Hey!
Question for all of you.
Scenario:
I have an EIC Clear tested girl. Breed to a boy who when asked about EIC says they don't believe the test. Pups born and all are tested. Stud owner implied I shouldn't post results. They are my pups and I paid for the test and want to post the results, am I wrong?

That's a loaded question. I feel that it will all come out eventually, so if someone inquired about it, then I feel like I should be able to share the results. I think that anytime a breeder puts a stud out there, they have to realize that the results for all aspects of the mating will be public.

I guess we have to assume that all or some of the pups tested carrier, so that would mean the stud dog is a carrier. Perhaps that is why they don't want the results posted, right? If all the pups tested clear, there is no problem. If some tested carrier, the stud owner does not want that info out there.

You want to post the results of ALL the pups or just the pups you kept to run on? I don't get it. If you are talking about your keepers and you are building a web page for them, it's your prerogative to post whatever results from whatever tests you paid for and want to display. It has nothing to do with the stud owner and your duty to them ended after you paid for the service they provided.

If it's more than that and you are talking about posting results for the litter, I don't get it. But then again, I don't get why folks were CERF an entire litter of puppies when only 1 is being kept back as a show prospect and most pet owners aren't going to see that as value added...at least they wouldn't where we live.

Did they ask before or after the stud contract (is it in the contract?) and did you tell them you would test the get?

I think it's a fine line, it depends on who you're dealing with and why they don't want it posted.

Do you want to post every pup or just your keepers? I don't see why pet pups would need to be posted on OFA or your website if that's what you intend to do. OFA posting shouldn't be done until after final hips & elbows, when the ACVO, cardiac and CNM are. So you have around 2 years to decide on posting about your keepers.

I check all pups in a litter, whether they are keeper puppies or not. If I'm producing a problem, I want to know about it. If some pups are affected with eye problems that are genetic, I want to know that my keepers may be carriers of the same problem, even though they aren't affected themselves.

Has nothing to do with value, and everything to do with a breeding program.

I get a very uneasy feeling that you just want to "out" this stud dog. YOU bred to him, not knowing his EIC status, why oh why would you feel the need to slap the stud dog owner now ?

As for the person who does not understand why we CERF entire litters:

It's not about the VALUE of the pet puppy ! How can you possibly know what is in the pedigree without testing the entire litter? The only bloody anwser is , you don't care.

Go for it - they are your puppies and your results. If the stud dog owner doesn't believe the test, then they should not believe any results, right? FWIW - I have a carrier girl and find it hard to get info out of some stud dog owners. But at this point I'm not breeding a known carrier to anything but a tested clear.

I wanted to post the results of my pups on my website. The results can't be posted on OFA anyways since was through DDC and they don't take those.
(But DNA tests don't have to wait for Hips and Elbows to be posted on OFA) I also do Echos on all my dogs and when we send in the echo results at 12 months, the DNA and Cerf show up on the site.
I'm not trying to out anyone, nothing was stated in the contract before or after signing it and I told stud owner I'd be testing all the pups, since boy wasn't tested. Stud owner didn't say I shouldn't post results, but it was implied in a conversation.
I have results from every dog I have on my website and didn't want someone to "think" that the pups were affected or untested. (I know they can't be affected out of a clear dam but alot of people don't know that).

I really do not see why it matters to the stud dog owner whether you post results or not. I bred a clear bitch to an untested male and several of the puppies were EIC tested - all are carriers and this information is public. Also public are their passing elbow and hip ratings, eye clearances, etc. If a stud dog owner only wants the passing information made public, the dog should not be at public stud. No dog is perfect and each dog can pass on both desirable and undesirable traits (the definition of which is left to the person who must live with these traits). Information allows people to make informed decisions. For anyone who has a carrier bitch or who is looking for an EIC clear stud dog, an untested dog is not (tested) clear and therefore is no different than a carrier or an affected dog. For those who do not believe in the test, test results are irrelevant.

It's like breeding to a dog on prelims - some people don't care and some do. It doesn't change the fact that a dog that fails hips at 2 but was bred on good prelims still does not have a clearance at the end of the day, and those that care are going to wait. Those that don't care will breed regardless of clearances.

Just wanted to say that I also CERF all my pups. All of this is information. I do believe, like alot of you that there is something missing in the EIC test (a trigger gene or inhibitor gene) but its information. Alot of us do Cardiac tests and that costs way more than the EIC and doesn't tell us if our dog has any type of TVD or not (and is very gray). But all of it, TVD, EIC, Cerf, is information for us to use in making breeding decisions moving forward.
I'm just shocked by some people's response to the test. If we found a test that if your dog tested clear or carrier, would never have hip dysplasia, but that of the dogs that are affected some wouldn't have hip dysplasia, you wouldn't use it?
To me as long as I test I can breed ANYTHING, even an affected and know that inhibitor/trigger gene or not, I won't produce a puppy that has EIC, its well worth the little cost the test is.
Okay off my soapbox now.

