I have done extensive research for EIC clear dogs, but the pedigrees I want to use are either carriers or untested. So, now I'm just trying to broaden my search. I remember in the past there were postings of a voluntary listing of EIC clear dogs so I'm asking if there is such a list? I did check Labradata, and that has not been updated in many months (and I find it difficult to use). I'm not looking to feed any fires, just asking for help finding resources to think outside of the box.

Hi there, I'm sure if you contact anyone from the Labradata board, they would be happy to guide you through the site.

I have just completed an extensive trawl of many, many websites to find a stud for my girl who is coming to join her half sister and her nephew here in
Australia. I am pleased to say that I found the right dog.

Sometimes you need to contact the stud owner and ask the question.

www.retrievertraining.net

Has a volunteer list where people are posting their EIC and sometimes CNM results. Most are "field" dogs, but some are also show dogs.

I have my clearances listed on my web site and have not paid the fee to have it posted on the OFA site. I am sure there are many breeders like me who have done the same.

MWK

http://www.labradori.fi/jalostus/geenitestattujen_tuloksia.html

finnish labrador club is having tests done at most club events, and results are published on club webpage.

also FKC database shows all info of any registered dog, any breed in finland, updated frequently.

When they find the gene, then and only then, will we trust any "EIC" test results. Results posted from a test that has not even found the gene is about as good as no test at all.

It is not a matter of trusting, it is a matter of knowing how to use it.

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With all due respect, maybe you should re-visit the research.

The gene HAS been identified

refer:-

http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/vth/sac/exlabtrt.pdf

Whether you personally agree with this or not is irrelevant. The research is widely available.

By all means voice your own doubts if that is your wish, but please do not post unsubstantiated biases on a public forum as fact.

If you have documentation dated after the above publication which disproves the test, please share it with us all.

With all due respect, Olivia, "a" gene has been identified - it's not necessarily "the" gene as the only thing the researchers say is the gene is associated with EIC, but clearly there are modifiers of some kind. You're right, it's not a marker test, but IMHO, a test that needs more research to nail down the other genes that work together with the already-identified gene to actually cause the collapse.

OK, here is the article I referred to. It is quite long which is why I just posted the link earlier.

Questions 11 thru 15 deal with the gene and its effects.

Ultimately, people will read what they will into the the printed matter on eic and the debate will no doubt rage on for some time.

My take on it is that the test identifies the gene and I will use that knowledge in my breeding program to ensure that no puppy bred by me will have 2 copies of the mutant DNM1 gene, just as I will use the PCRD DNA testing to ensure I never breed a puppy with PCRD.

Each and every one of us must make our own mind up about the importance of not producing affected animals (symptomatic or not).

