I am posted this for a very upset breeder friend that is very much in need of help. I hope someone out there has some idea what this is.

Litter was born on their due date. All puppies were about one pound. All born via vaginal birth (no c-section or intervention). All of the puppies were healthy at birth, active and nursing. Puppies were gaining and growing. Until ...

On day five one of the puppies started acting a little less active and wasn't as interested in nursing. There was no weight gain for that day. Puppy started fading so sub-q fluids and tube feeding was done to try to perk her up. Lost puppies within 12 hours. Vet was notified. Mother was running a little temp so vet put her on antibiotics.

On day six the litter had a little diarrhea - vet said was from mother's antibiotics.

On day seven another puppy did pretty much the same thing as first and despite all efforts he died within 12 hours. Vet was notified and said to just watch them.

On day nine the entire litter and mom were taken to the vet when another puppy started exhibiting same signs as first two. Vet put the puppies on oral antibiotics. Fluids were given but despite efforts third puppy died this morning.

Another puppy is now sick.

So - the scenario is this. Healthy litter born at term, puppies are healthy and nursing, growing and gaining, then one by one are getting sick and within 12 hours dying. They are not cold or hot nor have they been. They are not dehydrated (fluids are being given). Anyone have any other ideas?

We are not asking for medical advise but are hoping that there is someone out there who has had a similar experience of just has an idea of what to do from here before this entire litter is lost.

Thanks!

Has the vet checked for herpes?

I would try to get a specialist on the phone and find out what to do right away.

I have never had this happen, but have heard about toxic milk or maybe herpes. There must be something going on with the entire litter - not just one fading puppy.

Was the mom's milk tested? Are the babies screaming?

The babies are not screaming. They go from being perfectly normal, nursing and moving around the box to sick to dead within 12 hours.

They did not check for herpes. Is that something the puppies or the mother should be tested for?

Contact Hemopet in CA in a few hours, or now you could contact Dr. Justin Strauss in NJ in Fairfield at Animal Emergency. I have heard of a Dobe litter doing this post c-section years ago, and what was done to save the remainder of the pups. A serum can be made from mother's blood, and pups protected that way. Also consider turning up heat and treating/testing for herpes. There is also a less specific plasma product for newborns from Hemopet, but these pups have had colostrum, so I don't know if it would be indicated. The above vets could maybe refer you to someone experienced with this in your area.
Here is a link on the plasma use for fading puppies. A local breeder may have some in her freezer, but a plasma or serum from the dam may be best and most specific. Where are you?
http://www.hemopet.org/files/QQ%20Treating%20Fading%20Puppy%20Syndrome.pdf

It is hard to get an absolute answer on whether a bitch may carry herpes at end stage pregnancy and the test (I believe) takes at least a few days to get results. You (a vet) can determine (visually) from the puppies that have been lost if herpes is suspected. Usually herpes is painful for the pups, though, and they cry.

I assume that the antibiotics the mom is on is okay for pups?

I hope a necropsy was performed? Some things can be determined by eye, but if nothing is obvious, it's worth sending tissue samples for further testing.

There's nothing worse than not knowing what you are dealing with

sounds like canine herpes virus. Have your vet do a necropsy immediately if he has one of the pups that passed. as soon as he looks inside, he will know immediately because there will be lesions.

Very sorry and best of luck

Thank you - I will pass along this information!

By the way, are there any known treatments for herpes?

I would definately investigate Herpes. I know 3 litters that have been lost to Herpes in the way you are describing.

Just heartbreaking. Please pass along our support and condolences.

Friend with a litter lost 1 female on the first day. Over the course of the next few weeks, 3 more females got listless, wouldn't eat, didn't gain. She took them all into the vets office IMMEDIATELY. While they didn't definitively diagnose the problem, they assumed it was some bug. Between oxygen and fluids at the vet's these pups survived just fine and went home the next day. Maybe a vet visit would be been more helpful? I don't know. It's so hard to tell what's wrong at that age.

These are the steps that I would take.
1. Give a dab of karo syrup to each puppy, or some kind of glucose handy (sugar, other syrup, honey, nutrical) something that gives them energy.
2. I would put mom on Milkaid (you can buy it a revival) in case her milk is toxic.
3. Warm up those pups to 100F in case that is herpes. While you find out if this is the problem.

Hopefully your vet can find what is happening. It's frustrating to loose your little angels. It happened to me, 4 little ones in the first 24 hrs, it was devastating.

There is two main possibilities:
1.- Herpes virus, no much to do. Keeping the puppies in a incubator and tube feed until they pass it or die. It is pretty easy to diagnose by doing a necropsy on the dead puppies. There would be typical necrotic points in the kidneys and other organs. Your vet should be able to do it in 5 minutes.
2.- Toxic milk, feed them something else like Esbilac or goat milk as soon as they start showing sign of depression. If they are too depressed, wash the stomach content (with a feeding tube) and feed them something else than mom's milk. Do they have their bellies expanded with gas after they eat? it might be it. Having the mom on antibiotics prevents toxic milk, so I don't think this is the problem.

This is most likely herpes. Pups do not always cry with this as they die. None of mine did. It happened in the exact same way you describe here.
The only advice I can give you is to heat up the room they are in to above 100 degrees (this saved 1/4 of my litter).
The pups that get sick, will not live. No matter what you do. You are now trying to save the remaining pups that haven't shown symptoms.

