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Easti-Westi

Please advise if there is anything that I can do to correct this situation in a 3.5 month old puppy that is all there except for this. TIA

Re: Easti-Westi

If your puppy started with a correct front and comes from a family with good fronts, you probably just need to give him time. They do go through growth phases and most will come out of this phase IF they started out correct.
Julia

Re: Easti-Westi

Thanks Julia, he did start out correct and has a wonderfull front, I sure hope he comes out of it!

Re: Easti-Westi

He probably did not start out correctly. Its been my experience over years this does not correct itself. Upon evaluation at 8 weeks there is a way you can check for this aside from just watching the puppy move.

Re: Easti-Westi

Not always...I have had several males from a particular line that corrected as they got older and filled out. My last CH male was eastie/westie until he was close to 18 mos and his chest filled in. Now, I will say, he did not move east/west...he was clean moving. He just tended to stand that way until he matured.

My best advice would be for you to contact your mentor/the puppies breeder and discuss it with them. They will know how their dogs mature.

Male puppies can go through some pretty awful stages...you will need to be patient.

Re: Easti-Westi

I'd wait to see once his chest drops, most often I've found little fuglies at 4-7 months disappear with time, patience and a temporary blindfold.

Re: Easti-Westi

3.5 months is very young to be worried about whether or not the puppy will be easti-westi as an adult dog. I have a male who at 8 week evaluation did not stand easti-westi, but as he got to be about 8-9 months he would stand that way. He moved good coming and going, but like the other poster wrote, he would stand easti-westi. Now he is 3 years and he does not stand easti-westi anymore. In fact his entire front is more correct when he self stacks even with his front leg placement right under his body.

If your pup was square at the 8 week eval., as your pup matures his chest will drop and it will push his legs out and turn his paws to correct his front. Good Luck it is a long haul.

Re: Easti-Westi

Thank you for all the helpfull info! I will put my blinders on and fill myself with patience!

Re: Easti-Westi

The other thing that people need to realize is, as a dog moves, the tendency is for the front legs to rotate inward a bit on the move. As Quentin LaHamme pointed out in his structure and movement seminars, a dog that is straight up and down "true" in the front STANDING will be slightly rotated inward or pigeon toed on the move. So a little bit of outward rotation is fine and anatomically correct.
I agree with the chest dropping and filling out theory, it does tend to straighten out the front leg rotation that many dogs have.
I had a dog that was markedly eastie-westie as a youngster, I had to present him to the judge in a 3/4 profile so they wouldn't see it! By the time he reached about 20 months, it was gone, he was "normal" and he became a champion. Do not give up on this puppy, he has a long way to go and a lot of changes to go through before you make any decisions on him!

Re: Easti-Westi

Robin can you explain what "3/4 profile" is?

Thanks.

Re: Easti-Westi

are you kidding me????????????

Robin
So a little bit of outward rotation is fine and anatomically correct.

Re: Easti-Westi

Yes, in a relaxed standing position (not hand-stacked), study the dogs that are a tiny bit rotated out (most dogs are a tiny bit!). On a trot, all dogs will rotate their carpus a bit medially, and each front foot will land straight. Watch the dog coming straight towards you, the dog that is straight up and down in a relaxed stand, when he/she moves, you will see the carpus (wrist) rotate in medially a bit as the foot hits the ground and the dog will appear slightly pigeon-toed.
We are talking minor variations here, a profoundly eastie-westie dog whose chest has dropped, filled out, and the dog is mature is probably not going to change. Puppies usually do grow out of this.
When I mentioned presenting with a 3/4 angle, you do not want to present the eastie-westie dog straight on to the judge, as it will draw attention to it. Present that dog slightly turned away from the judge so he/she is seeing a 3/4 profile, part of the side of the dog rather than just the chest straight on.

Re: Easti-Westi

I've never seen easty-westy change in the dogs I bred. I saw it in my breedings twice, a girl and then a boy. I placed him at 12 mo. when it progressed a little more. I couldn't find another thing wrong with him.

That doesn't mean it can't change but I doubt it.

Re: Easti-Westi

I have had eastie/westie problems in several litters. As 6-8 week old puppies, you can stack them so their feet appear to be straight. That is a good way to fool yourself. What is most telling is how the legs/paws hang when they are not touching the ground. If you have the puppy either standing or sitting and you lift his front off the ground, you will see how they are naturally. A truly eastie/westie puppy's feet will tend outward when the puppy's front is suspended.

Re: Easti-Westi

Robin
The other thing that people need to realize is, as a dog moves, the tendency is for the front legs to rotate inward a bit on the move. As Quentin LaHamme pointed out in his structure and movement seminars, a dog that is straight up and down "true" in the front STANDING will be slightly rotated inward or pigeon toed on the move. So a little bit of outward rotation is fine and anatomically correct.


In the old days we had Quentin LaHamme and Rachael Page Elliott to teach us newbies the nuances of structure. We were really fortunate to have these then old timers who had spent years experiencing the sport of dogs in a way that is available to few people today.

Quentin LaHamme was a wizard at looking at a dog standing and telling you how he was going to move. He was never wrong. In his two day seminares he explained every detail of a dog and painstakingly listened to and answered his audiance's questions. Regarding the above post, he explained and proved to us that a natural, relaxed stand for a dog could show him looking slightly east-west and equated this to the relaxed stand of us humans. He said that few of us stand for any period of time with our feet perfectly straight ahead and that we ourselves usually stand a little east-west, too. If a dog moves E/W that's a different issue than a dog that stands slightly E/W. Robin must have sat in on the same seminares.

Re: Easti-Westi

The most successful sprinters naturally stand slightly toed in.