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FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT EIC
With permission from the University of Minnesota Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory Website (May 4, 2009)
1. What is Exercise Induced Collapse (EIC)?
Dogs affected with EIC can tolerate mild to moderate exercise, but 5 to 20 minutes of strenuous exercise with extreme excitement induces weakness and then collapse. Severely affected dogs may collapse whenever they are exercised to this extend – other dogs only exhibit collapse episodes sporadically.
The first thing noted during an episode is usually a rocking or forced gait. The rear limbs then become weak and unable to support weight. Many affected dogs will continue to run while dragging their back legs. Some of the dogs appear to be uncoordinated, especially in the rear limbs, with a wide-based, long, loose stride rather than the sort stiff strides typically associated with muscle weakness. In some dogs the rear limb collapse progresses to forelimb weakness and occasionally to a total inability to move. Some dogs appear to have a loss of balance and may fall over, particularly as they recover from complete collapse. Most collapsed dogs are totally conscious and alert, still trying to run and retrieve, but as many as 25% of affected dogs will appear stunned or disoriented during the episode.
2. What is EIC's mode of inheritance?
EIC is inherited in an autosomal recessive fashion. Every dog inherits either the N (normal) or the E (EIC mutant) form of the DNM1 gene from each parent. N/N - Clear E/N - Carrier E/E - Affected
3. Is EIC only a problem in Labrador Retrievers from field trial lines?
No. We have identified the EIC gene at a high carrier rate (> 30%) in all Labrador lines tested: field trial, hunt test, conformation, pet and service.
4. Is EIC only a problem in Labrador Retrievers?
No. Although EIC and the DNM1 gene mutation are quite common in Labrador Retrievers, we have also identified it in several other breeds, including Chesapeake Bay Retrievers and Curly Coated Retrievers. The full extent of breeds that may be affected by EIC is not yet known.
5. My dog is E/E but to my knowledge has never collapsed.
To date we have identified over 800 dogs as E/E. More than 80% of all E/E dogs that are over age 3 have been observed to collapse. The remaining E/E dogs over age 3, and in particular younger E/E dogs may not yet have been exposed to sufficient conditions to initiate a collapse.
Besides excitement and exercise intensity, other factors affecting the likelihood of an E/E dog collapsing also appear to include the level of stress experienced in training in the different lines, including the use of e-collars and the difficulty of the retrieving event. The E/E dogs most commonly seen to experience EIC episodes also seem to have a very excitable temperament and lots of drive.
We consider all E/E dogs genetically susceptible to EIC. However, like any genetic disease, calling EIC a simple autosomal recessive disease is not completely accurate, as it is possible that some E/E dogs may never exhibit signs of EIC.
Thus being E/E does not guarantee that an individual dog will show classic signs of EIC, but dogs with classic signs of EIC are E/E. We understand that this can be confusing, and lead some to hope that there is some other cause for EIC than this DNM1 mutation. Please note however, that we have seen several examples of non-collapsing E/E dogs producing affected offspring.
6. My dog collapses but is not E/E.
It is important to realize that there are many other potential causes of collapse with exercise, that are not EIC, and these disorders or events are not necessarily caused by genetics or an EIC gene. These other causes include, but are not limited to: heart disease, lung disease, heat stroke, malignant hyperthermia, myasthenia gravis; muscular diseases, including CNM; Addison’s disease, and other neurologic and metabolic diseases.
7. Is EIC related to CNM?
CNM, or centronuclear myopathy, is also present in Labrador Retrievers. However, it is a completely different disease from EIC in both its clinical and physiological basis, and is due to a mutation in a different gene. It is theoretically possible that a dog could have only the CNM mutation, only the EIC mutation, or have both mutations. More information on CNM can be obtained from the following site: http://labradorcnm.com
8. Can my E/N dog have episodes of EIC?
Our testing to date has identified more than 2,000 dogs with the E/N genotype. Approximately 96% of these dogs have no signs of EIC or any type of collapse, while approximately 4% have been reported to show some signs of collapse or intolerance associated with exercise. The vast majority of these collapses can be attributed to other medical conditions, or their signs are not consistent with the classic signs of EIC that start with wobbliness in the rear legs.
Similarly, approximately 5% of all dogs with the N/N genotype are reported by owners to show some signs of an exercise-associated weakness or collapse. Again, this is likely due to other causes and is not classic EIC. Thus, we feel there is sufficient evidence to state that carriers of the EIC gene are no more likely to show signs of a collapse than are clear dogs, and that any collapse symptoms they do have are very unlikely to be EIC.
