had a girl deliver on Christmas once- didn't call the vet out. Lost a litter sired by Drifter out of a Ch CD JH. I had to take her in the next day (vet said it would be OK to wait 24 hours as the puppy was dead) to remove the last one by C-section, and she didn't conceive again after that. I also have had an emergency C-section at midnight, just me and the vet. We lost the litter that time, too. All of this was before I realized that planned C-sections were possbile.

I have never lost a puppy during a scheduled C-section. A girl that had had two litters of 11 puppies naturally had 12 in her third litter- I always X-ray, so I knew how many she had. She did not come into hard labor and needed a C-section the third time. We saved all twelve puppies, including two SH WCXs running in MH (one with AKC points) another AKC pointed WC, another with a JH, a WC, a UKC pointed CD RE TD with non-AKC agility title, two service dogs, and four great pets, one of whom lives with my niece and her family. Am I glad I saved all of them- you bet! My last C-section story is that of a girl whose temperature dropped on Friday afternoon, no action by 11 am on Saturday. Facing a 40 hour stretch with no vet care except the emergency clinic, which I don't trust, I had her sectioned. Turned out she has a stricture and would never have whelped naturally. I could have lost her, as well as five puppies!

Many of you are more experienced than I , but I thought once they had a section, the next time around, the scenario pretty much could be expected to repeat itself. That, in my limited experience, has proven true.

I have had one girl who was sectioned for her first litter and had two litters of eight or more afterwards by natural birth. Another -the one with the emergency C-section at midnight- had what started as a natural birth afterwards, but I did have a C-section to remove the last puppy.

I just don't see the reason in this thinking.... Has it come to save every puppy instead of thinking about the bitch? I'd rather loose a pup or two than to cut my bitch for no good reason. That's just my way of thinking, I think these vets are too quick to do a section that isn't needed :{.. very sad what breeding has come to nowdays.

I don't think a non-emergency C-section poses much risk to a healthy bitch, and neither does my reproductive vet. It is done in ideal conditions, and they bounce back fairly fast. The biggest damage is to my bank account! An emergency C-section DOES pose a risk to the bitch and her puppies. If you read my messages carefully, you will see that I allow 24 hours for a natural birth to proceed before I consider a C-section. If I foresee a possibility that I will need to do an emergency C-section outside the hours when my regular vets are available, that's when I do the planned C-section. In several cases when I allowed a natural birth to go forward more than 24 hours after the temperature drop, I ended up at the vet's anyway to remove dead puppies by C-section. The OP's bitch is due the day before Thanksgiving. That will give her time to allow for a natural birth. My advice is that if she finds the temperature has already dropped the evening before, and her girl hasn't done anything by closing time the day before Thanksgiving, I would consider a C-section. If the temperature doesn't drop until the due date, that's sticky. I'd see if there would be someone willing to C-section on Thanksgiving evening if necessary. At the very least I would make sure there is a vet clinic open on Friday, as some are closed. I would NOT do a C-section without giving her a chance to whelp naturally.

My girl with a stricture had her temperature drop on Friday afternoon. I elected to have a C-section done on Saturday afternoon before the repro vet's office closed. She would never have delivered those puppies on her own. Certainly the entire litter would have been lost, and possibly my girl would have been in trouble, herself. I am considering both the safety of my bitch and her puppies when I make the decision to C-section.

Dogs and humans seem to be on the same track. When my daughter gave birth, her doctors urged her to have a section. She had a vaginal delivery. Some of her friends did not want to go through child birth and opted for sections. Doctors recommend them to avoid possible problems and associated law suits. C-sections are pretty safe these day, so the question with dogs is not cut and dried. There are risks with any procedure.

Look at the following clip from http://www.childbirthconnection.org/article.asp?ck=10456

The national U.S. cesarean section rate was 4.5% and near this optimal range in 1965 when it was first measured (Taffel et al. 1987). In more recent years, large groups of healthy, low-risk American women who have received care that enhanced their bodies' innate capacity for giving birth have achieved 4% cesarean section rates and good overall birth outcomes (Johnson and Daviss 2005, Rooks et al. 1989). However, the national cesarean section rate is much higher and has been increasing steadily over the past decade. When a national rate is available for 2007, we will find that about one mother in three is now giving birth by c-section, a record level for the United States.

Sorry, I cannot agree with you on this one Peggy, anytime surgery is involved there is a risk to the health of the animal. Anestesia or post surgery complications not to mention the pain involved in having any kind of surgery, recovery takes a long time. Also from what i've read about humans they say every time a person is opened up for surgery it reduces your life span. If you've got a good relationship with your vet he should be available to come in for a section IF it is really needed. Thing is nowdays too many people jump the gun and cut the bitch when if they wait it out most times they'll deliver on their own. People are so afraid of loosing a puppy or two but i'd rather loose a puppy or two instead of cutting my bitch. No, I don't like to loose puppies but my concern if for the bitch first.

I have not had a C-section, but I have had a hysterectomy, so I do know something about the pain of abdominal surgery. I agree that a natural birth is better. But, above all, I want to avoid a situation in which I end up with an emergency C-section. I have participated in several, I've lost entire litters (fortunately not my girls) and I know they aren't as safe for my bitch as a well-organized C-section during regular working hours with a vet I know and trust as opposed to an emergency clinic vet I have never seen before. Even at my own vet's I am stuck with whoever is on call that night, and sometimes it is a large animal person. If you have a local repro vet who can and will come in at midnight and assemble a team of people to take care of the puppies while all she/he has to do is attend to your bitch, the more power to you. I suspect most people are not in that position. My repro vet is 45 minutes away, a long trip for a mother in the middle of labor.