What makes a strong bitch line? Why does the males are not as strong? Is it lack of type? I've been puzzled by this for a long time. Just curious. Be nice please.

This is a good question, and I hope it starts some good discussion. I think it's just how pedigrees go together and not collide...that's the fun of breeding, you get to create art out of life!
Having bought my foundation bitch from a kennel known for it's strong bitch lines (Sailin Labradors, which was bred on Briary, another strong bitch line), I feel I can contribute here.
Beth Davis of Sailin Labradors told me once that her bitches typically produced really nice males. This was my experience with my foundation bitch, Lilac, who I bought from her in 1988. No matter who I bred her to, she consistently produced better males than bitches, but I was looking to keep a nice bitch out of my litters. I took this bitch's son, Alex (Ch. Sweetwater's Fullmoon Fortune, who I kept under protest as a puppy but never regretted it) and bred him with a nice Lilac grandaughter, Otter. Bingo! I got Fiona, Sweetwater's Luna Fiona, out of that and she became my second foundation bitch, linebred on Lilac.
Fiona's breeding history is that SHE has also consistently produced better males than females, but when THOSE get have been bred, they have produce strongly.
If you have a strong bitch line AND a strong stud dog line, sometimes it works, but sometimes it clashes!
So I think it just depends....I was lucky and got what I wanted, and went forward with it.
There are also prepotent stud dogs, that no matter who they are bred to, they just stamp their type. Receiver comes to mind, also Arnold. Some pedigrees just "nick" better with others, that's where mentorship and experience come in to help your make your decisions.
If you are lucky enough to have a strong bitch line, listen to what your breeder or other experienced breeders are telling you, and you will be successful!
Keep in mind also that some individuals are anomalies in their breed or in their pedigrees. They may have every attibute you want to see in a stud dog or brood bitch, but they may be unable to produce it, it does happen!

Tabatha comes to mind. Carols bitch line.

I think we are talking about a bitch with dominant traits. I suppose they could be good traits or bad traits. Of course, good traits are what breeders are looking for. When this bitch passes these dominant traits to her get, she "reproduces" herself and her puppies resemble her. The breeder with an excellent eye can recognize the puppy that has the desired traits and will carry on the line that way.

A strong bitch line, only needs semen , preferably from a dog that offers little or nothing. I read these posts about this stud dog and that one on this forum, and I am amazed that young breeders think that the strength comes from the stud dog. You must develope your bitch line, then let the strength of their pedigree give you what you need, it is NOT the stud dog! I like to make a pedigree that can go it alone, then find an outcross dog that offers nothing.

Aren't the male puppies usually the better in most litters?

back in 1994 I bought a bitch pup that came from "Gunner" west coast Cederwood lines.
I can line up photos of now 5 generations of girls and you can see the strong resemblance in looks and body structure, no matter what out cross we used.

BTW. Summer is still alive, she now spends her life sleeping on the couch with her tennis ball still in her mouth.

Thanks for the input Robin.
Yes Tabatha's girls come to mind when taking about strong bitch lines. Then, there are lines that would produce mostly good males, and then other lines would produce mostly good females? Would they commonly pass it through the "weak" sex?

I have to disagree with the comment about young breeders needing to have a great bitch line and to not be concerned with the males. I started off with a very average bitch and made sure that every litter, every generation I bred her to the very best stud dog I could find. I didn't even worry about linebreeding, I just tried to always breed to great. It may have taken 25 years but it worked. Everyone has to start somewhere. :)

I've always thought a strong bitch line meant bitches who are great producers. But it does make sense that some lines have qualities that make for a better bitch and vice versa.

And that is exactly what I was talking about, you can "breed up" with a mediocre bitch IF you have a lifetime to do it.
The current generation of breeders want success in less than 5 years time.
Read the book folks. Reaching for the Stars.

When looking for a good stud dog that fits your girl, there is alot to be said and gained from that stud dog to have its mother come from a strong bitch line.
Yes, one can improve their bitch line, even strengthen it through judicious choices of stud dogs who carry strong bottom bitch line. With alot of research and a little luck it is very doable.

I am also going to disagree with the above poster that a strong bitch line only needs semen, preferably from a dog that offers little or nothing. That is just not how genetics work, every breeding ALWAYS bring something in to the mix from both sides.I personally feel you will weaken your pedigrees and ultimately change phenotype following this philosophy.

I think in most instances you will find behind every great stud dog a very strong dam line. It is advisable to pay close attention to both sides of the pedigree. I, personally, love to see a pedigree that is filled with females that I have seen and known who are lovely representatives of the breed. Gloria, Tammy and Piper are but a few of those girls who have had enormous influence through their sons and there are so many others.

I think a bitch from a strong bitch line could be bred to just about anything and produce well, not that you would want to do that. I agree that you can improve on a mediocre bitch and create a good bitch line, but you save yourself years of work by getting the best puppy you can to start out with. On the down side of that you will never know what it took to create that bitch line you bought. Only those with a good eye and a good mentor can take that puppy and improve on her by going to the right studs. The other part of that is knowing which puppy to keep.

There are 2 different opinions about what a strong bitch line is.
1.- A line of bitches that produces good bitches consistently, but you don't see the boys winning/producing so much.
2.- A bitch that has produced good, even from different studs and on different litters. I call this a good producer, not a strong line bitch.
My question is about option #1.

This is reply to "puzzled", someone who is completely focused on thier bitch line, might not completely care what males might be produced in a litter. They may look at the stud as a means to and end to improve on a point, while not losing what they have. They may be completely focused on breeding that "perfect Bitch".
As to #2, It is a rare, and I do mean a rare dog or Bitch in this case, who is a "good producer" that does not have a strong bitch line behind them. Just looking at a pedigree without personal knowledge of it, you could be under estimating what there is quality wise, or worse yet, not seeing the "complete total picture" or plan that the breeder was trying to strive for.

Besides Tabatha, what other well established strong bitches lines are out there?

I would put more weight with a small kennel that might breed once or twice a year and consistently produces the type of dog that pleases you. If someone had 100+ puppies a year from which to pick, of course they are going to be able to find several that look alike.

Question? Where does the sire get the "x" chromosome he passes on to his get?

Think about it carefully before you answer.

The X chromosome comes from his Dam. This my dear friends, is why looking at Bitch lines is so critical.

Are you still thinking?

The "y" chromosome comes from his Sire and the X comes from his dam. You need to study it from that perspective.

and your point is???

The point being - that is why the bitch line is important. I was helping those less educated understand a point. What was your point?

Dogs have 78 chromosomes in 39 pairs. This x y idea is very attractive as it seems to be such a neat and simple answer. Problem is, you would have to believe that everything you see in the bitch is due to only 1 of the 78 chromosomes. If you think about that, you have to know that does not make sense. That single chromosome cannot have such overwhelming influence.

It takes 2...........breed quality to quality.