In other words, there are many possible reasons as to why a dog can to collapse during exercise, and the mutant EIC gene is present at a high frequency in the population. It appears at this time that there is no association between carrier status and EIC.
9. At what age does EIC typically develop?
Even though a dog’s genetic susceptibility to EIC is determined by the combination of E or N forms of the EIC gene it obtains from its parents, signs of EIC do not typically develop until the dogs begin intense retriever training. First symptoms are usually noted between 5 months and 3 years of age. However, we have confirmed affected dogs who did not have collapse episodes until as late as age 10.
10. Does the ambient temperature or the body temperature play a role in EIC?
Dogs that collapse with EIC, as well as normal dogs after similar exercise, have a temperature of 106-108 F. We believe it is possible that the activity of the E form of the protein may be further diminished by the elevated body temperatures that usually develop during exercise itself. Evidence that DNM1 mutations cause temperature sensitive alterations in dynamin 1 function, resulting in neurological and neuromuscular defects are found in other organisms, including fruit flies (Drosophila melanogaster), and worms (C elegans). While dogs can collapse under any temperature and humidity conditions, it has been found that higher than normal temperature and humidity can make a collapsing event more likely to occur.
11. How certain are you that you have found the EIC gene?
We performed a genetic linkage study to identify the chromosomal location of EIC gene. An examination of the inheritance pattern of DNA markers in multi-generation Labrador Retriever pedigrees where EIC was present eventually identified a small segment on canine chromosome 9 that must contain the EIC gene. An analysis with another type of DNA marker then further narrowed the region that must contain the EIC gene down to about a dozen genes.
We then sequenced the DNA of several of these genes that are involved in muscle and nerve metabolism and function. That is when a DNA sequence difference (i.e., a mutation) between EIC and control dogs in the DNM1 gene was identified.
A manuscript reporting these exciting results was published in the October 2008 issue of Nature Genetics, one of the most highly regarded journals of genetic research. The article can be found under the following citation: Patterson EE, Minor KM, Tchernatynskaia AV, Taylor SM, Shelton GD, and Mickelson JR. (200 . A canine dynamin 1 (DNM1) mutation is highly associated with the syndrome of exercise-induced collapse. Nature Genetics 40, 1235-1239.
12. Is the EIC DNA test a marker test or a gene mutation test?
We are testing for a single DNA base pair change in a specific gene, the DNM1 gene; therefore this can be referred to as a gene mutation test. This situation is different from other types of genetic tests that describe only the identification of a DNA marker that could be very far away from the EIC gene, and not be as highly predictive of the true gene and mutation as desired. The results for this EIC mutation test will always be the same for samples provided from the same dog.
13. What is meant by saying that the DNM1 mutation is highly associated with EIC?
Scientists are always cautious in reporting conclusions regarding data to other scientists and to the public, and in so doing usually try not to state anything has a 100% certainty of being correct. However, the chances that the DNM1 mutation is not associated with EIC are less than 1 in a trillion as reported in our Nature Genetics article.
The role of DNM1 in nerve and muscle function clearly supports it being an extremely plausible EIC gene. A description of the precise effect of the DNM1 mutation on the function of the dynamin 1 protein remains before we can even more confidently state that the DNM1 mutation (i.e., E form of the this gene) is the causative EIC mutation.
In other words, in calling this DNM1 mutation highly associated with EIC, we are acknowledging that we have not yet proven this mutation to be causative by functional experiments, and are simply following a convention among scientists in reserving final judgment as to whether this mutation is the absolute genetic and physiological cause of EIC. There is also always a small statistical chance that another DNM1 gene mutation, in near-perfect linkage with the known DNM1 mutation, could be identified and prove to be the causative mutation.
14. What does the DNM1 gene do?
The DNM1 gene and its mutation are a compelling candidate gene and causal mutation for EIC due to the critical role of the dynamin 1 protein in synaptic communication between nerves in the central nervous system and between nerve and muscle at the neuromuscular junction.
Specifically, both nerve and neuromuscular synaptic transmission requires the fusion of small intracellular synaptic vesicles containing neurotransmitter with the nerve cell membrane. The neurotransmitters are then released and diffuse to the adjacent neuron or muscle fiber and trigger a response (either nerve signal propagation or muscle contraction).
The dynamin 1 protein normally functions to help reform new synaptic vesicles from the membrane. These reformed vesicles can again be filled with neurotransmitter to enable synaptic transmission to
be sustained. Dynamin 1 is particularly critical to synaptic vesicle formation during times of high stimulation when synaptic vesicle use is very high.