TREATMENT OF INDIVIDUAL PUPPIES ILL WITH HERPES
Until recently all puppies manifesting herpes illness died within a very short period of time, usually within a few hours of showing symptoms. There are however two techniques for the treatment of these puppies that have had considerable success.
-
TREATMENT 1
Ronald Bell, DVM

*Puppy should weigh between 2 and 3 pounds.
*Acyclovir powder in capsules: Mix 200 mg capsule in 10c.c. of warm water. The powder will not dissolve but is suspended. Administer 0.5 c.c. (10 mg) to each puppy every 6 hours until puppies are 3 1/2 weeks old. My vet had our local pharmacist flavor it with beef
*Place in incubator
*Give fluids orally

Treatment of puppies does not guarantee that reproductive lesions will not appear before puberty. Lesions are found both in the prepuce (balanophthitis) and vagina, however, no reproductive symptoms have been observed in the treated puppies.


TREATMENT 2 (I personally have not tried this method)
Technique by: A.W. Sears, DVM

*Puppy should weigh between 1 and 3 pounds
*DISTEMPER ANTI VIRAL SERUM: Administer 1 c.c. subcutaneously to each puppy every 12 hours for 36 hours, (3 doses).
*Lasix: One drop orally, (To control lung edema)
*Kaon (Potassium Gluconate elixir): Administer one drop orally every hour for 3 hours, (To control loss of potassium).
*Chloromycetin: Administer 0.05c.c. orally once daily, (to control lung infection).
*Gancylovir: Administer 0.1 c.c. subcutaneously to each puppy.
*Incubator: Keep puppies in incubator at 96 degrees for 24 hours.
*Fluids: Give plenty of fluids orally, sugar water works well, as do neonatal puppy formulas.

-

TREATMENT OF SICK LITTERS
Newborn puppies from suspected kennels or dams with herpes virus can be treated with a subcutaneous injection of 1c.c. of Distemper anti viral serum given to each puppy immediately after birth and repeated 24 hours later. This will dramatically reduce the death rate.

Good Luck I hope you are able to save the majority of your puppies.

This is so sad. How is it happening ? Can some one who has history give us some more information. So very sorry for you and the pups.

Thank you everyone for your helpful advice. My vet is thinking it is Herpes syndrome at this time. I am warming the babies at this time and would apprecieate all the prayers I can get.
The babies are crying when they get sick but not before. This is just heart breaking to hear. At this time we have lost three with one getting sluggish and one with discharge from her eye. The other three are strong at this point.
Has anyone had any success with putting the babies on antiviral meds at this point? example Acyclovir
They are currently on Amoxi

I lost a puppy at ten days......she started with soft stool.....stopped nursing and in 12 hours began screaming. I took her to 24 hour ER Vet....she died from respiratory failure. They told me they were pretty sure it was Herpes. I heated the wheping box and put the puppies on Acyclovir for ten days. All of the puppies were stressed....had loose greenish stools and were irritable. I also gave them oral fluids......I don't think I slept for a week. All of the puppies survived. I sent the one pup for a necropsy......two weeks later the report came back....herpes negative and a diagnosis of Canine Minute Virus....a type of parvo that is not a pathogen to older dogs. It probably came form the mother....who never left my property except to have an xray to count heads a few days before whelping. I have been told that this virus can be the cause of many unknown puppy deaths.

Call Jean Dodds. Ask for a consultation and let them know it is an emergency. She will work with your vet.

Dr. Jean Dodds: Hemopet / HEMOLIFE Office: (Wed/Thurs)
Phone: 714/ 891-2022 -- Pacific Time
Fax: 714/ 891-2123 (Lab Fax: 714/ 891-2124)
11561 Salinaz Avenue
Garden Grove, CA 92843 USA

I have no experience with it but am thinking Herpes too.

Praying hard that the rest of your pups survive this, whatever it is.

I agree with calling Dodds. She is very quick to respond - even via email.

YES I have used Acylovir and I completely believe it helped save some of my puppies. I have had herpes twice. I lost an entire litter the 1st time, the 2nd time around there were 7 puppies, I lost 3, saved 4. Contact Sally and Ron Bell of Borador for information on Acylovir and doseage. I dont remember the dose off hand but got it from Dr. Ron. I also posted above saying I thought it was herpes and suggested an immediate necropsy as your vet will see lesions. Keep them warm. I also had a puppy that started showing signs and within 5 hours of starting the Acyclovir she improved and I did not loose her.

You should also know I found others that also used Acyclovir, some it worked for, others it did not.

Good Luck!!

Good Luck

Any experience with Tamiflu and Herpes virus?

I had a litter almost 5 years ago now, started with 9 healthy puppies. At 4 weeks old (very late) they started going downhill one by one. when the first one died, we did a neocropsy and found out they had herpes. Got in touch with Ronald Bell and talked to him at lenght and he gave me the treatment options. We did the acyclovir. He said that the amoxi is to treat the secondary infection, ie. pneumonia is usually the killer that is brought on by the herpes infection leading to immune system weakness. By the time we got them on it we had lost 3 more. I did manage to save the other 5. They lived in my bathroom in 80+ degrees until almost 6 weeks old, on the acyclovir solution and maybe they were old enough, maybe it worked, dont' know, but if I ever run in to it again, I will definately go with the same treatment plan. At 5 years of age, they have no ill effects. None of them have been bred, as 4 are in pet homes and one is my silly boy. He did have swollen retina's at his 7 week cerf that the vet thought would be related, but he's cerf'd normal since.

I'll be thinking about you.

Chantel