Great pedigree with parents and grand parents very well producers, the stud is incredible, but you don't know what he prduces.

What are his chances to be a good producer?

Not sure what your criteria is for a good producer, but if the ingredients are all there, I'd say it would depend on who he was bred to.
A nice stud, no matter how good, is not going to make a bad bitch look good.

Let's say the bitch is beautifull too and a great pedigree also.

But the stud dog has never been used, so you don't know what to expect.

I've heard a lot of times that people will use a stud dog after watching what he is producing, I think sometimes you have to take risks and go with your instincts.

I would say if he is linebred and if the breeding is not an outcross, you have a good chance of the dog producing himself. If he is linebred and the breeding is an outcross, you have a bit less of a chance and if he is not linebred and the breeding is an outcross, you have less chance still. If this is the case, look for similar breedings with similar pedigrees and see what results they got to help you decide.

Every stud has to get used for the first time at some point.
If he is a nice dog and a good match, go for it!
It's always a gamble no matter if proven or not proven.

I'm going to say that if you know nothing about breeding to the point that you come on a forum and ask such a general question, that you need to do more breed research. If you could find a mentor willing to take on someone new, then that is your best choice. Breed when you know what you are doing.

Example 1, the stud is around 5% COI and the breeding will go to an 8% COI.

Example 2, the stud is around 5% COI and the breeding will go to an 8% COI.

to find a mentor even when you have really well bred nice dogs if you are new ... I've tried.

Any dog can stand at stud. Not every dog can produce quality. A great looking dog can produce very little and an average looking dog may produce greatness. A champion title is near meaningless, so that should not be a consideration. After looking at clearances, look for what the dog has produced in the offspring.
If the dog is untested, then you will have to wait until the puppies are over a year old to determine its value.

Do I detect a bit of sour grapes? Sounds like someone can't finish their dog and therefore "it doesn't matter anyway"?

To stud or not to stud

. A champion title is near meaningless, so that should not be a consideration. .

i DON'T THINK THEY MEANT IT THAT WAY. mORE LIKE A CHAMPION TITLE ON A DOG HAS NO BEARING ON HOW IT PRODUCES. sORRY FOR THE CAPS, i'M STUCK ON CAPS LOCK!!

While its nice to have titles in the show ring, some of these dogs produce only mediocrity even with good Dams.

There are many cases of Long Time Breeders who have gorgeous show dogs from Sires w/o a CH. Some have had accidents and some hate the ring and other various reasons. Its about the Pedigree mix and what you are looking for as well as Health Clearances. Every Breeder must start somewhere to formulate her lines and hopefully they will put alot of thought into the combination of Sire and Dam for a lovely outcome.

I find that comment to be a bit odd. I guess if you are hoping to be mentored by a breeder from a large kennel then I'll tell you to get in line. There are plenty of good, well respected breeders, who have/breed nice dogs but don't have the presence of others that can surely provide wonderful mentorship. Guess you need to evaluate where/who your looking to for mentorship.

Buzz off after that "sour grapes" comment. I agree with the previous comment. Need to look at the dog and what it's producing. A championship is nice, but I'll take a stud dog producing wonderful get who doesn't have title on the front of it's name over a dog who has one and can't produce consistently.

Then I'd say you aren't looking close enough.

In the last 5yrs, each stud dog that I have used did not have a CH. Studs were the best fit for my girls and pedigrees that I wanted to work with. Puppies were/are gorgeous, adults equally nice and promising. I have a youngster right now that is beautiful - sire didn't have his CH - looking forward to the shows next year with a pretty puppy at the end of the lead.

I am sorry but for those who thinks the Ch. title means alot when looking for a great stud you are so wrong. It matters not. It is what they produce and you had better do some research. Alot of the great breeders have used many dogs that don't have a title. They just knew what was behind them. And what they would most likely get. And many did. Think of all the wonderful bitc--hes in pedigree. They produced some of these nice, nice boys but they don't have a title and don't need one. You sound like someone who would only breed to clearances also. Like only an Optigen A dog. Go ahead, leave out all the good stuff.

Someone's got to use a dog first, and many times, that's often before they are a CH. There are those that are intelligent and creative and willing to take a chance on a nice pedigree to get a dog proven while they wait for him to mature or gain some ground at shows. There are those that can't figure it on their own, and use the CH Stud du Jour. Doesn't make either breeder/decision wrong. Even with a CH title, a dog may NOT be a good producer. Maybe best to hash that out before you spend thousands on shows and handlers to put that title on, to find out that the dog doesn't produce well at all.