We hypothesize that the mutated form of the dynamin protein will have diminished function, interrupting synaptic transmission during intense exercise, and causing the muscle-controlling nerves to not fire when directed to do so, resulting in lack of nerve and muscle control, and a collapse.
15. How does the mutant DNM1 gene cause EIC?
The DNM1 gene produces a protein called dynamin 1 that functions in communication between neurons in the central nervous system, and between the motor neuron and the muscle fiber at the neuromuscular junction. It is known that mice with no functional DNM1 gene or dynamin 1 protein at all die soon after birth. Therefore, we hypothesize that the DNM1 gene mutation found in EIC susceptible dogs causes a somewhat diminished function (but not a complete lack of function) of the dynamin 1 protein in the brain and nerve fibers.
It is likely that carrier dogs, which would have both the E and the N forms of the dynamin 1 protein in their neurons, have enough functional dynamin 1 to ensure neural function in all situations. Even E/E dogs that produce only the E form of the protein function normally under non-stressful situations. This supports the idea that the EIC form of the protein works sufficiently well to enable normal nerve communication during mild to moderate activity.
However, we also hypothesize that in E/E dogs the activity of only the E form of the protein is not sufficient to deal with high activity levels that can occur, such as during strenuous exercise and intense excitement. This then is the precipitating event that causes the collapse.
16. Should I only use N/N dogs for breeding to prevent the possibility of producing E/E pups?
Although using only N/N dogs would more rapidly remove the prospect of EIC from future generations, it is very likely not the best approach to dealing with this problem, and we do not recommend this approach. Many excellent dogs in all other respects are E/N or even E/E, and to breed entirely away from their lines would potentially lose many of their finest attributes that people have come to accept, demand, and cherish.
Our data to date indicate that only E/E dogs are documented to have exhibited the classic signs of EIC. There is no chance of producing an E/E puppy if it is known that at least one of the parents is N/N. A breeding program that utilizes E/N or even E/E dogs can be logically implemented by mating to N/N dogs and retaining E/N or N/N puppies for future breeding that also retain most or all of the other highly desired characteristics. In general, we recommend matings that produce fewer carrier (E/N) dogs in each successive generation.
17. What sample types does the VDL accept for EIC testing?
Due to technology upgrades, we are now able to accept dew claws (NEWLY WHELPED PUPPIES ONLY), blood, semen and cheek swab samples.
18. How old does the dog have to be to be tested?
- We can test dew claws from the removed tissue of newly whelped pups.
For blood sample testing, the dog should be old enough to have 1-3 ml of blood drawn by a veterinarian. Generally this is 5-6 weeks of age or older.
After a pup has been weaned, we can accept cheek swab samples.
19. Can I update a result report for my pup with their registration information?
Yes, if a permanent ID was verified at the time of testing, we can update their report. Please email eicinfo@umn.edu for instructions.
20. Do puppies from 2 parents that have tested N/N need to be tested?
No. As long as there were absolutely no surprises or accidents with the breeding, or mix-ups with the puppies, only puppies that will be used for breeding need to be tested. However, we will not certify the status of untested pups.
21. Is there a list of clear dogs?
The VDL does not directly maintain a list of clear dogs. However, the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (www.offa.org) does host EIC data.
This list can be accessed at http://www.offa.org/search.html. Go to the second scrollable column of the section labeled "Report Type," scroll down below the DNA subheading and click on Exercise Induced Collapse. Then click the "begin search" button at the bottom of the table.
22. Why doesn’t the VDL maintain a list of clear dogs?
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We believe it is important not to breed to a single test result, such as EIC clear status. Other important issues include hip, patella, elbow, eye, thyroid and heart health; as well as genetic status for inherited diseases we can test for.
OFA provides a single interactive database that contains this information all in one place.
23. How do I report my dog's result to the OFA?
Owners may submit results themselves following the instructions on the result report.
When you receive your results you may make a copy of the first page, sign and fax or mail it with fee to the address below with a check made payable to OFA. The results will be uploaded to the OFA open database and will be published on the OFA website.
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals 2300 E Nifong Blvd Columbia , MO 65201-3806 or fax to 573-875-5073
Fees
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Submission fee/individual - $15.00
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A litter of 3 or more submitted together - $30.00 total
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Kennel rate (5 or more individuals submitted as a group, owned/co-owned by the same person) - $7.50 each
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Affected dogs at any age are no charge