I would post the results for the pups you are going to keep. Posting beyond that would be looking for trouble. Someone may start spreading a rumor that you're a "stud dog basher". Stud dogs get blamed for too many problems. JMHO

If it was IMPLIED in a conversation, then I would say you already covered that territory with stud dog owner. Either your word means something or it does not.
If you are making a web page for your KEEPER puppy, then by all means post the result of THAT puppy. I doubt you are making web pages for every puppy in the litter. We all know things from specific lines, and we all have the decency to not shout it from the roof top.

The reason people CERF an entire litter - or at least have a litter exam done by a ACVO vet - is to build their knowledge about what is produced by their lines so that they will know how or whether to breed that bitch in the future. Some would say that to do otherwise is irresponsible.

Its ONLY the keeper pups!

then post it on your website, if you wish, as you would any other clearance.

Why is this "decency" when the information could be helpful to other people? These are dogs, not personal reflections of you, and the fact that they might carry the gene for some disease should be out in the open so everyone can make educated decisions when breeding. I can't tell you the number of times I've done my research (I thought) on dogs, only to find out about something "everyone" knew about, after the fact.

I absolutely agree!

As the owner of an EIC affected dog who does collapse, I say post the info. Those who don't believe in the test at all have their heads in the sand. It is helpful to others to know the information so we can make educated decisions.

I think a couple of key notes here are the fact that you knowingly bred to a stud without the clearance or known status. you have concerns about posting it on your website now- but did you think about the possibility during that discussion, what if some are affected- then how would you handle it.
The other keynote here too is that if you are feeling uneasy about posting the results, maybe you shouldn't.
Only you can make that choice, as yes, they are your pups and you did make the choice to test them. if you are keeping 1 or 2, or 4 -- post their status on your website since you do for all your dogs. why feel uneasy about that.
You would i think have to explain it anyway if you discuss clearances with your potential families. you have to explain at the start : Jane Doe has EIC - and John Doe does not. and then proceed to explain what it means.
Leaving inquiring minds to come up with their own conclusions while viewing your website is going to happen either way.

Just my opinion! not judging here...just expressing my opinion.

NONE of the pups would be "Affected" (if the test is accurate.) Geesh...all the ignorance and misunderstanding of testing really can cause problems when people start giving out their "expert" opinions!

Actually, the reason people cerf an entire litter goes beyond general knowledge. Cerf is looking for several things, not just recessive things that aren't going to show up in puppies such as PRA. It looks in litters for such things as folds, juvenile cataracts, etc.

With this issue, (EIC) the OP knows they're not going to produce the problem, (if in fact, you believe in the testing,) but at the worst case, could produce carriers. People Optigen test entire litters, for the general knowledge and to assist them with decisions related to possible future breeding. Mind you I doubt people would post the entire litter's results. As many have pointed out, if the OP is considering setting up a webpage for the puppy in question, it's their business what they choose to share on it. They can do that without permission of the stud dog, obviously.

I do wonder if this format (posting it here) could cause undue speculation and gossip. I hope that was not the intent of the OP. Many people aren't sure of their final opinions on this testing and are still in the process of gathering info and deciding whether they really believe it, whether they think there's still some unknown factor, possibly related to certain triggers, and many recall the early days with Optigen and are taking a wait and see approach. Heck, I myself have had the swabs sitting around for ages and keep meaning to do everyone and send them in.

This is just a reminder that every time we allow our stud dog to be used, we must consider these kinds of issues, whether it be publicly discussing these things, (kudo's to the OP for not disclosing more about the sire) but also the fact that those pups can be sold to gawd knows who, some puppy mill down the road, a broker, etc...... Lots to consider......

I have no issue with the results, I wouldn't have used an untested stud dog if I wasn't okay with getting at least some or possibly all carrier pups. The issue is with the stud owner who claims to not believe the test, but yet implied I should only post the clear pups on my website. That would to some pet people (since I have other carrier dogs listed as carriers) maybe infer that they are affected (which those who understand the test correctly would know can't happen) but why should I refrain from posting results on MY pups, from a test I paid for and have it look bad on MY website because they don't want others to see that there dog is a carrier?
What I don't understand is that, to those who use the test, an untested dog has to be assumed affected/carrier and only bred to a clear bitch, so carrier is better than affected!
Thanks everyone for the input, the pups status is up on my website now.