The gene that they are looking for has been identified. Is it actually what causes a collapse? A lot of well informed and experienced people have their doubts. There are many, many dogs with 2 copies of the gene running in field trials who have NEVER collapsed. There are dogs with only one copy of the gene (carriers, non-affected)) who have collapsed - according to the experts, you need 2 copies of the gene in order to be "affected".

So yes, the test works. It identifies the gene the lab is looking for.

I have in the past, and I did again. My post remains unchanged.

There are none so blind as those who do not want to see.

As I said in an earlier post, people will do what they will do.

The main thing is not to deliberately muddy the waters with misinformation for those who genuinely want correct and scientifically supported information.

So far, my cautious approach has produced some 30 plus champions, many of them specialty winners & some all breed BIS winners in two breeds, with no preventable health issues.

My dogs generally live into their mid teens and in the case of my Maltese, up to 17+ years.

I did check Labradata, and that has not been updated in many months ***************************************************

Labradata can only be updated when people submit results. The site is completely up to date

I resent those remarks if they are directed at me, as I sense that they are. The same sentiment can be applied to you as you seem to not accept any opinion other than the one you insist is the only one to have unless one wishes to be characterized as "blind". No one is muddying water with "misinformation" by posing an alternative opinion to one held by anyone else. What right do you have to say so?

I have every right to voice my opinion. I will continue to do so without calling others names and casting aspersions as you have done, Olivia Nankivell.

The researchers at the University of Minnesota have admitted that a sizeable percentage of "tested" dogs who carry both copies of the gene have never collapsed, and they refuse to call it a simple autosomal recessive as some other tests do which accurately identify "Clear", "Carrier" and "Affected". read section 5 above.

Mode of inheritance is everything. Anyone assuming that finding a gene means it is inherited as a simple recessive is not thinking.

Please yourself gail with no other name

I have heard anecdotal stories that there are many show bred labs that are genetically affected and have never collapsed; however, it is rare to see a show bred Lab at a hunt test let alone at a field trial. All of the field people I know who are running field trials with their dogs support and use the test because they have seen issues. That isn’t to say that some affected/non-collapsing dogs aren’t successfully running field trials, but I believe the number will diminish over time because the field community appears to be making efforts to reduce affected dogs from the gene pool via testing. Also, I have heard of no carriers that have collapsed from EIC (collapse from heat stroke and other issues, yes). If there is scientific data out there to suggest otherwise, I would be interested in seeing it.

This test is a tool like any other. Some will use it and some will not, depending on what they believe and what risk they can live with. There are plenty of people who put no stock in (or do not wait for) OFA results when making breeding decisions. There are people breeding dogs that have seizured. I know of a PRA carrier that was bred to an untested puppy dog who was out of a carrier bitch. People breed to dogs they have only seen in pictures, having no idea how they move, the quality of the coat, etc. Each individual has different things they are looking for and some attributes are more important than others. As long as they are willing to assume responsibility for what they produce, it is their decision. As far as the EIC test is concerned, I personally believe there is some other factor involved in addition to two copies of the gene that causes collapse; however, I know that if I include at least one clear in my breeding pair, that other factor is irrelevant and I will never have to worry about an EIC collapse in the offspring. For me, that is valuable knowledge.

To the OP’s question, OFA lists EIC results if the owner has chosen to test and submit results. So does Labradata. As is the case with any listing, it will never contain the names of dogs that have not been submitted by the owners.

Now, THAT's the Olivia we all know and love!

Olivia, just because you post with your full name does not mean anyone else has to. Please don't take over for your *banned buddy* who is feeding you the verbage you post anyway. She's the queen of bans from 2 boards I know of.

If Gail wants to post her first name and opinion she's allowed to. We live in the United States of America and are allowed Free Speech. I don't know where you live or care. Leave others alone, post what you believe but let them do the same. You can't take over for Maureen. That's an impossible task.

Here we go again! The dynamin 1 mutation is definitely recessive. The incidence of collapsing dogs is no higher in E/N carriers than it is in N/N noncarriers; about 1% of the EIC-like collapses occur in non-E/E dogs. This is a mimicking condition that is much rarer than true EIC. You can eliminate 99% of this type of collapse by avoiding producing E/E dogs. We do preventative things that are much less effective than that! Don't we wish that the incidence of hip dysplasia produced by X-rayed clear dogs was 1%?

It is true that there are dogs that are E/E and do not collapse. BUT they can still pass the gene on and, when bred to a carrier, produce dogs that collapse. Testing is done at least as much for the benefit of future generations as for the actual dog that is being tested, probably more so. The fact that many E/E dogs do not collapse is not a big issue. We are trying to PREVENT EIC, not PRODUCE it! We don't know exactly how to produce it, but we do know we can effectively prevent it by including at least one N/N parent in each breeding. This has been clearly stated many times over on this forum and in other places. I truly do not see why it is so hard for people to understand if they want to understand it.

I have been contacted several times recently by long-time experienced breeders who had reservations about the test and its necessity, then discovered they had produced a collapsing dog. I co-bred one myself before the test was available. In fact, I hadn't even heard of EIC at the time. Then I talked to a friend who had used a show bred MH on a field-bred girl she suspected was an EIC carrier specifically because she wanted to avoid EIC and got a litter with multiple collapsing dogs. The stud dog had never collapsed himself- still hasn't as far as I know, but he tested E/E. And he produced it. Maybe it will never show up in your lines, but if you allow your stud to be used by someone with different lines or if you do an outcross breeding and combine two carriers, you may be the next person calling someone to find out more about the test.

Olivia, just because you post with your full name does not mean anyone else has to. Please don't take over for your *banned buddy* who is feeding you the verbage you post anyway. She's the queen of bans from 2 boards I know of.

If Gail wants to post her first name and opinion she's allowed to. We live in the United States of America and are allowed Free Speech. I don't know where you live or care. Leave others alone, post what you believe but let them do the same. You can't take over for Maureen. That's an impossible task.[/quote]
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I actually don't give a rat's rectum what name she or anyone else chooses to use.

As for your other comment re Maureen, I do not need anyone to tell me what to post,or not to post. I have a very good brain of my own and use it to make rational decisions about information provided and backed up by scientific evidence.

I too live in a free country (AUSTRALIA) and am able to make up my mind and speak it as I wish.

I have no problem with what anyone posts about any subject provided it is consistent with the available research and not a conglomeration of ideas gleaned from a gossip group. If a person has evidence to dispel the research, I have no problem with it.

Thank you Peggy.

So, you are keeping the rat's rectum all to yourself?

OMG, I can't stop laughing. I opened this up at work and spit out a mouthful of coffee all over my keyboard!!!

What happened with this list?
http://www3.telus.net/k9/dnatestlist.html

So, you are keeping the rat's rectum all to yourself?[/quote]
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Yup, you use them to make s$%t- kebabs. Oops meant to say shish kebabs. You know pineapple, capsicum, rectum. Pineapple, capsicum, rectum. Cook on the Barbeque. Serve with a side salad and maybe some nuts.

Why don't you go and hunt some Kangaroos to add to the recipe?

Don't need to, we have them in our street.